Is this an almost trueish understanding?

[Godlovestrength]

It seems that some people who bash the Charismatic Movement, or other groups of divine loving God generally have little understanding of Contemplative Prayer as well. They know how to say the Rosary and other prayers. This seems possibly to be the their depth of their relationship with God. Anything beyond discursive prayer, seems to be beyond or to deep for their understanding of "living with or giving to " God, and so they feel its their Catholic obligation to reject it or ear bash other groups.

Is this an almost trueish understanding?
Godbless

 

[Coreopisis]

It seems that some people who bash the Charismatic Movement, or other groups of divine loving God generally have little understanding of Contemplative Prayer as well. They know how to say the Rosary and other prayers. This seems possibly to be the their depth of their relationship with God. Anything beyond discursive prayer, seems to be beyond or to deep for their understanding of "living with or giving to " God, and so they feel its their Catholic obligation to reject it or ear bash other groups.

Is this an almost trueish understanding?
Godbless

I don’ think we can possibly know for certain the depth of anyones relationship with God. I think that their judgement is based on their own understanding and their own experiance. We can expect nothing more from them as their understanding and experiance is as valid as everyone elses.

A good friend told me once “God loves variety” and in this love for variety he made people who feel closer to Him through the Charasmatic movement and those who feel closer to him through traditional means. It is really no surprise that some don’t understand the other. We are all human and prone to judgement and sin. If you see people judgeing what you feel they don’t understand you should pray for them.

 

[Godlovestrength]

[A good friend told me once “God loves variety” and in this love for variety he made people who feel closer to Him through the Charasmatic movement and those who feel closer to him through traditional means. It is really no surprise that some don’t understand the other. We are all human and prone to judgement and sin. If you see people judgeing what you feel they don’t understand you should pray for them.
[/QUOTE]

Thank you for that I can agree with it and accept that there is to be NO judgment.
So how would you feel or relate if a person were to say that " those in the charismatic renewal are to be shuned since they seem to be nothing more than fundimentalists, that is not the catholic way"

Godbless

 

[Coreopisis]

[A good friend told me once “God loves variety” and in this love for variety he made people who feel closer to Him through the Charasmatic movement and those who feel closer to him through traditional means. It is really no surprise that some don’t understand the other. We are all human and prone to judgement and sin. If you see people judgeing what you feel they don’t understand you should pray for them.

Thank you for that I can agree with it and accept that there is to be NO judgment.
So how would you feel or relate if a person were to say that " those in the charismatic renewal are to be shuned since they seem to be nothing more than fundimentalists, that is not the catholic way"

Godbless
[/quote]

I would tell them that I respect their opinion and that if they truely feel that it is not the Catholic way they should perhaps talk to a Priest or write to the Pope to express their concerns because it is approved by the church. Then I would say that until then the Catholic thing to do, would be to pray for our brothers and sisters and put the judgement and the outcome into God’s hands.

Then if I felt irritated I would say to myself ‘love and forgiveness’ that always helps.

If they continued to behave in a non-christian way I would simply not talk to them anymore and pray for them for I find I have little success in trying to change such strong opinions. Sometimes people get caught up in their own view of things and only God can change their minds. This is why I think prayer is so important.

Peace,
Sarah

 

[mediatrixx]

I don’t know. I would have to disagree, I think. To be quite honest, I really do not like the charismatic movement a whole lot. The only thing that keeps me from downright scoffing at it is the fact that St. Teresa of Ávila wrote about a type of prayer like this–when people speak in tongues. So I know that there is some truth to the charismatic movement, but it still bothers me whenever I come across images or film of it. This might be because I associate it with Protestantism, and well…we won’t go into that.

I would say that people who don’t like the CM may or may not be well informed about other types of prayer, but that is not my case. I really do love what some people might call centering prayer. It’s a wonderful way to spend time IMO. It’s just that I see that as so much more different than people speaking non-words and doing unusual things.

I don’t know. I just wanted to share and see. Maybe my post has proved your point. LOL

 

[fhansen]

If she were alive today I think St Teresa of Avila might be considered fundamentalist by some in todays’ Church just because she was so adamantly orthodox in her obedience to Church teachings. But I doubt she would comprehend what happens in a Charismatic meeting.

 

[water]

It seems that some people who bash the Charismatic Movement, or other groups of divine loving God generally have little understanding of Contemplative Prayer as well. They know how to say the Rosary and other prayers. This seems possibly to be the their depth of their relationship with God. Anything beyond discursive prayer, seems to be beyond or to deep for their understanding of "living with or giving to " God, and so they feel its their Catholic obligation to reject it or ear bash other groups.

Is this an almost trueish understanding?
Godbless

Your understanding is inconclusive.

We can not measure the depth of one’s relationship with God based on the types of prayers they use. The type of prayers we are using is more like an exterior practice.

Combining the exterior practice and the interior practice of one soul, which we cannot tell, is his depth in relationship with God.

It is not true that those who do not understand about the movement knows a little about contemplative prayer. Contemplative and Charismatic are two different things which does not depend on each other.

It is everyone’s obligation to help, by different means, those who might go on the wrong path - in their spiritual journey. Note that I am not referring to any particular path here.

For Charismatic movement, while I recognize many are loving and enthusiastic about their faith, I also see among them (who are also very enthusiastic) who are lack of humility in what they think they believe. I would not go into detail here unless you want me to tell you.

 

[DL82]

St Bonaventure, himself both a deeply contemplative mystic and a man of extraordinary Christian learning, so much so that he is regarded as an equal to St Thomas Aquinas among the doctors of the Church, said that an illiterate old lady could love God even more than he himself.

Not all of us have the capacity to pray or understand God in the same way, but all of us can love Him with equal devotion.

 

[Godlovestrength]

St Bonaventure, himself both a deeply contemplative mystic and a man of extraordinary Christian learning, so much so that he is regarded as an equal to St Thomas Aquinas among the doctors of the Church, said that an illiterate old lady could love God even more than he himself.

Not all of us have the capacity to pray or understand God in the same way, but all of us can love Him with equal devotion.

And what he wrote is biblical, in that Jesus tells us that John the Baptist was the greatest however “the least of all is greater than John”

YOu are right not all of us have "big BUT " here that we all could have the capacity should we let go and let God. ( I believe??)

Godbless

 

[Godlovestrength]

Your understanding is inconclusive.

We can not measure the depth of one’s relationship with God based on the types of prayers they use. The type of prayers we are using is more like an exterior practice.

Combining the exterior practice and the interior practice of one soul, which we cannot tell, is his depth in relationship with God.

It is not true that those who do not understand about the movement knows a little about contemplative prayer. Contemplative and Charismatic are two different things which does not depend on each other.

It is everyone’s obligation to help, by different means, those who might go on the wrong path - in their spiritual journey. Note that I am not referring to any particular path here.

For Charismatic movement, while I recognize many are loving and enthusiastic about their faith, I also see among them (who are also very enthusiastic) who are lack of humility in what they think they believe. I would not go into detail here unless you want me to tell you.

Hi! water Iwonder though is it that I wrote inconclusivly …or… that what I wrote was all that I wished to convey? that all Iwrote was all I wished to relate to without going into other leads that could get a person off track? In which case I would be leading the same way as you have expressed.

Godbless

 

[Godlovestrength]

If she were alive today I think St Teresa of Avila might be considered fundamentalist by some in todays’ Church just because she was so adamantly orthodox in her obedience to Church teachings. But I doubt she would comprehend what happens in a Charismatic meeting.

I always thought that she would be considered over the top and would she have any followers at all I wonder.
But for me I love her lack of thought of self in giviing to our Heavenly Father.

Godbless.

 

[water]

Hi! water Iwonder though is it that I wrote inconclusivly …or… that what I wrote was all that I wished to convey? that all Iwrote was all I wished to relate to without going into other leads that could get a person off track? In which case I would be leading the same way as you have expressed.

Godbless

Inconclusive in a sense that you can not tell what their relationship with God based on those exterior devotions/way of praying. Basically, I disagree with what you said or your understanding is not right except one thing: one should not bash the others and vice versa.

 

[Godlovestrength]

I would tell them that I respect their opinion and that if they truely feel that it is not the Catholic way they should perhaps talk to a Priest or write to the Pope to express their concerns because it is approved by the church. Then I would say that until then the Catholic thing to do, would be to pray for our brothers and sisters and put the judgement and the outcome into God’s hands.

Then if I felt irritated I would say to myself ‘love and forgiveness’ that always helps.

If they continued to behave in a non-christian way I would simply not talk to them anymore and pray for them for I find I have little success in trying to change such strong opinions. Sometimes people get caught up in their own view of things and only God can change their minds. This is why I think prayer is so important.

Peace,
Sarah

Hi Sarah
I used to work with people who for 19 years would continus to relate in nonchristian ways and each day they jput me down and each day I prayed for them. In fact I prayed a 365 day novena took 4 houres and through this they still put me down little did it matter. I have God with me I had a strong relationship with St Therese (little flower) to help me.

I belonged to the charismatic renewal and our cultural prayer group so this all helped me.
The spiritual prayer group (charismatic) and others all put together could not be crushed. At least 7 of them called me over to a prayer group and they were all there. 2 Years latter they died of canser but they told me “don’t worry olli we know where we are going”.
My strength came from the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
Godbless.

 

[Godlovestrength]

Basically, I disagree with what you said or your understanding is not right except one thing: one should not bash the others and vice versa.

Would you like to extend that to as much as you wish I don’t mind I could learn here.
Godbless.

 

[water]

Would you like to extend that to as much as you wish I don’t mind I could learn here.
Godbless.

I’d probably just point back to my first reply.

I also like to add another thing - If you see others talk not too nice about the movement, you could ask if some of them have any negative experiences about the movement (not about what they believe about the movement). This way, you might bring this concern to your Charismatic group at your parish and have some good discussion in order to have unity.

For those who do not believe in the movement, I wouldn’t worry much about it. Pray for them as you pray for others.

Personally, I enjoy the group at my parish but not 2 other groups at different parishes where lots of judgments and pride - this problem is due to the fact they are new and do not have a good spiritual direction or they do not believe they should listen to anybody besides “God tell me this, and that is all truth and I would not believe advices from people who don’t speak in tongue”. Those who try to give advice had been considered as against them.

One of the 2 groups finally learns that they need to listen to their own pastor and start to love to study bible with folks who don’t speak in tongue. The other group does not only like to join the Bible study group with others, they also consider the Bible group having something against them.

The problems mentioned above are only examples; there are more problems. This weakens the unity of the 2 parishes.

The group at my parish is awesome and I go there every Thursday.

 

[LilyM]

If she were alive today I think St Teresa of Avila might be considered fundamentalist by some in todays’ Church just because she was so adamantly orthodox in her obedience to Church teachings. But I doubt she would comprehend what happens in a Charismatic meeting.

I can’t help but think of St Padre Pio as well - he both passionately advocated and himself almost constantly prayed the Rosary, and I don’t get the impression that he would’ ve understood or endorsed the Charismatic Movement either.

Yet who would dare to say that this Saint, who was close enough to Christ to receive His very stigmata, wasn’t pretty much as close as a person can be to God, and every bit as much so as any Charismatic Catholic?

This is not to bash the Charismatic movement, which is too young, I think, for its fruits to properly be judged. The Rosary, on the other hand, has been around for centuries, and has produced some extraordinary fruit among those who are devoted to it - St Dominic (who gave it the basic form we know today) and St Pio being probably the most obvious - not to mention the resounding victory of the Battle of Lepanto which was aided by the Pope’s call to all of Catholic Christendom to pray the Rosary.

 

[Coreopisis]

Hi Sarah
I used to work with people who for 19 years would continus to relate in nonchristian ways and each day they jput me down and each day I prayed for them. In fact I prayed a 365 day novena took 4 houres and through this they still put me down little did it matter. I have God with me I had a strong relationship with St Therese (little flower) to help me.

I belonged to the charismatic renewal and our cultural prayer group so this all helped me.
The spiritual prayer group (charismatic) and others all put together could not be crushed. At least 7 of them called me over to a prayer group and they were all there. 2 Years latter they died of canser but they told me “don’t worry olli we know where we are going”.
My strength came from the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
Godbless.

Godlovestrength,

It sounds to me like you are doing the best that is possible. There is really no other Christian way to handle this.

It’s purely hypocritical that anyone would bash the renewal for being unCatholic when they are behaving this way. I’ve noticed that the main stance these people take is that there is a particular aspect of it they dissaggree with or that there are certain people who aren’t doing it right. When last I checked there are problems with the traditional chruch as well that can be placed into these categories. For instance we don’t bash the entire church because there are a few bad Priests who sexually abused people. We don’t bash the entire church because there are people lay and religious who are teaching things that we know aren’t exactly right. In any movement and in any organization there will be rogues. There is no way around it. I am not saying that these people are inherently bad at all and I don’t think they realize how really kind of twisted this kind of talk is. We really need to pray for them and for the movement to be good.

Perhaps, when you hear someone bashing, you could sincerely smile (not sarcastically) and say “We should love and pray for all of our brothers and sisters especially if we think they are being mislead, not judge them.”

I am sorry you lost your friends to cancer but you will see them again.

Love,
Sarah

 

[water]

This is not to bash the Charismatic movement, which is too young, I think, for its fruits to properly be judged. The Rosary, on the other hand, has been around for centuries, and has produced some extraordinary fruit among those who are devoted to it - St Dominic (who gave it the basic form we know today) and St Pio being probably the most obvious - not to mention the resounding victory of the Battle of Lepanto which was aided by the Pope’s call to all of Catholic Christendom to pray the Rosary.

I couldn’t believe the main guy who leads a Charismatic group at one parish told me that one can get bored quickly for praying the rosary and that he emphasized too much on praying in tongue. I didn’t say much about his comment, but in my mind I just think that if he truly knows the importance of the rosary prayer, he would have not said such comment.

Perhaps, when you hear someone bashing, you could sincerely smile (not sarcastically) and say “don’t you find it a little hypocritical that you are gossiping, bashing and judging a group of other Christians? When last I checked gossiping, bashing and judging were behaviors that were not considered Christian.”

Love,
Sarah

Sarah, I see this bashing problem on both sides where wrongly judging, too much zeal but lack of prudence is the biggest issue. I fortunately have a good group at my parish.

 

[Coreopisis]

I’d probably just point back to my first reply.

Personally, I enjoy the group at my parish but not 2 other groups at different parishes where lots of judgments and pride - this problem is due to the fact they are new and do not have a good spiritual direction or they do not believe they should listen to anybody besides “God tell me this, and that is all truth and I would not believe advices from people who don’t speak in tongue”. Those who try to give advice had been considered as against them.

One of the 2 groups finally learns that they need to listen to their own pastor and start to love to study bible with folks who don’t speak in tongue. The other group does not only like to join the Bible study group with others, they also consider the Bible group having something against them.

The problems mentioned above are only examples; there are more problems. This weakens the unity of the 2 parishes.

The group at my parish is awesome and I go there every Thursday.

The judgement and pride thing is really unfortunate. But pride affects us all and drives wedges between many people for different reasons.

There are people who will read what you stated and feel validated in their own ideas of why the renewal is a bad idea…I would offer that this judgement is pride also and ask them to really pray and think about that judgement. We all need to be careful about judgement.

 

[water]

There are people who will read what you stated and feel validated in their own ideas of why the renewal is a bad idea…I would offer that this judgement is pride also and ask them to really pray and think about that judgement. We all need to be careful about judgement.

The judgment and pride are just part of the problem. The lack of understanding of the teaching of the Church is another.

I was thinking about that there might be others who use what I said as an excuse but it is their problem to use this to bash the renewal. However, the truth whether it is bad or good needs to be mentioned sometimes. And this discussion is to bring the good, the bad, the ugly out for the purpose of understanding.

If one does not see the wrong doings of his own, he can’t go forward.

If one has the desire to build, he can build good things upon the negatives as well. If those who bash about the movement, they would not care much about the good the movement has done so far.