Is this a valid marriage?

[MichelleTherese]

Are two people, who do not believe in God and thus are not Christians, are married in a Protestant church, enter marriage using contraception and later get an abortion when the wife becomes pregnant, validly married in the eyes of the Catholic Church?

If these two people (man and woman) get divorced are they free to marry again?

Thank you!

 

[puzzleannie]

what happens after the wedding does not determine the validity of the marriage. The conditions that pertain at the time of the contract determine validity. In general, the Catholic Church assumes that two people who are otherwise free to marry, are will and able to give full free will consent, are validly married. Where and by whom is an issue only for Catholics. Two non-baptized persons, or one bapt-one not bapt, have a valid natural marriage. Two baptized persons have a valid and sacramental marriage.

If they divorce and either seeks to remarry a Catholic the validity of the first marriage must be indentified and judged by the marriage tribunal of the diocese to determine if the marriage was valid from its inception. If not, they are not free to marry.

every marriage situation is unique, this is a hypothetical case only, and each marriage situation must be investigated and resolved before the parties are free to marry again. If either party seeking to remarry has used BC or plans to, or has had an abortion or would do so, they cannot validly marry in any case if they cling to that determination, so education and pastoral counselling must be part of the marriage preparation if they do seek to marry a Catholic.

 

[dulcissima]

Their marriage would be presumed valid unless it was investigated by a tribunal and found to be otherwise. If one of these parties became Catholic or was interested in marrying a Catholic, I would urge them to speak to a priest. They might want to look into what canon 1101 says about being open to life. Here is an explanation from the archdiocese of Los Angeles web site:

Simulation contra bonum prolis: This intention may, but need not, involve an absolute refusal ever to have children. Perhaps more commonly the exclusion might be a matter of one of the parties reserving to him or her self the sole power to determine, without respect to the other party’s rights or wishes, whether or not to have children or unilaterally to limit the number of children. The Church teaches that in a genuine marriage the parties exchange certain rights, and one such right is that of openness to children in the union. An intention in which one partner denies this right of the other is invalidating. A situation in which the two parties mutually agree to limit the number of children or delay having children is not an invalidating exclusion unless that agreement is understood by one of the parties to supersede the right of the other to change his or her mind. Since marriage is ordained not only for the procreation but also for the education of children, the jurisprudence recognizes the invalidating consequences of an intention against the education of children.

archdiocese.la/prayer/sacraments/tribunal/consent.html

 

[1ke]

Are two people, who do not believe in God and thus are not Christians, are married in a Protestant church, enter marriage using contraception and later get an abortion when the wife becomes pregnant, validly married in the eyes of the Catholic Church?

The basic answer is “yes”. All marriages are presumed valid.

Two unbaptized individuals or an unbaptized person married to a baptized person have what is called a “good and natural marriage”. Two baptized persons have a sacramental marriage.

What they did after they were married-- contraception and abortion-- are grave issues but do not invalidate the valid marriage.

What we can say is that, yes right now they are presumed to be in a valid marriage. Only a Catholic marriage tribunal can examine the marriage and determine if there were any impediments at the time they exchanged vows that would indicate an invalid marriage.

If these two people (man and woman) get divorced are they free to marry again?

No, they are not free to marry again. But, being non-Catholics, I doubt that they would care what the Church teaches about marriage.

If one of them wanted to become Catholic, or marry a Catholic, their prior marriage would have to be submitted to the Tribunal for investigation before proceeding.

 

[MichelleTherese]

Regarding openess to life from canon 1101: “An intention in which one partner denies this right of the other is invalidating.”

This is exactly the case. The wife did not allow discussion of children prior to or after the marriage. The husband did not, and have any say in the matter of having children at any time. Before and after the marriage the fiance/wife claimed the “right” to be the only one to make the decision to have or not have children. Her abortion caused the marriage to end in divorce. Now the man wishes to marry a Catholic.

Does this situation of the fiance/wife not allowing the man to have any say regarding children before and after the marriage invalidate the marriage?

I understand the need to bring this matter to the church for judgement etc. But it will help if there is an understanding of what validates and invalidates marriages.

Also: how does one go about the annulment process if the ex-wife absolutely refuses to have anything to do with her ex-husband? There is no way that the Church will be able to talk with her. End of story. So how on earth does the man go about the annulment process in this case? Should he just not even bother?

How many years must he wait for the judgement of the Church? Does the Church attempt to deal with annulment cases in a timely fashion? I’ve heard horror stories of it taking years and years and being dragged on and on.

Thank you!

 

[1ke]

This is exactly the case. The wife did not allow discussion of children prior to or after the marriage. The husband did not, and have any say in the matter of having children at any time. Before and after the marriage the fiance/wife claimed the “right” to be the only one to make the decision to have or not have children. Her abortion caused the marriage to end in divorce. Now the man wishes to marry a Catholic.

That is VERY sad! The father needs to go to post abortion counseling. Contact Rachel’s Vineyard or Project Rachel, or a local crisis pregnancy center.

Does this situation of the fiance/wife not allowing the man to have any say regarding children before and after the marriage invalidate the marriage?

It certainly might be grounds for a declaration of nullity. If the wife vocalized a firm intention against children prior to the marriage (and the subsequent abortion proves that out) then it sounds like it might be a good case.

The man must go talk to a priest, and the case must be taken to the Tribunal. No one here can say that the marriage is invalid. We can only tell you it sounds as if there are grounds to petition the Tribunal. Go talk to a priest!

I understand the need to bring this matter to the church for judgement etc. But it will help if there is an understanding of what validates and invalidates marriages.

It’s extremely individual. Each case is unique. A really good book on the entire topic of annulment is Annulment: The Wedding That Was by Michael Smith Foster. Get it off Amazon, it’s worth the money.

Also: how does one go about the annulment process if the ex-wife absolutely refuses to have anything to do with her ex-husband? There is no way that the Church will be able to talk with her. End of story. So how on earth does the man go about the annulment process in this case? Should he just not even bother?

The Tribunal will attempt to contact her. If she refuses to participate, the inquiry goes on without her. Her participation is not required. He can seek the declaration of nullity without her.

How many years must he wait for the judgement of the Church? Does the Church attempt to deal with annulment cases in a timely fashion? I’ve heard horror stories of it taking years and years and being dragged on and on.

It depends on the complexity of the case, the number of cases the Tribunal is working on, etc.

No one can answer that here, it’s a question for your diocese.

 

[1ke]

This is exactly the case. The wife did not allow discussion of children prior to or after the marriage. The husband did not, and have any say in the matter of having children at any time. Before and after the marriage the fiance/wife claimed the “right” to be the only one to make the decision to have or not have children. Her abortion caused the marriage to end in divorce. Now the man wishes to marry a Catholic.

That is VERY sad! The father needs to go to post abortion counseling. Contact Rachel’s Vineyard or Project Rachel, or a local crisis pregnancy center.

Does this situation of the fiance/wife not allowing the man to have any say regarding children before and after the marriage invalidate the marriage?

It certainly might be grounds for a declaration of nullity. If the wife vocalized a firm intention against children prior to the marriage (and the subsequent abortion proves that out) then it sounds like it might be a good case.

The man must go talk to a priest, and the case must be taken to the Tribunal. No one here can say that the marriage is invalid. We can only tell you it sounds as if there are grounds to petition the Tribunal. Go talk to a priest!

I understand the need to bring this matter to the church for judgement etc. But it will help if there is an understanding of what validates and invalidates marriages.

It’s extremely individual. Each case is unique. A really good book on the entire topic of annulment is Annulment: The Wedding That Was by Michael Smith Foster. Get it off Amazon, it’s worth the money.

Also: how does one go about the annulment process if the ex-wife absolutely refuses to have anything to do with her ex-husband? There is no way that the Church will be able to talk with her. End of story. So how on earth does the man go about the annulment process in this case? Should he just not even bother?

The Tribunal will attempt to contact her. If she refuses to participate, the inquiry goes on without her. Her participation is not required. He can seek the declaration of nullity without her.

How many years must he wait for the judgement of the Church? Does the Church attempt to deal with annulment cases in a timely fashion? I’ve heard horror stories of it taking years and years and being dragged on and on.

It depends on the complexity of the case, the number of cases the Tribunal is working on, etc.

No one can answer that here, it’s a question for your diocese.