IS this action By a Courtship suitor moral? or abusive in any manner?

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LeAnneElizabeth

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I was not certain of which forum to post this question to, and was unsure if I am the only female in this sort of situation?
Since July 2001, I’ve had a good, and Nice friend, who claims to be a devout Cradle Catholic Gentleman, and He told me it would make him happy if I would be open to the idea of being “Courted” by him–towards discerning if The Marital Vocation might be in the future for our deepening friendship. Here is my Dilemma; Is it considered mentally, emotionally, or psychologically abusive (in the view of the Catholic Church), IF He told me He wants to Court me to discern Marriage & Family, while AT THE SAME TIME,… telling
me He is also strongly discerning a Vocation to the Priesthood???
For some reasoning I have a feeling this could be considered emotional and mentally abusive behaviors, yet, I also wonder Would the HOLY Catholic Church consider this
action by my friend towards me also be considered IMMORAL? (PS. every time I tell Him his action is abusive, He come back telling me He is NOT now has he ever been absuive to me nor anyone else. For the record, I have only been a relatively new convert to the Church since 2003–Easter.
 
I cannot say whether or not the action is abusive, but I would find it offensive. I do not think you are obligated to tolerate that behavior. It sounds like he has no idea what HE wants, let alone trying to discern what God desires for his life. It also sounds like he is trying to keep either you or the priesthood on the back burner, which is unflattering to both you and to our Lord. Maybe I sound too harsh. If so, I apologize. But both marriage and the priesthood demand such a high level of commitment and selflessness that this ‘one foot out the door’ behavior cannot possibly be honorable.
 
It is wrong of him to court both the Chruch and you at the same time, you cannot properly explore the two vocations at the same time he needs to try one first and then the other only once he concludes the first one is not his vocation.
 
Milesius said:
It is wrong of him to court both the Chruch and you at the same time, you cannot properly explore the two vocations at the same time he needs to try one first and then the other only once he concludes the first one is not his vocation.
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This is wisdom.
 
It’s probably a hard decision for him…either one. Both these vocations are likely life-long in nature. It’s a big deal! Who wouldn’t second guess themselves, or wonder what the alternative would be like.

He likely has an interneral struggle. I’m sure its not easy. Actually, I know its not. He probably just wants to make sure that the decision he makes, whatever it might be, is the right one. Maybe you can talk to him about the nature of this “double courtship” and why he is doing it that way?

I wouldn’t call it abusive though. It’s just a man struggling with a very heavy, life-long decision (marriage vs clergy). One has to make a very informed decision in these cases, and after much deliberation I’d imagine. How does one become informed? That’s where courship comes in.
 
I’m afraid I don’t see anything in the least abusive in the situation. One definition of psychological abuse is that it “includes verbal aggression, statements intended to humiliate or infantilize, insults, threats of abandonment or institutionalization.” How is a request for permission to start courtship anything like any of that? You may want to check out the definitions of emotional and psychological abuse at this link: domesticabuseproject.org/definitions_of_abuse.asp

How is it abusive, or even bad, for him to be honest with you about his trying to figure out whether his vocation is to the priesthood or to marriage? It sounds like he is trying to do his best–he is not sure which direction his vocation lies. Perhaps he feels that he cannot truly discern his vocation without experiencing some courtship, in which case you would be perfectly reasonable to refuse to be used this way (although I still don’t think it would be abusive). On the other hand, it might be that he had been thinking he might have a vocation to the priesthood but feels the Holy Spirit may be leading him in your direction instead.

It would be extremely dishonest and unkind if he wanted to court you without telling you about his possible vocation to the priesthood. I have never heard anything that said that any man who feels he may have a vocation to the priesthood needs to immediately cease dating (chastely of course). I’m assuming that he is not already in seminary (that would be a different matter altogether).

Ordinarily, when we are trying to decide between two alternatives, we find out as much as we can about both options and then decide. We don’t just find out about one, and then decide based on half of the information, which seems to be what people are suggesting.

If this man is someone you have been friends with for nine years, you must have some idea about whether you would be interested in a romantic relationship with him. The fact that you immediately jumped to the conclusion that he was being abusive looks like you would not be interested in a romantic relationship anyway. So just say that you don’t want to.

If you are interested in a romantic relationship, then you should voice your concerns about his possible priestly vocation and talk about it. If you’ve been friends this long, you need to talk about this reasonably anyway, so that whatever happens (or not) romantically, you will still have your friendship.

If he was actually your priest, then that would be abusive, making use of a power relationship to try to further his immoral romantic ends. If he were currently in seminary, it would be seriously inappropriate for him to be asking anyone to date, and his advisors in seminary would probably want to have a serious discussion with him about his vocation. However, if he is just thinking he might be called to the priesthood but might not be, it may or not be unwise to date, but I don’t think there is anything immoral about it.

–Jen
 
I think he needs to devote his time and energy to see if he’s called to the priesthood and nothing but. Its not fair to him or yourself for him to be discerning both the married life and a vocation as a religious.

But its not abusive because he’s not forcing you to do anything against your will. You can tell him thanks, but no thanks and pray for him and be his friend. But I don’t think it would be wise for you to open yourself up to a courtship if he’s not even sure being married is his vocation.
 
I certainly give him points for honesty, but he doesn’t get any for common sense. How can he expect you to be discerning whether marriage to him is in your future, when he may be entering the seminary?
I would tell him it’s been nice to know him, and please do let me know how the priesthood discernment turns out.
 
He sounds immature (and possibly, confused), regardless of his chronological age.

He needs some “space” so he can properly discern his vocation without the distractions of dating. Perhaps he should take a very long solitary retreat.
 
When I was just 18 and going through this decision I figured out that whether I pursued the priesthood or the girl I had to be all in for whichever I chose. He is certainly capable of figuring that out as well. It didn’t take a lot of spiritual maturity, just honestly about how my actions effected others and my own responsibilities.
 
I find what he is doing fine. I know that when people are discerning their vocations, vocation directors encourage them to have a relationship before joining a convent or seminary. During my courtship with my now Husband, I could have at any point left the relationship for religious life. We were not married and could freely choose to get out of a relationship. I do find it very important for a man or woman to let the person they are courting to know that they are discerning. I told him at the time that I wasn’t 100% sure what my calling was.
There was a tough situation where a man was courting a woman for a year and a few weeks before their wedding he called it off and told her he is called to join seminary. It was difficult on her, i’m sure, but they were not married. He did break their promise, but a promise broken is better than a vow broken!
 
Abusive? No, probably not. Confusing? Yes, for both of you. If he was dating you and then decided to date someone else at the same time to test out his vocation with “her”, you could see that this was a wrong approach to discernment. The vocation to religious life/priesthood should be explored first. One can’t give his/her whole heart and soul to more than one love.
 
LeAnneElizabeth said:
I was not certain of which forum to post this question to, and was unsure if I am the only female in this sort of situation?
Since July 2001, I’ve had a good, and Nice friend, who claims to be a devout Cradle Catholic Gentleman, and He told me it would make him happy if I would be open to the idea of being “Courted” by him–towards discerning if The Marital Vocation might be in the future for our deepening friendship. Here is my Dilemma; Is it considered mentally, emotionally, or psychologically abusive (in the view of the Catholic Church), IF He told me He wants to Court me to discern Marriage & Family, while AT THE SAME TIME,… telling
me He is also strongly discerning a Vocation to the Priesthood???
For some reasoning I have a feeling this could be considered emotional and mentally abusive behaviors, yet, I also wonder Would the HOLY Catholic Church consider this
action by my friend towards me also be considered IMMORAL? (PS. every time I tell Him his action is abusive, He come back telling me He is NOT now has he ever been absuive to me nor anyone else. For the record, I have only been a relatively new convert to the Church since 2003–Easter.
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I would encourage him to discern his vocation first, and once he’s discerned if his vocation is marriage, he should discern his partner. Seminaries are designed for people to discern, and many people should leave if that discernment tells them it isn’t there vocation.

I doubt he is trying to be abusive, but I would indicate that it is unfair to put you in a place that is, in effect, competing with the priesthood. He is likely a very conflicted and unsure person looking for answers, and he should first discern with the Church on vocation.
 
Hi. I respectfully think most of the posters are completely wrong. In a nutshell, I think what the guy is doing is wrong, and, yes, abusive, at least to the extent the OP’s feelings are not considered. Perhaps not deliberately, but perhaps deliberately. Let me explain:

By saying, “I’m considering the priestood!” the guy is placing the OP in the position where she may feel forced to choose something NOW. That is IMHO abusive to the extent it carries a subtle threat: it’s tantamount to an ultimatum. The threat may be, “pick me now or I’m gone!” It may also be an effort, even if unintended, to lay guilt: “I’m going to potentially give up the priesthood for you!.” It also may be bogus – it may be an effort to make oneself “appear more catholic.”

OP’s guy has to a choice to make. That choice is this: Be a priest, or be open to mariage with someone. The choice is NOT “be a priest or be married to one particular person.” He must decide his choice first, before he even explores marriage with one particular person. What OP’s friend is doing is trying to essenially have the OP help him decide…and that is way WAY too mch pressure to place on a woman who only recently came to the faith herself.

So, I say it is abusive even if unintended. I also say it’s confused, and immature, and possiblymanipulative: It absolutely falls into the category of “messing with a woman’s mind,” and to me that can be – and IMHO here is - “abusive.”

-VdT
 
Put it this way - it’s exactly the same situation as if the gentleman told you that he was at the same time discerning marriage with another woman as well as yourself.

Would it be moral? I guess so, as long as he is clear and upfront with everyone concerned. Is it abusive? In the sense that he’s subjecting you to a lot of uncertainty, and there may be mental anguish goes along with the idea that his focus is not solely on marriage with you, it may be.

Does it make sense? Is it a good way of going about things? No way. As has been said, discerning marriage or the priesthood is really something that requires all one’s attention and energy until such time as one is clear that one isn’t called to one vocation, then and only then should one move on to the other.
 
I think after nine years it is about time he made up his mind one way or the other and stop stringing you along.
I would advise you to give him an ultamatum you or the priesthood. He takes you up the Isle or he goes into the Seminary or whatever he wants to do.
You have a right to a husband and marriage and he is holding you up from that possability.

Antrim
 
I’d second Antrim’s comment in that after 9 years he really ought to have made some progress with his thinking. That said, he really does sound torn over the decision he’s going to have to make at some point.

Best advice is talk it over with him. He’ll probably welcome an honest and open discussion, provided you’re willing to support him whatever choice he does finally make. It’s possible he’s trying hard not to disappoint you and can’t face causing you pain if he chooses priesthood?

I certainly don’t think for a moment he’s being abusive. It’s probably causing him quite some agonies actually. I know how I agonised over telling my Dad I wanted to become a priest - responsibilities of an only child towards a lone elderly parent, etc. Talking it through really helped me.

Are you willing to have that sort of conversation with him? Are you open hearted enough to be able to let him go without resentment or rancour if that’s what he ends up needing to do?
 
He shouldn’t be taking you for a “test drive” to see if his vocation is the married life or religious life. He needs to clear that up in his mind before he starts courting. The thing is that if he tries the priesthood first but sees it isn’t for him after some time in seminary, at least he isn’t hurting anyone by leaving his studies.

But if he courts you and discovers that his real vocation is indeed the Church, then you will end up very hurt.

So my inclination is to gently tell him that you aren’t interested. Don’t even consider saying you’ll wait for him while he makes up his mind or will reconsider if he declines the priesthood. Just say no gently, and move on with your own life. He has no right to have you put it on hold while he sorts himself out.

I am assuming in all this that your feelings for him aren’t reciprocal. If they are then you have a bigger problem.

I don’t think he’s guilty of mindful emotional abuse. I rather think he has an immature personality, which is in itself another danger signal.
 
I wouldn’t find his actions “abusive” unless he were trying to coerce you or pressure you in some way, which it doesn’t seem that he is doing. I agree with the poster who said that this isn’t really all that different than if he were dating different women; as long as everyone is honest and up-front about the situation and is remaining chaste, it’s not wrong or immoral. But it sounds like he has some issues to sort out in his own mind. If I were in your shoes, I would move on with my own life, telling him that if/when he has made up his mind and has definitely discerned that he is called to married life, to call me and that if I am still available and interested, we’ll take it from there. In the mean time, you are free to date whomever you wish, and if someone else turns out to the The One, so be it. But I certainly wouldn’t put my life on hold for a man who can’t make up his mind about his own life. God bless.
 
You say that you have known this person since 2001; however you do not say anything about your ages and when he started to think about the vocation to the priesthood and the vocation to married life.

In general his behavior is not abusive at all. I think that he is being honest and confused, thus the need for discernment. You have to understand that a man before becoming a priest must be sure that he is open to the idea of marriage, if not then we have a red flag.

Now if this man has been and adult for the last 9 years, and he has interacted with you for all those years and he has been considering both vocations since then, I would say that you have a major red flag and I would suggest to distance yourself from this individual ASAP. He is not abusive, but for sure he still needs a lot of growing up.
 
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