Is this a valid understanding of the Holy Trinity?

[JD27076]

imgur.com/TQSZXV2

Haha. Just trying to be a little St. Augustine over here.

Now just thing of this. Three Deities: God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. These deities are combined in One Triune God. This Triune God is the God we know today.

Now Jesus is not connected to God. And God is not connected to the Holy Spirit directly; however, they are all unified under this One Triune God… This way we can better understand why Jesus prayed to God and thanked God for His Miracles. Mainly due to Christ humanity, but better understood through this concept, that they are not connected directly, but through this Triune God.

God - oo-0 BC ~ Jesus: 0 BC - 33AD ~ Holy Spirit 33AD - Present.
These are all the times at which each deity were present. God created to world and set us on track. Jesus came to teach the Gospel and set up the Church. The Holy Spirit came to give us all Salvation and to protect the Church.

Now my question is: Has their always been a triune God, and will their always and forever be a triune God?

The reason I ask this is because I wonder about this sometimes. Before Jesus, was their a Unitary God, which was God. Then God became Incarnate through his Divinity and became Human, there a Biune God was created, consisting of God and Jesus. Then at Christ ascension, he became the Holy Spirit, and formed the Triune God in which today we pray to today.

So please help me clarify here.

Also an extra question. When Jesus comes for the second coming, if the question above is in my perspective, that when the New Earth is made, God may become a new deity in which the new earth would be under authority from, and this Triune God would become a Quadrane God?

Now, does this theory contradict any Catholic teaching already?

And does this theory hold to any discussion?

Thank you!

 

[ThatOrthodoxGuy]

imgur.com/TQSZXV2

Haha. Just trying to be a little St. Augustine over here.

Now just thing of this. Three Deities: God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. These deities are combined in One Triune God. This Triune God is the God we know today.

Now Jesus is not connected to God. And God is not connected to the Holy Spirit directly; however, they are all unified under this One Triune God… This way we can better understand why Jesus prayed to God and thanked God for His Miracles. Mainly due to Christ humanity, but better understood through this concept, that they are not connected directly, but through this Triune God.

God - oo-0 BC ~ Jesus: 0 BC - 33AD ~ Holy Spirit 33AD - Present.
These are all the times at which each deity were present. God created to world and set us on track. Jesus came to teach the Gospel and set up the Church. The Holy Spirit came to give us all Salvation and to protect the Church.

Why are you separating them? There is only one God from the beginning till the end.
There are not three deities but ONE God.For where there is one they all are because there is only one God.

 

[JD27076]

That is why they are all connected under 1 Triune God… This 1 Triune God connects the three separated beings into 1 being. Praise for 1 goes to all 3.

It’s the same concept, but rather explained more differently.

 

[ThatOrthodoxGuy]

That is why they are all connected under 1 Triune God… This 1 Triune God connects the three separated beings.

But they are not separate? To say they are in anyway is to say there are three gods.

 

[bzkoss236]

They are not 3 deities, it is just one deity, and that is God. God has 3 persons, The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit.

To relate it to somethings, which are by no means perfect (part of why the Trinity is a Holy Mystery, because it cannot be easily defined):

1. Consider a small family unit with a father, mother, and a son. Each person is its own, but they are all the same family unit. Let’s say their last name is Smith. Let’s say the father’s name is John, Mother’s Jane, and son’s Junior. They are all their own person, individual, but they are all a Smith. Since they live in the same household, and since they are very close, they all know what is going on and what the others are doing.
2. Consider a person with multiple personality disorder. There is the original personality, but there are two other personalities that have always been there. They are each their own individual personality, but they reside within the same body.

Let me reiterate that these are not perfect relations.

This topic is one of those where I take a more Eastern Catholic approach and leave a Holy Mystery as a mystery. One which we may not understand until we make it to heaven. And even then, we may not, but who knows.

 

[ThatOrthodoxGuy]

I think St. Patrick used the sun as an example to describe the Most Holy Trinity. That the Light, warmth, and actually seeing it could be used to explain God a little easier. If I’m wrong then ignore this post.

 

[Arizona_Fat_Gir]

God is One Essence. The Father is the Source and Wellspring of the Trinity. Jesus said that to see God the Father to look at Him (Jesus) because they are one: The Father is in the Son, the Son is in the Father, and the Holy Spirit flows from the Father and the Son as a living Bond between them…

Since this is a profound mystery, we might use an example of something we understand, like water.

Water is the substance that comes out of the faucet. Ice is also water, but it is frozen. Steam is water, but it is hot. Ice is not steam. But because ice is water and steam is water, but in different forms, they are water.

 

[JimG]

Now my question is: Has their always been a triune God, and will their always and forever be a triune God

Yes, there has always been and will always be a triune God. The rest of your speculations are quite heterodox.

 

[Gorgias]

Sorry if I’m a little brusque in this reply, but I’m in a bit of a rush. However, having read your post, JD, I really wanted to answer some of your questions…

Now just thing of this. Three Deities: God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. These deities are combined in One Triune God. This Triune God is the God we know today.

No. One deity. Three persons within that deity. Also, your identification of the Second Person is incorrect: by saying ‘Jesus’, you imply that the Second Person did not exist until the Incarnation. That’s inaccurate: “In the beginning was the Word”…

Now Jesus is not connected to God.

Not true. Jesus was conceived of the Holy Spirit (i.e., of God) and of Mary. Therefore, at his conception, Jesus was intimately “connected” to God – He was God’s son!

And God is not connected to the Holy Spirit directly

Wow… again, no. The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son (NB: by ‘the Son’, we aren’t saying ‘Jesus’, but rather, ‘Logos, the Second Person of the Trinity’).

however, they are all unified under this One Triune God

To say that they are ‘unified’ implies that they are fundamentally different beings. That isn’t what the Church teaches. Rather, they are one God, but in three Persons.

God - oo-0 BC ~ Jesus: 0 BC - 33AD ~ Holy Spirit 33AD - Present.

Ouch. No, really – ouch! :hypno:

OK, let’s review:

• God the Father, God the Son (Logos), God the Holy Spirit: ∞
• The Trinity has existed before time, and they will exist after space-time as we know it goes out of existence.
• Jesus, the Christ: ~1 A.D. - ~33 A.D.), (~33 A.D. - ∞)
• As originally incarnated, Jesus ‘lived’ around 33 years.
• Following his resurrection, Jesus (in his glorified body) will live throughout space-time and throughout eternity
• (Just for the sake of completeness): Holy Spirit: ∞
• Although God didn’t send the Holy Spirit to humanity – in the role that we as Christians are familiar with – until after Jesus ascended to heaven, that doesn’t mean that the Holy Spirit began existence at that time.

Now my question is: Has their always been a triune God, and will their always and forever be a triune God?

Based on my answers above, I think you’ll see that the answers here are clearly ‘yes’ and ‘yes’…!

The reason I ask this is because I wonder about this sometimes. Before Jesus, was their a Unitary God, which was God.

No. God was a Trinity throughout eternity. As humans, we may have not been aware of this until a certain time in history, but that doesn’t imply that this reality began at the point we became aware of this truth (which, as it were, was divinely revealed!).

Also an extra question. When Jesus comes for the second coming, if the question above is in my perspective, that when the New Earth is made, God may become a new deity in which the new earth would be under authority from, and this Triune God would become a Quadrane God?

No. God will always be a Trinity; there’s no reason to suspect otherwise, based on divine revelation.

Now, does this theory contradict any Catholic teaching already?

Oh, goodness yes!

And does this theory hold to any discussion?

At the risk of sounding rude… no. However, it seems that some clarification was necessary. Given what I’ve said above, do you have any other questions?

Blessings,

G.

 

[Hasire]

We believe in One God, The Father. He who is always and has been always and will be always in communion with His Word and His Spirit Who are also God because they share the Divine Essence.

 

[Anthony_V]

We may understand the Triune God as three persons who are one in uncreated and divine substance.
We may also understand the Triune God as one uncreated and divine substance which subsists of three persons.

We may NOT understand the Triune God as a modal perspective, such that the Father, Son, and Spirit are merely different “perspectives” or “modes” of the uncreated divine substance. (Read: Modalists; scroll down the page) They are three distinct and immediately coexisting, consubstantial, and eternal persons.

If we were to use the water analogy, God would be vapor, liquid, and ice all at once.

 

[ahs]

I think St. Patrick used the sun as an example to describe the Most Holy Trinity. That the Light, warmth, and actually seeing it could be used to explain God a little easier. If I’m wrong then ignore this post.

Yes, this would be a fitting example.

Also you might think of it as God, being “spirit” and not “matter”, is infinite…at no point was he “created”…He simply “is”. Consider this God the Father. We call the Son, the Second Person, the “Word” of God. But as God is spirit, God’s “Word” is God’s thought…His “idea” even, of Who He is. Yet since God is not in “time”, He is infinite, then at every moment (were moments a reality in infinity) God is in existence, His Word/Thought/Idea of Himself also exists. This is the Father and Son, then. Being infinite, and being “love” (we say “God is Love” ), we can look to the Love God has for Who He is…the love that proceeds from Father and Son…a love so perfect that it is a living Love…and being infinite, also always “is” and not “created” and One with the Father and Son. One God, three Persons.

Liken this to the sun (pretend the sun always “is”, per se). The “father” is the big yellow ball of fire in the sky…regardless of our ability to perceive/see it. And the “son” is the light coming form it that allows us to perceive it…to see it. And the “holy spirit” is the warmth we feel coming from it. One sun…three distinct and very real aspects of that sun…none of them existing apart from the other at any moment of its existence…so to speak.

Realize of course that these analogies tend to fail at some point…then main thing it 3 distinct Persons in 1 Nature…not 3 similar natures…but only 1, with 3 Persons.

 

[Cheezboy]

I had some difficulty understanding,and explaining,the trinity until I tried to see how a cellphone network actually works.To be able to use a cellphone you have to have a subscription to a network and be close enough to a beacon of that network to get a signal.Now I saw God the Father as the network,God the Son as the beacon,God the Holy Spirit as the signal and me as the cellphone.Salvation is our subscription to the network (God the Father) and salvation gives us access to the cellphone beacon (God the Son) which enables us to receive the signal (God the Holy Spirit). The 3 are different entities and functions in different capacities yet they provide a singular service.Sometimes God uses the simple things in life to enable us to understand the profound.I hope this helps you like it did me,God bless you.

 

[Razanir]

We may understand the Triune God as three persons who are one in uncreated and divine substance.
We may also understand the Triune God as one uncreated and divine substance which subsists of three persons.

We may NOT understand the Triune God as a modal perspective, such that the Father, Son, and Spirit are merely different “perspectives” or “modes” of the uncreated divine substance. (Read: Modalists; scroll down the page) They are three distinct and immediately coexisting, consubstantial, and eternal persons.

If we were to use the water analogy, God would be vapor, liquid, and ice all at once.

I think we all agree that modalism is heresy. That doesn’t change the fact that if you’re trying to explain the Trinity to a little kid who doesn’t understand how all three can be the same, that the water analogy works as is. Most kids don’t know about these:
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[bzkoss236]

Water is the substance that comes out of the faucet. Ice is also water, but it is frozen. Steam is water, but it is hot. Ice is not steam. But because ice is water and steam is water, but in different forms, they are water.

I like this better than the ones I gave above.

 

[cajunhillbilly]

The mystery of the Trinity is something hard to grasp. It is so easy to slip into modalism, it isn’t funny. It is important to understand that the One God has always existed as Three distinct Persons. I like all that has been said above.