Is This an outrage or what?

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i just became aware of this recently while trying to find information about another question that i had.

follow this link and read: the-tidings.com/2004/0910/liturgy.htm

please post your reaction. is it just me or did mahoney equate himself to the Congregation for the Discipline of the Sacraments and turn his nose up at the Vatican? in my opinion, he has excommunicated himself. we all need to be aware of this (tell everyone!) and we need to keep an eye on this. this sort of thing is an early step in dividing the universal Church.

btw, i live in l.a. and abuses, serious and otherwise, are the norm. i don’t want to call the guy a liar, but his statements are in conflict with the truth.

for further information on Redemptionis Sacramentum #106, follow this link: usccb.org/liturgy/q&a/chalice.shtml
it is interesting to note that not only does using pitchers during consecration increase the chance that the Blood of Christ will later be spilled, but it is also less likely that someone will adequately purify the vessel. to fully clean the sides, a lot of water must be used, and is less likely to be consumed. though diluted, it is more likely that the Precious Blood will be poured down the sacrarium. while we may trust that this sort of thing wouldn’t happen, i think it is more common than we realize.

this may be old news, but i’m really upset by this, and thought others should know.

thanks,

john
 
He seems to say that he will move heaven and earth to change the Liturgy in Los Angeles.
 
He seems to say that he will move heaven and earth to change the Liturgy in Los Angeles.
 
As a deacon, according to the GIRM, if the Eucharist is to be received in two species, we are to divide the wine into the chalices prior to consecration. This will prevent any Precious Blood from being spilled in the transferring, and all blood can be consumed adequately after Communion is distributed. It is done this way in the diocese of Chicago, although you will find liturgical abuse at parishes who have not fully adopted all the rubrics that are recommended. Let’s hope someone reminds the diocese of Cardinal Mahoney as well. Pray, Pray and Pray some more!
 
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stbruno:
Pray, Pray and Pray some more!
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Not enough for Mahoney. An exorcism on the other hand…
 
Thankfully he won’t be around forever. God has a way of cleaning house. The Church has withstood far worse than him. Just stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught…
 
I almost enjoyed reading the cardinal’s document (in a sort of perverse way): it was a fantastic example of modern waffle-speak, which is designed to dress up very simple ideas so that that they won’t be recognised. What His Eminence is saying is: “Rome tells us we’ve got to stop doing something we like doing: Rome can take a running jump. I’m boss here.” He takes 1068 words and an awful lot of fluff to say it, of course.

The bit I like is where he announces that he is “developing a process and a Liturgy Evaluation Form which will allow priests, deacons, religious, parish liturgists and others in liturgical leadership to assess all aspects of liturgical preparation and celebration”. This, I predict, will prove beyond doubt that the clergy and ‘others in liturgical leadership’ are really happy with the way things are going. (Those who aren’t, or who express any doubts about the vitality of liturgy in Los Angeles, will not be quoted in the final report.) I also predict that both the questionnaire and the final report will be produced on full-colour, glossy, beautifully-designed pages, with multiple copies printed, the whole thing costing the diocese several million dollars.

How do I know? Well, our diocese is in the middle of just such an exercise - not on liturgy, but on gifts, charisms, relationships, blah, blah, and how our bishop can help us all develop them. Sounds good? Everyone knows that it’s the lead-up to closing about 20% of parishes, because we haven’t had any new priests for years (well, one three years ago, I think). Only it’s all cost the diocese huge amounts of money, glossy documents full of fluffguff, and is totally pointless, since the bishop (who has presided over the decline of the diocese for the last twenty or so years) has almost certainly already decided what he’s going to do.

It’s the changeover of the Catholic Church, or large parts of it, to the managerial model, and it’s disastrous.

Sue.

Some
 
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KennySe:
I did a little digging on this board, and found a thread which was begun on September 13,2004, on this same subject.
forum.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=14792

I particularly enjoyed Post #47 by it’sjustdave1988.
Two thumbs up for Dave! 👍 👍
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Thanks for digging that out - it was very informative.

My understanding is the Cardinal is 6 long years away from retirement. Let’s all pray for him…and pray that he doesn’t influence any other bishops in the meantime 🙂
 
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tpmjr42:
Thanks for digging that out - it was very informative.

My understanding is the Cardinal is 6 long years away from retirement. Let’s all pray for him…and pray that he doesn’t influence any other bishops in the meantime 🙂
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Now, you never know when he’ll get smashed and run over someone. It’s happened before. It’s never too late to start campaigning for an orthodox replacement.
 
well, i am glad that this has been posted before. we need to keep renewing our awareness though. some of the info in the previous is not helpful, however. indults and dispensations are not the issue. sedition is.

to teresita et al.: for a preview of such reports follow this link: cardinal.la-archdiocese.org/pdf/2004/CARAReport.pdf
note that the negative opinion is never presented except by subtracting the good from 100% (but the negative is there.) one-third of his priests are not on his side. that’s a lot. the questions are framed by the so-called “cardinal” (oops, i didn’t mean that.) the real questions are not published on the net. besides these people were never presented with the question, “how would you rate my fidelity to Jesus, considering how little fidelity i have toward rome?”

besides my prayers, you all have helped me today. at least the sense that i am at mass alone is lessened. please remember that the only way that the laity will keep watch, is if we keep the difficulties fresh and remind each other. we discuss petty issues in these forums. this man has six bishops under his control and only needs three of them to pass on succession. i don’t know the literal rite of ordination, but in the rite we use in l.a. he says “obedient to me”. all the truly worthy bishops and JPII are depending on us. (btw, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit too.)

things are bad here. it is hard to see the light. especially since we will soon face the election of a new pope. it would be nice to have the trust that nothing bad or difficult will happen, but i only have the trust that Christ Jesus will prevail. that is a lot different than the rest of us enduring the tribulation of an errant cardinal and priests loyal to him. this sunday, if i want to remain a lector, i must participate in an alteration of the lectionary, which causes me to participate in the proclaimation of the Gospel reading. if we all just quit because of liturgical ***, there will only be the lemmings left. this sucks. but God is Good. (oops, these are identifying remarks, so &!##@! to all would use them against me.)

along with praying, keep this on top of the forum. our Father does extraordinary things, but he leaves a lot for us to accomplish. let’s not let him down.

(btw, in my frustration, i have read interesting things about mahoney (and i use the “e” because then i rhymes with ma phoney) in connection to the sex scandal. update yourself, if you are willing, about his (supposed and i think probable) connection with all the disgraced people in california. google search “mahoney sex scandel” and if you spell everything right you’ll get more than i did.)

if Mary had left the Christ Child unprotected, would you leave Him to fend for himself? She has gone to heaven now, and we have Him in our midst. hence, “the good fight.”

john

p.s. the machine censoring above omitted the word “cr**” sorry.
 
I don’t question that Rome needs to set liturgical standardsm but I have often wondered what Jesus Himself would have to say. In His passion and death all that blood didn’t end up in any chalice, cup, pitcher, or whatever. It ended up be spattered far and wide on the pavingm on the ground, on the Roman soldiers who manhandled Him. So we get bent out of shape lest a single drop should fall and be lost. I would guess that the cup from the Last Supper wasn’t rinsed and scrubbed, etc. Just doesn’t seem to fit the attitudes of Jesus as they are reflected in the Scriptures.
 
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