Is this a sin?

[Black_Jaque]

Well I think it is very important for both to be satisfied. If the woman only makes herself available to her husband the hole act is lessened and the husband will soon learn that there is something the matter and begin to doubt himself. And for the record if my wife held back sex or anything like that I do not feel it so important that she should go to hell. But I don’t make the rules.

What do you mean “only makes herself available”?

I don’t think it lessens the act if a wife makes her “whole self” available, even at times when she’s not in the mood. No more than it lessens the communication if a husband would rather watch the football game but turns off the TV to talk with his wife.

However, if by “only makes herself available” you really mean “only makes her body available” then I think I understand you. If she doesn’t give her “whole self” she basically just refused her husband anyway. If she’s thinking about the laundry, the shopping, her sister’s birthday etc. she’s doing something very bad.

Which brings us back to the O.P. We don’t really know what she means by “dirty thoughts”. If she’s thinking erotic thoughts about her husband while with her husband that’s not necessarily bad. If she’s thinking about her favorite soap opera character - that’s bad.

 

[HopeFull_Mom]

HI!
First of all I have to say that if sex didn’t exist I would not care.
I’m married and I don’t get arouse very easily.My husband is very good with the first part but than he doesn’t last long and very often to get that thing done I need to have dirty thoughts.
Is this a sin?

Thank you

I’m a little confused as to how a thread opened in this manner has turned in to a discussion on whether a man is less guilty for resorting to pornography or masterbation in the case of his wife depriving him of his marriage right.

The OP is clearly making herself available to her husband and is simply having trouble reaching climax. She is worried about it not because she wants this for selfish reasons but because she wishes to please her husband as fully as possible. I hardly see how threatening her with the possibilty of her husband resorting to porn or masterbation does any good.

On the issue of whether a wife denying her husband lessens his guilt in these acts, it is just as easy for a wife to claim she is denying her husband because he is not treating her this way or that. He yelled at her earlier so it is partly his fault that she won’t perform tonight. This kind of blame game is not exactly the kind of thing that will help any marriage.

I think Jesus warned us about causing others to sin so we would think about our actions carefully, not so we could lie on our bums after “stumbling” and yell “Hey, you tripped me!!!” or make excuses about our sins after we have commited them. He was giving a warning to the people doing the tripping not providing excuses for those being tripped.

I’m sure the last thing Jesus ever would have wanted us to do is blame our mistakes on others. What good does blaming others ever do us. When we blame others even in part, we make a victim of ourselves and deny ourselves our ability to change, grow and succeed in the future.

I feel sad that a priest would have given the counselling mentioned earlier. In what way does believing your wife even slightly pushed you into these sins make it easier for you to fight them off in the future. In terms of release, what about the single man, the priest or the man who is married to a sick wife do? Are they only commiting venial sins if they resort to pornography?

PennitentMan

My question for you is why not start your own thread on this issue if you need help or advice so the OP can get some advice and encouragement without having to weed through all this stuff which may end up making her feel worse? If you are chastising a woman you don’t even know on an on-line forum maybe you should be expressing your feelings of hurt to your wife or a counselor or both.

Also, what do you want in this life and the next? If you want to reach heaven do not look at porn or masterbate for any reason. Are you really prepared to answer Jesus with the same cowardly excuse Adam used," The woman, whom you gavest to me to be my companion, gave me of the tree, and I did eat". In other words “It was her fault”. Looking at porn hurts you, your marriage, your family and most importantly God. It does not offer release, it offers pain, regret and sadness. Looking at porn and masterbating is the same in the eyes of Jesus as cheating on your wife. If you feel hurt by her depriving you of herself, think how you would feel if she cheated on you.

If you love your wife and want to work to improve your marriage stop blaming her for your mistakes and focus on what you can do to improve things. If you spend your whole life in sacrifice, loving your wife when she doesn’t return your affection, you will have shown your wife and children, if you have any, a wonderful example and you will probably end up a saint. If you allow self pity to enter your soul and give in to impure actions you will hurt those around you and could end up in hell.

 

[PennitentMan]

PennitentMan

My question for you is why not start your own thread on this issue if you need help or advice so the OP can get some advice and encouragement without having to weed through all this stuff which may end up making her feel worse? If you are chastising a woman you don’t even know on an on-line forum maybe you should be expressing your feelings of hurt to your wife or a counselor or both.

Also, what do you want in this life and the next? If you want to reach heaven do not look at porn or masterbate for any reason. Are you really prepared to answer Jesus with the same cowardly excuse Adam used," The woman, whom you gavest to me to be my companion, gave me of the tree, and I did eat". In other words “It was her fault”. Looking at porn hurts you, your marriage, your family and most importantly God. It does not offer release, it offers pain, regret and sadness. Looking at porn and masterbating is the same in the eyes of Jesus as cheating on your wife. If you feel hurt by her depriving you of herself, think how you would feel if she cheated on you.

If you love your wife and want to work to improve your marriage stop blaming her for your mistakes and focus on what you can do to improve things. If you spend your whole life in sacrifice, loving your wife when she doesn’t return your affection, you will have shown your wife and children, if you have any, a wonderful example and you will probably end up a saint. If you allow self pity to enter your soul and give in to impure actions you will hurt those around you and could end up in hell.

I have started my own threads on this subject…two of them. I started them to seek council from friends here.

I do not blame my wife, ever. I love her dearly. I know she has her reasons. I started the threads to find better ways to deal with my feelings, to aviod self-pitty.

I have not stumbled and viewed porn or masturbated.

I was relaying council given to me by a priest, when I did seek his help on this same subject and I thought that might be helpful on this thread.

I remain faithful to my wife and will remain sin-free as long as I humanly can.
When I stumble I will view it as a mortal sin and go to confession.

I’m trying to be the best husband and father I can be.
PM

 

[Charybdis]

I believe that the OP’s question was if her dirty thoughts were sinful?

I believe it depends on what “dirty thoughts” you are having…

If you are fantasizing about another man, other strange or perverse sexual situations (orgies, etc.) to get you into the mood, then, yes, those are sinful thoughts and must be confessed.

If you are thinking about things you do with your husband or have him try to stimulate you, then, no, those are not sinful and are part of the marital embrace that is reserved to couples alone…

 

[LovedForever]

Well I think it is very important for both to be satisfied. If the woman only makes herself available to her husband the hole act is lessened and the husband will soon learn that there is something the matter and begin to doubt himself. And for the record if my wife held back sex or anything like that I do not feel it so important that she should go to hell. But I don’t make the rules.

Teddy

Keep in mind that “making yourself available” to your spouse, even if to begin with it is merely out of duty with your heart not really into it - THIS in itself is an act of self-giving and while imperfect, the start of what often slowly becomes more than just your body being involved. It begins to create intimacy - however small that seed might be. It is a start.
To REFUSE to even go this far - is to reject that opportunity and of course your spouse.

So to those women who think that the only time you need to give yourself to your spouse is when you are “in the mood” (translation: only when there is something in it for “ME”) - know that you are very wrong in the attitude and that it is in fact part of the “cycle” you put yourself in - lack of desire.
The old saying, “Use it or lose it” has some truth in it.
The more you “use it” - (the marital act) - the more you will desire it - AND your spouse. Try it.

 

[HopeFull_Mom]

My 2 cents:

It is a bit concerning for me to read that there are quite a few marreid Catholic ladies out there that feel this way about intimacy.
I am in a very similar situation, and to tell you honestly ladies, you are hurting your husbands by denying them this.
Marriage is about love. Don’t deny them this gift from God! Please pay attention.

You may even be the cause of your husband masturbating or looking at porn!
Pray about this please.

In Christ,
PM

I’m sorry if I said too much or was too hard. It sounds like you are trying your best. I guess I just feel that to scare wives into believing their lack of performance could CAUSE their husbands to look at porn or masterbate is a very imprudent thing to do. Perhaps your situation is unique but in many situations, especially those where porn/masterbation is a habit or an addiction, wives have to work very hard to reach a place where they can believe their husband’s problem is not their fault or due to their shortcomings. The men in these situations are also strongly warned against blaiming others as that is the surest way for them to remain enslaved in their habit/addiction.

Also I just don’t see how a woman clearly stressed by trying to please her husband is going to be helped by the thought of being responsible for her husband resorting to porn/masterbation if she doesn’t get a better attitude. In the building of a healthy marital relationship there are much better reasons than this to want to please and fulfill your spouse.

 

[PennitentMan]

I’m sorry if I said too much or was too hard. It sounds like you are trying your best. I guess I just feel that to scare wives into believing their lack of performance could CAUSE their husbands to look at porn or masterbate is a very imprudent thing to do. Perhaps your situation is unique but in many situations, especially those where porn/masterbation is a habit or an addiction, wives have to work very hard to reach a place where they can believe their husband’s problem is not their fault or due to their shortcomings. The men in these situations are also strongly warned against blaiming others as that is the surest way for them to remain enslaved in their habit/addiction.

Also I just don’t see how a woman clearly stressed by trying to please her husband is going to be helped by the thought of being responsible for her husband resorting to porn/masterbation if she doesn’t get a better attitude. In the building of a healthy marital relationship there are much better reasons than this to want to please and fulfill your spouse.

Thanks for the post, I see where you are coming from, and my appologies to Taty97 for any ill feeligs due to my post.

You are right, I’m not in a situation of addiction (praise to God) to porn or masturbation, just a normal guy who loves his wife dearly, but intimacy is very few and far between.

Us guys show our wifes we love and care about them by buying them flowers, taking them to dinners, buying them gifts of varying sizes, giving them backrubs, taking care of the kids so they can go get manicures, washing dishes, vacuuming, taking out the trash, cooking some nights, (the list goes on and on).
Us guys percieve love from our wives through the gift of intimacy…and maybe also by giving us food.

I could go on on this point, but I fear that I’ll hijack the thread again

Anyway, my appologies for any offence caused.

PM

 

[HopeFull_Mom]

Thanks for the post, I see where you are coming from, and my appologies to Taty97 for any ill feeligs due to my post.

You are right, I’m not in a situation of addiction (praise to God) to porn or masturbation, just a normal guy who loves his wife dearly, but intimacy is very few and far between.

Us guys show our wifes we love and care about them by buying them flowers, taking them to dinners, buying them gifts of varying sizes, giving them backrubs, taking care of the kids so they can go get manicures, washing dishes, vacuuming, taking out the trash, cooking some nights, (the list goes on and on).
Us guys percieve love from our wives through the gift of intimacy…and maybe also by giving us food.

I could go on on this point, but I fear that I’ll hijack the thread again

Anyway, my appologies for any offence caused.

PM

I’ll pray for you and your wife that your love and relationship will be renewed.

 

[PennitentMan]

I’ll pray for you and your wife that your love and relationship will be renewed.

Thank you for the prayers.
PM

 

[Black_Jaque]

Us guys show our wifes we love and care about them by buying them flowers, taking them to dinners, buying them gifts of varying sizes, giving them backrubs, taking care of the kids so they can go get manicures, washing dishes, vacuuming, taking out the trash, cooking some nights, (the list goes on and on).
Us guys percieve love from our wives through the gift of intimacy…and maybe also by giving us food.

Man! If this isn’t proof that men are better than women I don’t know what is. Look at the “to do” list men have vs. the “to do” list women have. And yet women still seem to blow it.

Tongue in cheek…tongue in cheek…tongue in cheek!

 

[PennitentMan]

Man! If this isn’t proof that men are better than women I don’t know what is. Look at the “to do” list men have vs. the “to do” list women have. And yet women still seem to blow it.

Tongue in cheek…tongue in cheek…tongue in cheek!

 

[nomolos]

My confessor says to entertain thoughts is grave matter. But if it pops up and you dismiss it asap, it is not a sin.

so, yes, it is a sin. I’m sorry for your struggles.

Maybe you could pray about this (sexual desire). And, it the meantime, concentrate just on pleasing him?

Such a difficult topic…

Only if you use your husband in your thoughts I wouldn’t think it is a sin. Jesus explained something like this to the pharases, if you look at another woman lustfully then you have already commited adultery. So like wise to a married woman to look at another man lustfully. Since you are already married you are one, so you are thinking of each other.

 

[nomolos]

whhHHhhHHHOOOOOO… HOLD ON THERE.
that is a stretch. she wouldn’t be culpable for his sinning. HE is responsible for his sinning.

HE ALONE sins if he masturbates or looks at porn.

Maybe he meant tempted to watch porn or masturbate, to fill his needs.

 

[Chancellare]

Keep in mind that “making yourself available” to your spouse, even if to begin with it is merely out of duty with your heart not really into it - THIS in itself is an act of self-giving and while imperfect, the start of what often slowly becomes more than just your body being involved. It begins to create intimacy - however small that seed might be. It is a start.
To REFUSE to even go this far - is to reject that opportunity and of course your spouse.

So to those women who think that the only time you need to give yourself to your spouse is when you are “in the mood” (translation: only when there is something in it for “ME”) - know that you are very wrong in the attitude and that it is in fact part of the “cycle” you put yourself in - lack of desire.
The old saying, “Use it or lose it” has some truth in it.
The more you “use it” - (the marital act) - the more you will desire it - AND your spouse. Try it.

Let us all pray then for all couples that they be given the grace to uphold unity in their marital vows which include self-giving and not only to focus on their own individual preferences.

 

[Mimi]

There can be many many reasons why a woman (or man for that matter) can have reduced libido. Hormonal changes, illness (known and unknown), depression, stress, diet, alcohol…it is a very personal and individual thing.

Kudos to you that you have a great sex life - that is not the case for everyone, nor does it mean that they do not love their spouse if libido is reduced.

~Liza

Right! Hormonal fluctuations can make a woman v tired, esp. if she is also experiencing insomnia (and could be further irritated by dh’s snoring like a 747). Night sweats can be a big problem for some women, too. These symptoms can go on for months, stop, then start up again. Stress from work or emotional problems can sap one’s energy, too.

OTOH, husbands can help quite a lot by being patient, letting his dw know he’s praying for her (them), and asking the Holy Spirit to guide them. Making a date night might be a good idea; just watch a movie together, or set aside a time to pray together. Really communicate and listen to each other! Sometimes this is all it takes for a woman to be loved. Give hugs and kisses without expecting anything further to develop.

And, please, folks, can we refer to intimacy as “the marital act”? It’s the term used on Relevant Radio. Thanks in advance!

Hope you’re all having a blessed Lent,
Mim

 

[terra_keding]

Responding to the origional question, I just want to say that the marital act is pleasurable on many different levels. With or without climax, a woman can enjoy very much the closeness and connectedness with her husband. I suggest that you focus on those aspects more, so that sex becomes the pleasurable act for you that it is intented to be. Keep in mind that every person’s sexual drive is different, and men’s tend to stronger than women’s. If this is the case between you and your husband, than you do not have to climax every time you have intercourse. Considering that it sounds like you have to work for it (climax), you would probably enjoy sex more if you stopped worrying about that and started focusing on some of the other wonderful things about making love - the warmth of his body, the smell of his aftershave, how in love you are with each other, and what a beautiful gift it is that God has has given you the ability to express your love and unity physically, etc. Don’t feel obligated to achieve orgasm every time for his sake (I’m sure the last thing he would want is for you to feel like it’s a chore). Just explain to him that men and woman tend to be different when it comes to sexual needs (each individual is different in their sexual needs ) and that you don’t have the need to climax as often as him. And as you enjoy sex more for other reasons, you can reasure him that even when you don’t climax, you are just as satisfied (In different ways). That may be hard for him at first, but your husband needs to understand the reality of your sexuality so that he can better satisfy you. If you have frequent “quickies” between the encounters when he does brings you to orgasm, he may be able to last longer those times you need him to. And if you take the pressure off youself to climax every time, you’ll be able to enjoy it more, and than when orgasm is the end result you want, you may be able to achieve it easier. Relax and enjoy, and let it happen when it happens.

But DO NOT resort to “dirty thoughts” to get there. It’s not honest and it takes you out of the moment, and your husband deserves to have you honestly and deserves to have your full attention. The marital act is intended to be an expression of your love. You should be fully present in your marriage, heart, mind, and soul, and likewise you should be fully present when you make love. Not off in lala land. I know your intentions were good when you have had “dirty thoughts” but the road to hell is paved…

and there are much better ways to solve your problem. Besides the afore mentioned suggestion, talk to your husband about the specifics - what you like, what you don’t, areas to be improved upon, etc. Do it charitably, and I don’t think he’ll be permananty damaged (the wind temporarily out of his sails maybe, but he’s a big strong man, he can take it). Chances are he’s not completely clueless about your present feelings about sex and would probably like to know what the problem is, and what he can do to help. It’s not selfish to talk to him about how you feel because your pleasure is important to his pleasure. He’s not a mind reader, so he won’t know what you need if you don’t tell him!

Also, really think about why you’re not enjoying sex. Are you lacking intimacy in other aspects of your marriage? How’s your communication? How is your physical heath? (That can be a HUGE factor for women) Are your expectations realistic? Are his? (I doubt it, most mens aren’t when it comes to female sexuality, unless their wife talks to them about it; thanks to pornography, and the media at large) Think about what has infuenced your, and his, attitudes about sex. The secular culture we live in can be have a very negative influence on our perceptions in all areas, but maybe in this area in particular. So if you have any Cosmos, throw them away! and read some Catholic books about theology of the body. And remember, sex is a gift

And most importantly, take it to PRAYER!

God Bless

 

[ginnydes]

I’m also wondering if not getting involved mentally in the marital act is a sin. I come from a very abusive past. I also suffer from a brain injury and had repressed a lot of the abuse when we got married. At that time, I was very much into the marital act. Recently, I have composed my autobiography (being inspired by God), and my past hurts all came back to my mind. Now I find it so hard to get in the marital act and sometimes even consider it more of an obligation than a priveledge. I am also very sad most of the time. I feel awful about this and was wondering if someone could offer me advice. Thank you and God bless you all.

 

[ginnydes]

I also want to mention that I have been to counselling for my issue. For a while it did help, but now my problem seems to be much worse than it was before. God has been my comfort as I deal with this issue.