Is this an alien or a horror movie monster? WHAT!? THIS is suppose to be Jesus!?

[benedictgal]

I think this is entirely appropriate to the role of Icons given in the Catechism:

“the contemplation of sacred icons, united with meditation on the Word of God and the singing of liturgical hymns, enters into the harmony of the signs of celebration so that the mystery celebrated is imprinted in the heart’s memory and is then expressed in the new life of the faithful” CCC 1162

Clearly in the 21st century, icons no longer need to be a literal telling of the story, the “poor man’s Bible” as they were in the middle ages. We know the basics. The Word of God, which we can all read and hear for ourselves, tells us the whole outline and gives us the whole basis for meditation. All the same, art speaks to the emotions and leads us deeper into those mysteries.

Of course, I don’t think the Church had this in mind when the Catechism was written. This morning while at work, I remembered what Gemma wrote and I burst out laughing. Luckily, I had the door closed. I’m sorry, but after the initial shock, I just thought that these stations were the most bizarre thing I have ever seen. And, after seeing a couple of Andy Warhol movies in my late teens, I though nothing could shock me anymore. Wrong!!!

 

[whatevergirl]

I’ll agree with that. But I think it would be superb for decorating the inside of an outhouse. There’s no doubt it would certainly make you want to finish moving your bowels and getting out as soon as possible.

hahahaha I giggled out loud on this silly comment!!! I was reading along and then I hit the word bowels, that word has always made me laugh since I was a kid! How did you know that?

 

[system]

Clearly in the 21st century we shouldn’t have to have an art degree to meditate on the stations

If anyone is interested in a serious piano work based on the stations of the cross, I have posted info on one in the popular media area:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=3206953#post3206953

 

[whatevergirl]

If anyone is interested in a serious piano work based on the stations of the cross, I have posted info on one in the popular media area:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=3206953#post3206953

hi max;
I just clicked on the link. I play piano, and I really found the music to be quite moving, although when I clicked play, different pictures of the stations didn’t come up, but you could at least envision the scene with the music. Has a baroque feel to his music. Thank you for posting this.

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

I never said they were theologically unsound. I’m sure the artist got this from his gut and was truly expressing his feelings on this. It is a form of sacred art by way of it’s subject, but not all works of sacred art or music composition (whether considered genius, inspiring, beautiful or downright ugly and tasteless) belong within the church or the mass.

If this is a local tradition in that part of France, do all parishes in that area have the same kind of sacred artwork in their churches? I’ve only been to Paris a few times and have “church- hopped” there, but didn’t notice that in those churches.

It could be a local city/church tradition. What belongs in the Church is often dependent on the tastes of the parishioners. They chose to put it there and that is their right. They can choose to change it anytime they want.

 

[Steeltemplar]

It could be a local city/church tradition. What belongs in the Church is often dependent on the tastes of the parishioners. They chose to put it there and that is their right. They can choose to change it anytime they want.

Wait a moment. We don’t actually know that the parishioners chose this, do we?

Was this a majority decision? Or was it a vocal and influential minority? Perhaps even a handful of people in the parish staff?

Unless you have some kind of proof that the parishioners really wants this, then we should not assume either way.

 

[Ridgerunner]

It could be a local city/church tradition. What belongs in the Church is often dependent on the tastes of the parishioners. They chose to put it there and that is their right. They can choose to change it anytime they want.

Could be, but I doubt it unless it’s on the Left Bank. I expect the parish priest, or some diocesan bureaucrat made the choice and the people there, just like here, have to live with it.

 

[Steeltemplar]

Could be, but I doubt it unless it’s on the Left Bank. I expect the parish priest, or some diocesan bureaucrat made the choice and the people there, just like here, have to live with it.

Exactly! That sort of thing happens all to often.

 

[Sarabande]

Could be, but I doubt it unless it’s on the Left Bank. I expect the parish priest, or some diocesan bureaucrat made the choice and the people there, just like here, have to live with it.

I agree. In my cathedral parish about 25 years ago, they began to tear out the beautiful side altars and replace them with what many in the diocese called vomit. A wealthy donor had commissioned this “art-work” (It was like the kitschy-like stuff you’d see in your religion textbooks back in the 80s) for each altar to represent the sacraments, I believe.

Well, after the first two went up, people were outraged that they would have replaced artistic beauty with junk. They were angry and appalled, that the diocese had to stop the work. Very typical of the type of people in my city, which I’m not always proud of - sometimes it’s a pain in the neck, but in this instance, I’m glad they were tough. I think if this was in any other normal city, this wouldn’t have happened and the people there would have had to put up with it.

Because of money issues, we’ve had these two altars until late last year. An anonymous donor purchased two beautiful side altars and the stations of the cross (marble figures) from a recently closed parish built around the same time as the Cathedral. The sculpture of the stations was the same sculpture of what the Cathedral has as well. The altars are not finished yet, but everyone is so happy that the Cathedral is being brought back to full beauty.

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

Wait a moment. We don’t actually know that the parishioners chose this, do we?

Was this a majority decision? Or was it a vocal and influential minority? Perhaps even a handful of people in the parish staff?

Unless you have some kind of proof that the parishioners really wants this, then we should not assume either way.

Not officially, that would be inter-parish politics. The best way to find out is to find where these are displayed and ask about them.

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

Could be, but I doubt it unless it’s on the Left Bank. I expect the parish priest, or some diocesan bureaucrat made the choice and the people there, just like here, have to live with it.

The only way to know is to ask the local Diocese for more details (if they are willing to give them out).

 

[Mirdath]

Wait a moment. We don’t actually know that the parishioners chose this, do we?

As far as ‘we’ know, these are not displayed in a parish. I was unable to find any indication they were anything other than a web-only exhibition.

 

[Steeltemplar]

As far as ‘we’ know, these are not displayed in a parish. I was unable to find any indication they were anything other than a web-only exhibition.

Yes, good point.

 

[benedictgal]

As far as ‘we’ know, these are not displayed in a parish. I was unable to find any indication they were anything other than a web-only exhibition.

I hope that you are right. I’d sure be afraid to walk into a church and come face to face with THAT. It would most certainly be a close encounter of the worst kind.

Incidentally, I don’t think that these stations will make it to Pope Benedict’s art collection any time soon.

 

[Sarabande]

As far as ‘we’ know, these are not displayed in a parish. I was unable to find any indication they were anything other than a web-only exhibition.

Well, if that’s the case, then it really is just like your average art exhibition with viewers critiquing or loving it. Just like if you attend a sacred music concert in sponsored by a parish. Some of the music will be totally appropriate for liturgy, some not. Some will be inspired and others repulsed

Actually, I thought this discussion on the whole was very interesting. Thanks for an enjoyable read and discussion.

 

[benedictgal]

Well, if that’s the case, then it really is just like your average art exhibition with viewers critiquing or loving it. Just like if you attend a sacred music concert in sponsored by a parish. Some of the music will be totally appropriate for liturgy, some not. Some will be inspired and others repulsed

Actually, I thought this discussion on the whole was very interesting. Thanks for an enjoyable read and discussion.

It really was, and funny, too. Let’s hope that we don’t see these artistic gems at a cathedral near us!

 

[Mirdath]

If the Church doesn’t want them, we’d be more than happy to give them a home here

 

[GemmaRose]

I just read the last few pages of posts, and agree that I wouldn’t mind them in a museum (although they would still be, in my opinion, HIDEOUS). I, along with many others in this thread, just don’t deem them appropriate in a church. I don’t even think they’re appropriate on a Catholic website.

To whatevergirl, I’ve never liked any artwork with portrays Jesus - Baby, Child or Man - as a blue-eyed blond, although I can understand that artists down through the ages have portrayed Him in a way most identifiable with the audience who would view the artwork.

But, I just don’t think He should be portrayed as Voltron from the planet Zardook. :bigyikes:

“I wish that my heart could beat, that I could live and breathe only for Jesus, I wish that my tongue could utter no other name than that of Jesus; that my eye could see only Jesus; that my pen could write only about Jesus, and that my thoughts could soar to nothing but Jesus. I have often wondered where on earth there might be something on which I could center my love. But neither on earth nor in heaven do I find any such thing but only my beloved Jesus… I am the fruit of your passion, Jesus, born of your wounds. O Jesus, seek me in love; I no longer possess anything; you have stolen my heart…” - St. Gemma Galgani

 

[Mirdath]

I just don’t think He should be portrayed as Voltron

img212.imageshack.us/img212/1474/voltronlu7.jpg
?

I don’t see the resemblance

 

[Wolseley]

I agree. In my cathedral parish about 25 years ago, they began to tear out the beautiful side altars and replace them with what many in the diocese called vomit. A wealthy donor had commissioned this “art-work” (It was like the kitschy-like stuff you’d see in your religion textbooks back in the 80s) for each altar to represent the sacraments, I believe.

Well, after the first two went up, people were outraged that they would have replaced artistic beauty with junk. They were angry and appalled, that the diocese had to stop the work. Very typical of the type of people in my city, which I’m not always proud of - sometimes it’s a pain in the neck, but in this instance, I’m glad they were tough. I think if this was in any other normal city, this wouldn’t have happened and the people there would have had to put up with it.

Because of money issues, we’ve had these two altars until late last year. An anonymous donor purchased two beautiful side altars and the stations of the cross (marble figures) from a recently closed parish built around the same time as the Cathedral. The sculpture of the stations was the same sculpture of what the Cathedral has as well. The altars are not finished yet, but everyone is so happy that the Cathedral is being brought back to full beauty.

There is a parish in Grand Rapids, Michigan, which is very orthodox (it’s one of the few parishes I have ever been to where the Novus Ordo is celebrated correctly, strictly adhering to the rubrics). It’s a beautiful old neo-Gothic church with a lot of statues—the Stations of the Cross are all in Polish—and it was spared the liturgical desecra…(I’m sorry, renovations) of Vatican II for the most part.

Well, back in the early 1980’s, they got a new priest, who immediately started making plans to gut the church and turn it into one of those empty barns the progressives love so much. The parish council locked horns with him, and lost; and much to his annoyance, they went and appealed to the parishioners.

Next thing you knew, there was an all-out war between the new priest and his parish----the parishioners were one step shy of pitchforks, torches, and a rope, and the bishop (another progressive who adamantly refused to allow the indult TLM anywhere in the diocese during his tenure, and who mercifully retired years ago) had to reassign the priest before somebody decorated a telephone pole with him.

I certainly don’t advocate stringing up misguided progressives, of course, but on the other hand, I don’t advocate gutting Gothic churches, either. And the fact remains that it’s still one of the loveliest churches inside that you’ll ever see. Not an inch of greenish-gold shag carpeting anywhere.