Is This An Act of Defiance?

[George720]

Thank you all for your replies! I am a college student, and my parents have never told me not to switch rites. Rather, I am worried about shunning the rite they raised me in.

Good - I would ask them, but I do not know your relationship with them, or how set they are in their post Vatican II “tradition”… You could, of course, go to the very traditional pre-Vatican II Catholic Mass… They are hard to find…

I am not set on changing rites, I just find the eastern rites more apostolic and traditional.

They are totally more Apostolic and Traditional, and the Catholic Church is in a gathering crisis because of that and other really thorny issues… If you feel called to the Ancient Faith rite of the Eastern Churches, you can take small steps that fully consistent with your parents’ preferences… And you can study them more now that you are in college…

May God illumine your feet…

geo

 

[dochawk]

Some specific reasons are in the canon law for transfer.

Of which those like these are sufficient.

It is not a barrier (but a transition should not be whimsical).

Anyone who feels that transition would be to his spiritual advantage is eligible.

Every last one.

Ny observation is those that actually transition are the minority.

Personally, I haven’t done it, not because I shouldn’t be byzantine, but rather because I should be Melkite, and need their presence here before I can do that.

And for the OP: there is no rush. Do keep in mind that you can only do this once in a lifetime; once you transition, you can’t do it again (which is why I haven’t).

 

[Vico]

Vico:

Some specific reasons are in the canon law for transfer.

Of which those like these are sufficient.

It is not a barrier (but a transition should not be whimsical).

Anyone who feels that transition would be to his spiritual advantage is eligible.

Every last one.

Ny observation is those that actually transition are the minority.

Personally, I haven’t done it, not because I shouldn’t be byzantine, but rather because I should be Melkite, and need their presence here before I can do that.

And for the OP: there is no rush. Do keep in mind that you can only do this once in a lifetime; once you transition, you can’t do it again (which is why I haven’t).

Actually everyone is not eligible, which means “having the right to do or obtain something”. The Church must approve each case.

 

[dochawk]

And does approve each case, barring truly odd requests (which don’t get submitted by the clergy in the first place).

If a renegade RC bishop were to deny an honest request, you could expect a smack-down from Rome.

(And I don’t get into debates about legalisms, definitions, or terms when my hourly isn’t being paid . . . )

 

[Vico]

And does approve each case, barring truly odd requests (which don’t get submitted by the clergy in the first place).

If a renegade RC bishop were to deny an honest request, you could expect a smack-down from Rome.

(And I don’t get into debates about legalisms, definitions, or terms when my hourly isn’t being paid . . . )

Some transfers are denied as a matter of fact.

“In the Eastern regions the Congregation for the Eastern Churches rarely authorizes the transfer from an Eastern Church sui iuris to another, and even more reluctantly to the Latin Church. Authorization for a transfer is more frequently given in the so-called diaspora when, among other reasons, members of the same family belong to different Churches.”

Ref: Inter-Ecclesial Relations Between Eastern and Latin Catholics A Canonical-Pastoral Handbook English Edition, George Dmitry Gallaro, Washington DC, CLSA, 2009, p. 28

 

[George720]

And I don’t get into debates about legalisms, definitions, or terms when my hourly isn’t being paid . . .

You know - I didn’t reply earlier, when the dot dot dash dash canons were dragged out and a carefully nuanced definition and ruling were being paraded, all in the name of the precious Authority of our Ecclesiastical Superiors… It is such a foreign element to the Catholic and Orthodox Faith of the Fathers that I just sighed and moved on, only to be brought up short by your smack-back remark here that cut me to the quick… I stand in your debt, my Brother…

We had a Church in California - an Evangelical convert Church - And they took the line that their local Church was fully and totally in charge of the lives of all the members of that Church, and the Church prospered and grew… Clergy determined who could marry whom, who could go to which schools, and on and on and on… The Bishop got wind of it and deposed the Priest and took the Church back into Diocesan hands… That is NOT the Faith of our Fathers, regardless of the abiding and ontological Authority of Her God-bearing Elders… She is not meant to be a pandemic authority structure for social manipulation… Christians are free, and can do as they please as they live their lives in the world… (Clergy not so much, qua Clergy…)

But the whole approach, the legalistic citing of the definitive Canon of the Church, to be able to control which Church parish a person CAN become a member of, where PERMISSION has to be given, and the move APPROVED by the higher-ups, is most certainly not Orthodox Catholocism…

Personally, I found both our local Church’s and this Canon-definitional approach to such matters a little creepy… There needs to be a certain level of myob plus prayer in these things…

geo

 

[poche]

How do your parents feel about the eastern rites?

 

[HomeschoolDad]

We had a Church in California - an Evangelical convert Church - And they took the line that their local Church was fully and totally in charge of the lives of all the members of that Church, and the Church prospered and grew… Clergy determined who could marry whom, who could go to which schools, and on and on and on… The Bishop got wind of it and deposed the Priest and took the Church back into Diocesan hands… That is NOT the Faith of our Fathers, regardless of the abiding and ontological Authority of Her God-bearing Elders… She is not meant to be a pandemic authority structure for social manipulation… Christians are free, and can do as they please as they live their lives in the world… (Clergy not so much, qua Clergy…)

This sounds very bizarre. Was this a Latin Rite Catholic church? An Eastern Catholic church? A church not in union with Rome?

What is an “Evangelical convert Church”?

 

[George720]

This sounds very bizarre.

It was very bizarre… They thought they were simply living as Christ would have them to live… And their Bishop came and took the Church back over from them, excommunicated their Priest, and emplaced a new one who un-did all those aberrant clerical behaviors…

Was this a Latin Rite Catholic church? An Eastern Catholic church? A church not in union with Rome?

It was a convert Church from the CCC that had an overly monasticized understanding of the Parish Church, based on their studies of Christian monasticism… They were reigned in…

fwiw, Their pastor, on a pilgrimage to Mt. Athos, was told by a monk there that he was going to get into a LOT of trouble, and he was dumbfounded, saying all he was doing was living a Christian life for himself and his parish Church, and the monk repeated it - A LOT of trouble…

And he did, and is now reposed…

The matter was eventually resolved, of course…

geo

CCC = Campus Crusade for Christ of decades ago…

 

[HomeschoolDad]

HomeschoolDad:

Was this a Latin Rite Catholic church? An Eastern Catholic church? A church not in union with Rome?

It was a convert Church from the CCC that had an overly monasticized understanding of the Parish Church, based on their studies of Christian monasticism… They were reigned in…

I think I’ve heard of them, the Evangelical Orthodox Church, right? I didn’t know whether they were still around.

 

[George720]

the Evangelical Orthodox Church, right? I didn’t know whether they were still around.

That it the one - They invented their own Orthodoxy in practice based on what they saw and read and heard, but no Orthodox Church would receive them, until the Antiochian Metropolitan did… He said he did so because he asked the question: “What will I say to God when He asks me why I kept them out of the Church?” And he had no answer…

So they are all now a part of the Antiochian Church, for some 20 years or so, a bunch of recovering Evangelicals having their lives transformed… Or not!

geo