Is this a credible source of reason for attending the Latin Mass?

[SunnaB16]

There is no schism.

This is false according to the ED commission iirc.

Get with the times.

Legally, there may or may not be schism.

But; the SSPX is not in union with Rome the way the FSSP and the ICRSS are. And that makes all the difference.

Get with the times?
In the event that youre not joking: ***Will the SSPX be having the Divine Mercy Devotions next Sunday?*** At the FSSP church i attend on Sundays, theres a “Jesus I trust in You” picture permanently hanging in the church. The FSSP even refers to next Sunday as “Divine Mercy Sunday” (not “Low Sunday”). Not frozen in the past! That`s sane Traditionalism.

Does the SSPX recognize Saint Faustina, Saint Pio etc?
Has the SSPX entered the 21st Century yet?
Is the SSPX still a combination of the Pharisees and Little Jack Horner?
Etc, etc, etc.

Get with the times, indeed!!!

 

[At_Trent]

Legally, there may or may not be schism.

But; the SSPX is not in union with Rome the way the FSSP and the ICRSS are. And that makes all the difference.

Get with the times?
In the event that youre not joking: ***Will the SSPX be having the Divine Mercy Devotions next Sunday?*** At the FSSP church i attend on Sundays, theres a “Jesus I trust in You” picture permanently hanging in the church. The FSSP even refers to next Sunday as “Divine Mercy Sunday” (not “Low Sunday”). Not frozen in the past! That`s sane Traditionalism.

Does the SSPX recognize Saint Faustina, Saint Pio etc?
Has the SSPX entered the 21st Century yet?
Is the SSPX still a combination of the Pharisees and Little Jack Horner?
Etc, etc, etc.

Get with the times, indeed!!!

You may be wrong, but you are going to dig deeper and find something else wrong anyway? Ok.

Divine Mercy Sunday ? Do you believe every OF parish has DMS devotions ?
If one doesn’t, will you condemn them ? So much for that.

Come on, do you know that Sancta Missa, in full communion with Rome, and a leader in promoting the EF, sells the missal reprinted and published by the SSPX (Angelus Press)? It’s right there on the first page of their tutorial.
sanctamissa.org/en/tutorial/
Not like the Angelus Press reprint is the only one available.

This is 2010 friend, not 1988.
newliturgicalmovement.org/

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[Abenadar]

Legally, there may or may not be schism.

But; the SSPX is not in union with Rome the way the FSSP and the ICRSS are. And that makes all the difference.

Nobody has said otherwise. They are not in “perfect” communion, but by the very fact that there is some sort of communion (imperfect) means that there isn’t a schism. Stop perpetuating outdated fiction.

Will the SSPX be having the Divine Mercy Devotions next Sunday? At the FSSP church i attend on Sundays, there`s a “Jesus I trust in You” picture permanently hanging in the church.

The SSPX uses a missal from 1962…There was no Divine Mercy devotion at that point. Not having the “Divine Mercy” image in a church means nothing…There are too many images and devotions to have them all in a Church. At my church, Our Lady of Sorrows, there are special devotions to Our Lady of Sorrows, and to the Seven Sorrows of the BVM etc.

The FSSP even refers to next Sunday as “Divine Mercy Sunday” (not “Low Sunday”). Not frozen in the past! That`s sane Traditionalism.

So anybody using the 1962 missal is practicing “insane” traditionalism??? Gee, thanks.

Does the SSPX recognize Saint Faustina, Saint Pio etc?

Yes, why wouldn’t they?

Has the SSPX entered the 21st Century yet?

Dogma is timeless. While the SSPX may not wreckovate their churches and bring in clowns, dancers, and fools into Mass, they are mighty defenders of the unchanging teachings of HMC.

Is the SSPX still a combination of the Pharisees and Little Jack Horner?

“Do as I say, not as I do”, right? When bad churchmen teach heresy and practice sacrilege and abuse, should the SSPX do as Rome “says” and maintain an error-free environment, or should they do as Rome “does” and bring in the costume paint and balloons???

Get with the times, indeed!!!

Indeed.

 

[MaryDS]

Thank you all for taking the time to respond.

Shortly after posting this, I attended a Holy Saturday Latin mass, not affiliated with the SSPX. I think I will feel more comfortable avoiding the SSPX church for a while and find the Latin mass elsewhere.

However, my few attendences at the SSPX church taught me humilty and to take the communion in the mouth, I can’t believe I did it the other way for so long! Of course, I would have learnt these things from attending any Latin mass, but anyway, at least I’m doing the right thing now…

The political arguments surrounding the SSPX ( Schism/Not Schism) are all well and good, if not for the mounting confusion they inevitably manifest.

So, as always the answer lies in prayer, I just have to trust that I can discern the right voices! Of which, some guidance has been offered in this forum.

Thank you.

 

[utah_rose]

I am thoroughly confused to the point of desperation.

At the beginning of Lent, after reading a book on exorcisms, a couple of Google’s later, I came across this webpage:

tldm.org/News4/WarningsFromBeyond.1of3.htm

In essence, it is a vast transcript of an exorcism held in the 1970’s, and the demons claim to be speaking by proxy of Our Lady. Their revelations, led me to seek more information, which essentially led me to search for the SSPX and begin attending the old mass.

I have been 4 times, at first I enjoyed the humility it demanded, the reverence it displayed and the sheer simplicity of it all. Before last night’s Mass, I attended confession and asked the priest for advice on a query I have raised here previously.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=439951

I was told to completely dismiss it, accused of spiritual vanity and told I wasn’t special, in a mocking tone I might add. My point is he made me feel like **** and that I had sincerely bothered him with such nonsense. Anyway, it has been playing on my mind and today I attended the new mass at my local church I used to attend, prior to Lent. Partly due to this, but mainly for sheer convenience as it would have taken me 2 hours to get there today.

The new mass seemed so vulgar and commercial in comparison, I cringed at the readings, the people taking hosts in their hands and lay people distributing the host. It made me want to go back to the old mass, which I will probably do for Holy Saturday.

Ok, so back to my question; I have laid such wilful conviction in this webpage and am just not certain that I am doing the right thing. The words from the demons seem to make sense and I do appreciate that scripture tells us again and again of the devils deceptiveness, for some reason I just felt that God meant for me to read that page.

I keep reading posts on here about the SSPX in schism and the SSPX should be avoided etc but then I think the SSPX ARE following the right path and perhaps thats why they are ostracised.

Then the weird buzzy thing happened while I was praying the rosary again this week and I am just thoroughly thoroughly confused and stressed about it all. I don’t want to offend God by going to the wrong Mass, but then I don’t want to attend a church when I don’t trust the priest. I have prayed for guidance, but sometimes I can’t tell whether the thoughts coming into my head are angels or demons telling me what to do. If I hear a thought telling me to go to the SSPX church, is it a demon getting me into to trouble or an angel telling me the right thing to do, or am I just borderline schizophrenic!

Sorry about the length of this; I find this forum fascinating and know that you guys will be able to help me.

Many thanks.

The SSPX is still in schism with the Roman Catholic Church. I don’t especially like the new Mass either, but don’t you have a Tridentine Mass celebrated in your diocese? We have a parish that celebrates it each Sunday, and we go at least once a month.

As for the demon bit, they do lie. We do know they roam around the world though but I’d stay away from that website. If you feel especially troubled, pray to St. Michael.

You didn’t mention if your confessor was at your own parish. If he was, I would change parishes if possible. Priests ARE NOT supposed to treat confessions like he did.

Also, try to remember that the Eucharist is the focus of the Mass; despite some irreverence by some of the congregation, try to keep focused on Jesus.

Finally, I would also talk to your pastor about the irreverence that goes on. I recently attended Good Friday services at another Parish and was impressed that there was a “Silence” sign painted on the doors of the Church. Also the pastor mentioned, that people should go out quietly and if they are going to socialize, do it outside of the Church rather than the vestibule. If any others are bothered by this, a group could also approach your pastor privately, and tactfully mention this.

Hope this helps. I believe if the priests spoke about reverence in Church it would help, but sadly I don’t see that happening much.

 

[RosaryCrusader]

You may not like what I have to say… but have you given any thought to what the Priest told you? Maybe his tone could’ve been more compassionate - but don’t dismiss what the Priest told you just because he offended your sense of pride. Padre Pio would’ve probably told you the same thing. We all have really thin skins these days - but there are certain ways of dealing with certain issues and some of the Saints dealt with vision seeing religious rather harshly. I was just reading today of St. Teresa’s dealing with a sister who said she “thought” she had a vision. You can’t “think” you had a vision - either you did or you didn’t - in which case “thinking” you did would be a sure sign that you’re decieved, illusioned, or need more sleep.

For $3.95 you can get the following book - I would highly recommend it.
angeluspress.org/oscatalog/item/4092/rules-for-discerning-spirits

I posted on your other topic on your experience and I too think you’re being a little over-reactive to what is probably normal eye phenomena. Try looking at the picture w/o praying the rosary and I’m sure you’ll see the same thing. - or any picture for that matter. Even if it is of diabolical nature you don’t want to give much thought to it - use the sacramentals (ie. Holy water, blessed salt, blessed candles) and prayer and move on. The devil wants nothing more than for you to dwell on this and get you thinking prideful thoughts of how unique you must be for the devil to attack in so obvious a fashion.

I’ll keep you in my prayers tonight.

P.S. Check your inbox - I just sent a private message.

 

[SunnaB16]

You may be wrong, but you are going to dig deeper and find something else wrong anyway? Ok.

Divine Mercy Sunday ? Do you believe every OF parish has DMS devotions ?
If one doesn’t, will you condemn them ? So much for that.

The fact that not every OF parish has Divine Mercy Sunday devotions is a red herring. Rome has instituted the devotions; and the question was: ***Will the SSPX be holding the devotions ***next Sunday? YES OR NO? The comparison was with the FSSP! In other words: does the SSPX recognise the DM? Or does it recognise only pre-Vatican II stuff?

Come on, do you know that Sancta Missa, in full communion with Rome, and a leader in promoting the EF, sells the missal reprinted and published by the SSPX (Angelus Press)? It’s right there on the first page of their tutorial.
sanctamissa.org/en/tutorial/
Not like the Angelus Press reprint is the only one available.

In spite of that: the SSPX is NOT in full communion with Rome; and if it doesn`t lose some of its “holier than thou”, “What a good boy am I!” mentality, it never will be.

This is 2010 friend, not 1988.

i know; and apart from the lifting of the excommunications, nothing has really changed, has it?! Still the same extremism.
Anyway, 2 or 3 weeks back, on another CAF thread (The Next Pope), i was warned by a poster about SSPX (etc.) fans who have their own agenda on CAF. Now i know what he was talking about. Your pen name means something.

 

[MaryDS]

Rosary Crusader, , you are certainly right about a few things, not that you are wrong about others but, I agree that it is incredibly easy to believe that I am special and targeted by the devil. I did not think that at the time, I was just scared and confused. Although, I probably did think that for a while after, just the comfort it brings to think you are getting closer to God.

The priests words were a slap in the face and perhaps there was some truth in it, however the speed and brevity in which he delivered it, led me to believe that he had not listened and dismissed the idea before I had even finished speaking.

Something similiar happened again while praying the rosary, but I am just trying to pay it no mind for the moment. The less time I spend looking at exorcism transcripts and occult behaviours, the better.

Thank you.

 

[Ockham]

In spite of that: the SSPX is NOT in full communion with Rome; and if it doesn`t lose some of its “holier than thou”, “What a good boy am I!” mentality, it never will be.

i know; and apart from the lifting of the excommunications, nothing has really changed, has it?! Still the same extremism.

Anyway, 2 or 3 weeks back, on another CAF thread (The Next Pope), i was warned by a poster about SSPX (etc.) fans who have their own agenda on CAF. Now i know what he was talking about. Your pen name means something.

Check the mirror. You are the one with extremist and I dare say unCatholic behaviour. Why such hostility towards a fellow group of Catholics?

 

[SunnaB16]

Check the mirror. You are the one with extremist and I dare say unCatholic behaviour. Why such hostility towards a fellow group of Catholics?

Apart from the fact that that post wasn`t addressed to you…
You and your pro-SSPX comrades are showing your extremism by the increasingly hysterical tone of your posts.

i`m a Traditionalist who unconditionally accepts the validity of Vatican II; and who unconditionally accepts the validity of the Novus Ordo…even though i prefer the TLM.
In that regard, the FSSP sets a great example.

The hostility comes from your side. And it`s been increasing along with the length of this thread.

If the SSPX is ever fully reconciled with Rome (not vice versa), every (former) member should have to declare that he recognizes the validity of VII and the NO. Dont you reckon thatd be fair?

 

[Ockham]

Apart from the fact that that post wasn`t addressed to you…
You and your pro-SSPX comrades are showing your extremism by the increasingly hysterical tone of your posts.

You are not being charitable and looking to instigate conflict. How about toning it down or just pass on this thread?

 

[SunnaB16]

Nobody has said otherwise. They are not in “perfect” communion, but by the very fact that there is some sort of communion (imperfect) means that there isn’t a schism. Stop perpetuating outdated fiction.

Stop peddling a pro-SSPX agenda.

The SSPX uses a missal from 1962…There was no Divine Mercy devotion at that point. Not having the “Divine Mercy” image in a church means nothing…There are too many images and devotions to have them all in a Church. At my church, Our Lady of Sorrows, there are special devotions to Our Lady of Sorrows, and to the Seven Sorrows of the BVM etc.

So anybody using the 1962 missal is practicing “insane” traditionalism??? Gee, thanks.

Putting words into my mouth; and you know it!
The FSSP uses the 1962 Missal as well (as if you didn`t know!); but for post-1962 Devotions, its priests are prepared to go beyond it.

Dogma is timeless. While the SSPX may not wreckovate their churches and bring in clowns, dancers, and fools into Mass, ***they are mighty defenders ***of the unchanging teachings of HMC.

Stirring Words!!! There should be a drum roll.
Sounds as if you think that the abuses and obscenities that go on in Los Angeles and elsewhere are the norm.

“Do as I say, not as I do”, right? When bad churchmen teach heresy and practice sacrilege and abuse, should the SSPX do as Rome “says” and maintain an error-free environment, or should they do as Rome “does” and bring in the costume paint and balloons???

Again; who said anything about bringing in the costume paint and balloons? Your sanctimonious attitude is sickening. Talk about “More Catholic Than The Pope”!

No wonder Fr. John Rizzo left the SSPX! Having met him, i can say that the SSPX`s loss is our gain.

Did Gerry Matatics pass this way on his journey into Sedevacantistland?