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graceandglory
Guest
That is surely true. I live at the end of the Oregon Trail. Most of my life has been in homes less than a dozen years old.
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kookieduck
Guest
Luke 24:39 “Look at my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me and see, because a ghost does not have flesh and bones as you can see I have.” (The New American Bible Saint Joseph Edition)
Luke 24:39 “See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself; handle me and see; for a spirit has not flesh and bones as you see that I have.” (Ignatius The Holy Bible RSVCE)
CCC 643 and 645 both mention the above saying Jesus also ate and drank - something a ghost could not do.
Those statements above compel me to admit that ghosts do exist and must sometimes be seen or felt otherwise Jesus might have said: There is no such thing as a ghost/spirit being physically seen. Instead, he assured them he was not a ghost. This does not mean that I believe we should try to contact them or that I believe that the reality shows mentioned here have contacted any either.
Luke 24:39 “See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself; handle me and see; for a spirit has not flesh and bones as you see that I have.” (Ignatius The Holy Bible RSVCE)
CCC 643 and 645 both mention the above saying Jesus also ate and drank - something a ghost could not do.
Those statements above compel me to admit that ghosts do exist and must sometimes be seen or felt otherwise Jesus might have said: There is no such thing as a ghost/spirit being physically seen. Instead, he assured them he was not a ghost. This does not mean that I believe we should try to contact them or that I believe that the reality shows mentioned here have contacted any either.
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Fairwinds
Guest
I’m disgusted by the way the paranormal proponents have hijacked places where Americans have fallen in battle to promote their beliefs.
F (USN ret.)
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styrgwillidar
Guest
Well, I have some fellow catholic neighbors who investigate the paranormal. In all their years of investigating ‘ghost’ appearances they have never found one they could not find an earthly explanation for.
That said, I live in neighborhood with all the houses built in ~2001. Several folks have reported seeing ghosts in their houses. One of my next door neighbors only spent one night in the house. He approached me the next morning and asked if the previous occupants had ever said anything 'unsual about the house". Answer was no- original owner was there 5 years and the first renter was there about 5 years and neither every said anything. He said he’d seen strange shadows and shapes, showed me a picture of a daylight picture of the outside of the house on his iPhone which had a bright blur under the eaves. He said his pastor told him it was a demon. He’d just gotten two dobermans that morning due to the demon. (Ok, I have no idea how canines have the ability to combat or wardoff a supernatural evil…) He lost $4,000 for rent and deposit and he never stayed another night. Dogs were there for about 10 days until he found a new place though. Next family has been there 2 years and never mentioned anything- I guess either their boxers are better at spiritual warfare or demons don’t like the noise of three little boys. I think one’s own preconceptions have a lot to do with how ‘bumps’ in the night, chills and shadows are interpreted.
I kind of think that if the ghosts are folks in purgatory it would make more sense that they are from the future. That is, folks having to go back and see the pain they had caused others to understand and experience true remorse. Not a catholic teaching at all, just pure speculation on my part.
That said, I live in neighborhood with all the houses built in ~2001. Several folks have reported seeing ghosts in their houses. One of my next door neighbors only spent one night in the house. He approached me the next morning and asked if the previous occupants had ever said anything 'unsual about the house". Answer was no- original owner was there 5 years and the first renter was there about 5 years and neither every said anything. He said he’d seen strange shadows and shapes, showed me a picture of a daylight picture of the outside of the house on his iPhone which had a bright blur under the eaves. He said his pastor told him it was a demon. He’d just gotten two dobermans that morning due to the demon. (Ok, I have no idea how canines have the ability to combat or wardoff a supernatural evil…) He lost $4,000 for rent and deposit and he never stayed another night. Dogs were there for about 10 days until he found a new place though. Next family has been there 2 years and never mentioned anything- I guess either their boxers are better at spiritual warfare or demons don’t like the noise of three little boys. I think one’s own preconceptions have a lot to do with how ‘bumps’ in the night, chills and shadows are interpreted.
I kind of think that if the ghosts are folks in purgatory it would make more sense that they are from the future. That is, folks having to go back and see the pain they had caused others to understand and experience true remorse. Not a catholic teaching at all, just pure speculation on my part.
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Fairwinds
Guest
ghosts and retrievers don’t get along; hounds are a different matter.
was an ancient indian burial ground involved?
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styrgwillidar
Guest
No, no ancient burial ground or anything like that. Development is recent enough that state regs combined with being in a major metropolitan area that it has been well surveyed, searched for archeological sites in prior years and nothing was stumbled upon or dug up during development.
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Fairwinds
Guest
dunno what to say. I hear there’s some kids with a mystery machine and a dog who can help.
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TheRealJuliane
Guest
I think those “ghost-hunting” shows are pure fraud. “Ooooh, I felt a cold chill!! Did you feel that?” “Yeah!” “Use the magno-meter and see if there’s activity!” 
Then they make some recording and play it back so you can hear some whispering or something. Then they go into a dark room and someone screams that they’ve been touched by something. Repeat every week. Oh, and the night-vision cameras make everyone’s eyes look super-creepy. :yawn: It’s all set up and produced, and not even halfway plausible.
The premise behind these shows is that some horrible event has trapped the spirits of people between our world and the next, that they are unable to be free because of something that’s happened to them here. A sort of “Pinterest” of souls, if you will. But of course, we know that there is no trapping a soul - we are all judged by God immediately after we die. Then, if we need purgatory, we go there. If THIS were purgatory, then we’d all be there. There are no souls sent back here after judgment.
If people do see things, there could be any number of causes, from hallucinations to demons to people in purgatory that God has allowed to be seen for some reason. But whatever they are, they are NOT trapped souls, and they are not crying out for help in passing on.
Then they make some recording and play it back so you can hear some whispering or something. Then they go into a dark room and someone screams that they’ve been touched by something. Repeat every week. Oh, and the night-vision cameras make everyone’s eyes look super-creepy. :yawn: It’s all set up and produced, and not even halfway plausible.The premise behind these shows is that some horrible event has trapped the spirits of people between our world and the next, that they are unable to be free because of something that’s happened to them here. A sort of “Pinterest” of souls, if you will. But of course, we know that there is no trapping a soul - we are all judged by God immediately after we die. Then, if we need purgatory, we go there. If THIS were purgatory, then we’d all be there. There are no souls sent back here after judgment.
If people do see things, there could be any number of causes, from hallucinations to demons to people in purgatory that God has allowed to be seen for some reason. But whatever they are, they are NOT trapped souls, and they are not crying out for help in passing on.
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GEddie
Guest
Pinterest???I think those “ghost-hunting” shows are pure fraud. “Ooooh, I felt a cold chill!! Did you feel that?” “Yeah!” “Use the magno-meter and see if there’s activity!”
The premise behind these shows is that some horrible event has trapped the spirits of people between our world and the next, that they are unable to be free because of something that’s happened to them here. A sort of “Pinterest” of souls, if you will. But of course, we know that there is no trapping a soul - we are all judged by God immediately after we die. Then, if we need purgatory, we go there. If THIS were purgatory, then we’d all be there. There are no souls sent back here after judgment.
If people do see things, there could be any number of causes, from hallucinations to demons to people in purgatory that God has allowed to be seen for some reason. But whatever they are, they are NOT trapped souls, and they are not crying out for help in passing on.
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dshix
Guest
Actually, there is a slight inaccuracy here. Souls of persons in Purgatory are capable of making small manifestations on earth, with the permission of God, as a way of asking for prayers. My family experienced minor manifestations from my grandfather for nigh on 20 years before we realized it was him and had masses said for him.
I agree that the ghosthunter shows are very likely fake, but to say that ghosts do not do ANYTHING on earth at all is false.
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styrgwillidar
Guest
Yeah, I’ve heard of them. I think they are about as real as any other ‘ghost hunter’. As you can tell from my tone, I’m a skeptic on the subject.
Interesting in having a neighbor bring something up like that on a first meeting. His Church seemed to be one of the non-denominational fundamentalist variety, at least that was my impression. Since I am the original owner of my house I had known the other occupants before him pretty well. I think they probably saw the same kind of shadows/shapes and attributed them (probably rightly) to non-paranormal causes. Reflected lights from cars down the road or on the next street over etc. Again I think people tend to have an inclination to attribute things to either natural or paranormal, a kind of bias.
Since I didn’t see what he did (other than his iPhone and I’m not enough of a tech to know whether it was just some kind of reflected light, which is what I think, or something else) I can’t really know. I do know the other occupants never mentioned anything.
My ghost hunting neighbor was disappointed in that they offered to assist in determining if there were natural causes. Do things like have cars with various types of lights drive up and down nearby streets, try and duplicate the iPhone picture, but the individual didn’t want to do that.
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fredystairs
Guest
This passage from the Old Testament would seem to indicate that there are ghosts since Saul consulted Samuel after Samuel had died:
Saul Consults a Medium
3 Now Samuel had died, and all Israel had mourned for him and buried him in Ramah, his own city. Saul had expelled the mediums and the wizards from the land. 4 The Philistines assembled, and came and encamped at Shunem. Saul gathered all Israel, and they encamped at Gilboa. 5 When Saul saw the army of the Philistines, he was afraid, and his heart trembled greatly. 6 When Saul inquired of the Lord, the Lord did not answer him, not by dreams, or by Urim, or by prophets. 7 Then Saul said to his servants, “Seek out for me a woman who is a medium, so that I may go to her and inquire of her.” His servants said to him, “There is a medium at Endor.”
8 So Saul disguised himself and put on other clothes and went there, he and two men with him. They came to the woman by night. And he said, “Consult a spirit for me, and bring up for me the one whom I name to you.” 9 The woman said to him, “Surely you know what Saul has done, how he has cut off the mediums and the wizards from the land. Why then are you laying a snare for my life to bring about my death?” 10 But Saul swore to her by the Lord, “As the Lord lives, no punishment shall come upon you for this thing.” 11 Then the woman said, “Whom shall I bring up for you?” He answered, “Bring up Samuel for me.” 12 When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice; and the woman said to Saul, “Why have you deceived me? You are Saul!” 13 The king said to her, “Have no fear; what do you see?” The woman said to Saul, “I see a divine being[a] coming up out of the ground.” 14 He said to her, “What is his appearance?” She said, “An old man is coming up; he is wrapped in a robe.” So Saul knew that it was Samuel, and he bowed with his face to the ground, and did obeisance.
15 Then Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?” Saul answered, “I am in great distress, for the Philistines are warring against me, and God has turned away from me and answers me no more, either by prophets or by dreams; so I have summoned you to tell me what I should do.” 16 Samuel said, “Why then do you ask me, since the Lord has turned from you and become your enemy? 17 The Lord has done to you just as he spoke by me; for the Lord has torn the kingdom out of your hand, and given it to your neighbor, David. 18 Because you did not obey the voice of the Lord, and did not carry out his fierce wrath against Amalek, therefore the Lord has done this thing to you today. 19 Moreover the Lord will give Israel along with you into the hands of the Philistines; and tomorrow you and your sons shall be with me; the Lord will also give the army of Israel into the hands of the Philistines.”
1 Samuel 28:3-18
Saul Consults a Medium
3 Now Samuel had died, and all Israel had mourned for him and buried him in Ramah, his own city. Saul had expelled the mediums and the wizards from the land. 4 The Philistines assembled, and came and encamped at Shunem. Saul gathered all Israel, and they encamped at Gilboa. 5 When Saul saw the army of the Philistines, he was afraid, and his heart trembled greatly. 6 When Saul inquired of the Lord, the Lord did not answer him, not by dreams, or by Urim, or by prophets. 7 Then Saul said to his servants, “Seek out for me a woman who is a medium, so that I may go to her and inquire of her.” His servants said to him, “There is a medium at Endor.”
8 So Saul disguised himself and put on other clothes and went there, he and two men with him. They came to the woman by night. And he said, “Consult a spirit for me, and bring up for me the one whom I name to you.” 9 The woman said to him, “Surely you know what Saul has done, how he has cut off the mediums and the wizards from the land. Why then are you laying a snare for my life to bring about my death?” 10 But Saul swore to her by the Lord, “As the Lord lives, no punishment shall come upon you for this thing.” 11 Then the woman said, “Whom shall I bring up for you?” He answered, “Bring up Samuel for me.” 12 When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice; and the woman said to Saul, “Why have you deceived me? You are Saul!” 13 The king said to her, “Have no fear; what do you see?” The woman said to Saul, “I see a divine being[a] coming up out of the ground.” 14 He said to her, “What is his appearance?” She said, “An old man is coming up; he is wrapped in a robe.” So Saul knew that it was Samuel, and he bowed with his face to the ground, and did obeisance.
15 Then Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?” Saul answered, “I am in great distress, for the Philistines are warring against me, and God has turned away from me and answers me no more, either by prophets or by dreams; so I have summoned you to tell me what I should do.” 16 Samuel said, “Why then do you ask me, since the Lord has turned from you and become your enemy? 17 The Lord has done to you just as he spoke by me; for the Lord has torn the kingdom out of your hand, and given it to your neighbor, David. 18 Because you did not obey the voice of the Lord, and did not carry out his fierce wrath against Amalek, therefore the Lord has done this thing to you today. 19 Moreover the Lord will give Israel along with you into the hands of the Philistines; and tomorrow you and your sons shall be with me; the Lord will also give the army of Israel into the hands of the Philistines.”
1 Samuel 28:3-18
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Gordon_Sims
Guest
I’m fairly skeptical and tend not to believe 99+% of the ghost stories others tell me. That being said, I’ve had objects thrown at me in an empty house. My best friend worked at an old bed & breakfast and would regularly see what appeared to be the ghost of a young boy. I saw the same little boy twice while visiting my friend at work and was later with him when he was able to correctly pick out the boy whose ghost was allegedly haunting the place from a 70-year-old, grade school class picture. At work one morning a coworker called me over the intercom. I had a lengthy conversation with her before finding out I was the only one in the building. Another time I was stocking supplies. I was the only person in that entire half of the building. The last thing I loaded on the cart I was using was a case of staples. When I unloaded the cart, the staples were missing. I figured I was mistaken, went back to the stock room, grabbed another case and returned to our group’s supply room. When I got there, the first case of staples I’d grabbed was sitting open on the main table. All the boxes of staples were arranged in a pattern in the middle of the table.
There are a few other things I could bring up but these are some of the more inexplicable ones. Each place where these things occurred were reputed to be haunted. I am absolutely certain that the buildings were empty or nobody was in the area I was in in the situations I described. I can’t say definitively that these things were due to ghosts, but at the same time nobody has ever been able to provide me with a plausible explanation for any of these things. I will say that when I was at my most agnostic, some of these occurrences I dealt with helped prevent me from falling further into disbelief, simply because they were, to me, clear signs of something existing beyond or outside of the physical world.
There are a few other things I could bring up but these are some of the more inexplicable ones. Each place where these things occurred were reputed to be haunted. I am absolutely certain that the buildings were empty or nobody was in the area I was in in the situations I described. I can’t say definitively that these things were due to ghosts, but at the same time nobody has ever been able to provide me with a plausible explanation for any of these things. I will say that when I was at my most agnostic, some of these occurrences I dealt with helped prevent me from falling further into disbelief, simply because they were, to me, clear signs of something existing beyond or outside of the physical world.
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mt_gooseberry
Guest
It makes me very uncomfortable knowing how many people (especially Catholics) flippantly dismiss and deny the supernatural. The supernatural is real. It can be Good or Evil. Everytime you attend a Mass, you are experiencing the supernatural. Why do you so doubt that some hauntings are real? Demons often pass themselves off as ghosts. Dismissing all hauntings and ghosts is dangerous. The devil wants us to dismiss him. You can’t fight what you don’t believe in. And there is no scientific proof that God, angels, etc. exist, so it is ridiculous to say that we shouldn’t believe in ghosts because there is no scientific evidence for their existence when we worship something for which there is no scientific evidence!
Yesterday on “Go Ask Your Father” on Relevant Radio someone asked about ghosts. The answer was that there is no denying the existence of supernatural phenomena, including that attributed to ghosts. It is most likely due to souls in purgatory or the demonic. If one is experiencing such phenomena, one should contact a faithful priest and insist on assistance. If one cannot find a local priest willing to help, one should seek help elsewhere within the Catholic church, but under no circumstances should one try to engage the phenomena by on your own or with the help of any non-Catholic assistance (psychics, Wiccans, etc.)
Yesterday on “Go Ask Your Father” on Relevant Radio someone asked about ghosts. The answer was that there is no denying the existence of supernatural phenomena, including that attributed to ghosts. It is most likely due to souls in purgatory or the demonic. If one is experiencing such phenomena, one should contact a faithful priest and insist on assistance. If one cannot find a local priest willing to help, one should seek help elsewhere within the Catholic church, but under no circumstances should one try to engage the phenomena by on your own or with the help of any non-Catholic assistance (psychics, Wiccans, etc.)
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Rose71
Guest
that’s something of an exageration! I have lived in England all my life and never seen one.My mum used to help out cleaning and answering Mass at a Passionist community and she heard a story of a Passionist who died and his robes were put out ready to go on the next bonfire. A few of the priests actually saw the dead priest walking out towards the place where the fires were lit to burn rubbish and when they confided in one another, they decided to take a last look at his robes…and found a Mass request in his pocket that he’s never said before he died. They said the Mass for him and never saw him again!
Spooky eh?!
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VeritasLuxMea
Guest
OK. Why are we “worshiping something for which there is no scientific evidence”?
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kookieduck
Guest
Faith: evidence of things not seen; substance of things hoped for.
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VeritasLuxMea
Guest
Yeah, OK, almost every religion in the world (and there are hundreds) have a faith component.Faith: evidence of things not seen; substance of things hoped for.
So either there is a difference, somehow or other (scientifically? in some non-scientific way, but what way?) or there’s not.
If there’s not, then we’re all playing Russian Roulette with our eternal souls. Which is not impossible just because it’s not desirable, but I’m just curious how you look at the situation.
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dshix
Guest
Heh, every belief concerning religion (even atheism) requires a degree of faith.
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Kelfa28
Guest
I’ve always been extremely skeptical about anything involved in the paranormal. I have a hard time believing that ghosts are real.
I suppose it makes sense that these “beings” are souls in purgatory and are looking for prayers to move on.
I was at a women’s group at my parish the other day and the topic moved to spirits and stories of a presence felt…they were convinced it was a loved one.
I didn’t say anything but I was secretly debunking or finding very plausible explanations for every “strange” situation that was told.
I wouldn’t dare verbalize my thoughts as these women were genuinely comforted by their experiences.
I’ve never experienced any kind of presence. No cold chills, no voices or sounds, no apparitions, nor have I felt anything different or strange.
I’ve lost all four of my grandparents, all of whom I was quite close to, and my uncle…whom I was particularly close to and fond of.
I do pray for them frequently…maybe that is the reason I haven’t “seen” any of them.
I suppose it makes sense that these “beings” are souls in purgatory and are looking for prayers to move on.
I was at a women’s group at my parish the other day and the topic moved to spirits and stories of a presence felt…they were convinced it was a loved one.
I didn’t say anything but I was secretly debunking or finding very plausible explanations for every “strange” situation that was told.
I wouldn’t dare verbalize my thoughts as these women were genuinely comforted by their experiences.
I’ve never experienced any kind of presence. No cold chills, no voices or sounds, no apparitions, nor have I felt anything different or strange.
I’ve lost all four of my grandparents, all of whom I was quite close to, and my uncle…whom I was particularly close to and fond of.
I do pray for them frequently…maybe that is the reason I haven’t “seen” any of them.
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