Is these organizations Catholic

  • Thread starter Thread starter AmateurPianist
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Polish Catholic Church.
Sedevacantist Catholic

(I do notice that forum rules consider sedevacantism a not allowed topic. So if that is a problem we can confine this to just the first organization).

If they are not Catholic, then what are they?

Curious.
I remembered an article on CA about the Polish Nation Catholic Church and the Catholic Church were in reunification talks. I don’t remember hearing anything coming from it but I searched and found the article which has a very short discription of the PNCC:
We keep hearing about schisms and potential schisms. It’s nice to know that an old schism might be ending soon. Officials of the Catholic Church and the Polish National Catholic Church have been engaged in reunification talks, and this year the PNCC leadership, at its quadrennial general synod, will vote on whether to approve full communion.
The PNCC broke off from the Catholic Church about a century ago. The schism arose not out of doctrinal disputes but out of pastoral conflicts between Catholic bishops and Polish immigrants. The PNCC is one of the Old Catholic Churches of the Union of Utrecht. Its episcopate always has been recognized by Rome as in the apostolic succession, and its seven sacraments are valid. In 1996 the Old Catholic Church in Germany started to ordain women, and the PNCC terminated communion with it. PNCC leaders say they also will terminate communion with any other Old Catholic Church that tries to ordain women.
catholic.com/thisrock/1998/9802drag.asp

Sedevacantists profess to be Catholic but claim that there is no valid Pope saying that the Chair of Peter is empty. They are another group, like the PNCC, that are not in full communion with the Church and therefore cannot be said to have the fullness of the Catholic faith.

If I may ask, what sparked your interest in these two churches?

God bless you
 
They are another group, like the PNCC, that are not in full communion with the Church and therefore cannot be said to have the fullness of the Catholic faith.

If I may ask, what sparked your interest in these two churches?

God bless you
Another thread sort of prompted this question?

It was the Westboro Baptist church thread that prompted the question "Who decides what is and is not Baptist. The point was made that every other Baptist organization might claim they are not Baptist but they claim they are true Baptists and every other Baptist is false.

I happened to have known of these groups and It occurred to me that the same issue exists here. Any organization can coopt a name and there is nothing that the other organizations that use the same name can do about it.

Then it occurred to me that there are at least two possible views one can hold of Christianity as a whole. One can look at it organizationally, and from that perspective these are distinct organizations from your organization, I agree.

But one can also look at Christianity from a hierarchical view.

On the top level you have Christianity.

Then you have 3-4 children classifications: Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, and perhaps Restorationalist.

Underneath you might have the various national Orthodox churches and the major Protestant branches.

Underneath this you might have distinct Protestant organizations.

So then I asked where do these organizations fit on this hierarchical view. Don’t know for sure, but in a hierarchical sense you might have the word Catholic used for at least thre organizations under it.

I found this interesting, so I thought I would ask.
 
They are Catholic only insofar as they have valid (but illicit) Catholic Orders. They are not in full communion with the Catholic Church. They are also not considered true, particular Churches as the Orthodox are.
 
They are Catholic only insofar as they have valid (but illicit) Catholic Orders. They are not in full communion with the Catholic Church. They are also not considered true, particular Churches as the Orthodox are.
Maybe they are Catholic but not Roman Catholic?
 
Maybe they are Catholic but not Roman Catholic?
That terminology is imprecise, though. Melkite or Byzantine Catholics are Catholics, not Roman, and in full communion with the See of Peter. Only Catholics of the Western or Latin Rite are properly “Roman Catholics”, unless you intend to refer to all Catholics in communion with the See of Peter as “Roman Catholics” (I think most Eastern Catholics would take exception to that). Also, many Anglicans call themselves “Catholic, but not Roman” despite the Catholic Church not recognizing their Orders as valid.

I usually refer to bodies like the PNCC who have valid orders, but are not in communion with the Church as “Catholic splinter groups”, but that may be seen as perjorative.

However we choose to describe things, it’s rather messy. 😉
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top