Is there such a thing as necessary evil? China's population

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Hi there,

I was thinking about how wonderful it would be if everyone was Catholic and practiced NFP. I believe that morals are objective and I like to contemplate on my beliefs a lot. But then a discussion I had about China made me wonder what would happen and what the world would be like if they followed and practiced the Church’s truths on family and NFP. Surely I believe the communist government and its restrictions on the population are an awful, horrible evil. But I can’t imagine what the world would be like if that wasn’t the case. I am thankful that we have the opportunity to practice this aspect of our religion, but at the same time I feel a small piece of confusion and/or guilt when I think of the Chinese and their 1 child only rule. On some level I believe that “overpopulation” is blown out of proportion and is probably not a problem just a government ploy, on another level I wonder if it really should be a concern.

The best I can rectify this to our world view is that if the people were free then innovation would flourish and solutions would come about through a free market and economy. But since they are under a communistic government they have never had such opportunities to find real solutions to their high population. On the other hand, I wonder if this sort of population control is a necessary evil for this fallen world.🤷

What do you guys think?
 
One of the principles behind Catholic moral theology is that we cannot do evil in order to achieve good. In Romans someone says “let us do evil so that good may come.” St Paul replies that their condemnation is deserved. Rom 3:8

If we do bad things to stop evil we become to better than they are and we become above the law thinking we know right from wrong. We make ourself God.
I posted this in another thread BTW
 
China is now and is expecting it to grow into a real problem, the lack of children to take care of the elderly. The moms and dads in China who had one child, or in some special cases two, now face the task of retirement in dignity with out children to care for them. A family of one can be a real obstical to the growth of the nation. China is actually over i billion now, it could have been over 2 billion and if it was the elderly problem wouldn;t be such a burden to them. The world prospered when we had bif families. My great graand father had twelve healthy and prosperous children, my grand father had twelve children and eleven lived to fight in the second world war and come home to start families and die a good catholic death.
My parents only had five of us kids who are doing the American Dream thing. So are our three daughters. My wife and I don’t expect much help from our three daughters because they have another set of parents to aid also. Three isn’t enought, but we will got buy because in America it is easier to get buy. My wife and I got used to the rhythm method and chose to stop at 3 !! The more children the more milk is needed, the more cows, the more cow hands, the more daries, the more shops the more employee, the more children, the more schools the more priests , the more nuns are needed, God 's plan is everylasting !!
With Catholic abstaince and the Catholic Rhythm System, Europe grew and so did America. God must love the Chinese, he sure made a lot of them, then so do I.
:):):):):)🙂
 
Michael1985 said:
One of the principles behind Catholic moral theology is that we cannot do evil in order to achieve good. In Romans someone says “let us do evil so that good may come.” St Paul replies that their condemnation is deserved. Rom 3:8

If we do bad things to stop evil we become to better than they are and we become above the law thinking we know right from wrong. We make ourself God.
I posted this in another thread BTW
Click to expand...
I agree with that, clearly the entire OT tells us this. But what if you are in a country where this is the law? What do you do?
 
We could give each human being on earth 1,000 square feet of land, all their own. Doing that, all the population of the earth would fit into the state of Texas, leaving all the rest the planet void of human life.

Overpopulation is such a myth.
 
kage_ar said:
We could give each human being on earth 1,000 square feet of land, all their own. Doing that, all the population of the earth would fit into the state of Texas, leaving all the rest the planet void of human life.

Overpopulation is such a myth.
Click to expand...
Don’t quote me, I just heard, that America could hold and support 4 billion people, togetherness!!
 
Jesuslives said:
I agree with that, clearly the entire OT tells us this. But what if you are in a country where this is the law? What do you do?
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You make a chose, to live or die, or for your hidden child to live or die;
Does the choice to live over shadow the evil to have only one child?
I feel that God wants us to live to love honor and obey Him and be happy forever in heaven.
Can you be happy and give God the love and honor you want and chose birth control to preserve your life. The Chinese government could teach them abstannce the rhythm method. :):):):):):)🙂
 
Jesuslives said:
Hi there,

I was thinking about how wonderful it would be if everyone was Catholic and practiced NFP. I believe that morals are objective and I like to contemplate on my beliefs a lot. But then a discussion I had about China made me wonder what would happen and what the world would be like if they followed and practiced the Church’s truths on family and NFP. Surely I believe the communist government and its restrictions on the population are an awful, horrible evil. But I can’t imagine what the world would be like if that wasn’t the case. I am thankful that we have the opportunity to practice this aspect of our religion, but at the same time I feel a small piece of confusion and/or guilt when I think of the Chinese and their 1 child only rule. On some level I believe that “overpopulation” is blown out of proportion and is probably not a problem just a government ploy, on another level I wonder if it really should be a concern.

The best I can rectify this to our world view is that if the people were free then innovation would flourish and solutions would come about through a free market and economy. But since they are under a communistic government they have never had such opportunities to find real solutions to their high population. On the other hand, I wonder if this sort of population control is a necessary evil for this fallen world.🤷

What do you guys think?
Click to expand...
I agree, but maybe we should just continue with the plan of God and let Him sort out the detains after Historically, we have seen the horrible wars and terror in the world that in God’s good plan has brought us to where are now, I want to continue with God’s master plan, whatever it is, I believe it will be for the best.
Are we talking about birth-control, that’s what I against anyway.
:):):):):):)🙂
 
The Chinese law does not mandate that they must use birth control; it only mandates that they can’t have more than one child (or two, if they live in a rural area).

A combination of abstinence and natural family planning can achieve the same result.
 
jmcrae said:
The Chinese law does not mandate that they must use birth control; it only mandates that they can’t have more than one child (or two, if they live in a rural area).

A combination of abstinence and natural family planning can achieve the same result.
Click to expand...
I think you are missing the point. First, the government’s laws are in opposition to the Catholic teaching about marriage. The point of NFP is to be OPEN to the possibility of God’s will and conception at all times. That government practices forced abortions so the only real option is abstinence, especially if a woman is very irregular and cannot predict ovulation. In that case, why get married?
 
Jesuslives said:
I think you are missing the point. First, the government’s laws are in opposition to the Catholic teaching about marriage. The point of NFP is to be OPEN to the possibility of God’s will and conception at all times. That government practices forced abortions so the only real option is abstinence, especially if a woman is very irregular and cannot predict ovulation. In that case, why get married?
Click to expand...
I agree with your second point. But I think your first point could be debated, if you mean it the way I am understanding it. It could be argued that a real problem with local over-population would be a valid reason to use NFP to maintain a small family.
 
Overpopulation is an interesting topic.

While physically there is enough room on the planet for more people, there already isn’t enough room to provide everyone with the kind of lifestyle Westerners enjoy.

We would need several Earths for every single person living today to have the kind of lifestyle we in the West have.

There are online calculators that attempt to measure just how many planets your lifestyle would require. They do this by calculating the amount of area needed to support an activity. For example if you eat meat, it would take into account the amount of land, water, energy and other resources needed to raise the animals you get meat from.

According to this quiz earthday.net/footprint/flash.html my lifestyle would require 4.4 planet earths if everyone currently alive were to have the same way of life.
 
Bluegoat said:
I agree with your second point. But I think your first point could be debated, if you mean it the way I am understanding it. It could be argued that a real problem with local over-population would be a valid reason to use NFP to maintain a small family.
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I really don’t believe NFP is meant for small families.
 
rayne89 said:
Do you mean NFP should not be used to achieve small families or can not be used to achieve small families?
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Apparently you missed the thread “Use NFP it doesn’t work”

I think achieving small families with NFP is the exception.
 
Jesuslives said:
Apparently you missed the thread “Use NFP it doesn’t work”

I think achieving small families with NFP is the exception.
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This I guess my family is exceptional.😃 We have one child who will be 14 in the fall. I have a heart problem that makes pregnancy dangerous, as in fatal. Maybe when your life is on line you stick to the NFP rules a bit more carefully.😉
 
rayne89 said:
This I guess my family is exceptional.😃 We have one child who will be 14 in the fall. I have a heart problem that makes pregnancy dangerous, as in fatal. Maybe when your life is on line you stick to the NFP rules a bit more carefully.😉
Click to expand...
Probably true. Sorry for your illness, but I am glad to see you effectively avoided pregnancy, it gives me more confidence for when I get married and want to practice it.
 
kage_ar said:
We could give each human being on earth 1,000 square feet of land, all their own. Doing that, all the population of the earth would fit into the state of Texas, leaving all the rest the planet void of human life.

Overpopulation is such a myth.
Click to expand...
Or to put it another way, 1,000 square feet is basically a square 10 yards by 10 yards. Hmmm. Hardly big enough to park my Hummers.
 
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