Is this canonically wrong?

[Mickey]

I understand. I would also be horrified. But that was my point…in a sense. The Altar is a sacred place. This is where the Body and Blood of Christ resides in the Tabernacle at every Liturgy. It is a place of great reverence. I do not see any exceptions…and that is why I was wondering if there was something I was missing…canonically.

 

[bcuster]

Nope.

 

[Wildkit]

I understand. I would also be horrified. But that was my point…in a sense. The Altar is a sacred place. This is where the Body and Blood of Christ resides in the Tabernacle at every Liturgy. It is a place of great reverence. I do not see any exceptions…and that is why I was wondering if there was something I was missing…canonically.

So if you were Catholic, what would you do?

 

[JReducation]

We have to be very careful here. There is a tendency in this thread to play canon lawyer, a tendency that is bordering on putting the one person that cannot be on trial on trial.

Canon Law is important, because it helps in the governance of the Church. But Canon Law, if you read it very carefully, is not about faith. It’s purpose is to protect the faith, not to dictate faith.

Many people are so focused on the law that they are missing the meat of the matter.

A child goes on a trip for a week. He comes home and the first thing he does, before he goes to his room is run to his mother to hug her and greet her. “Mommy, I’m home!”

The next thing he does is to show her what treasures he picked up on his trip. Then he says, “Here Mommy, this is for you. I brought this home, just for you.”

That’s what’s happening here. Where in the law does it say that Christ is offended by such a display of childlike love for his Blessed Mother?

 

[Oneofthewomen]

Br. Jay!!

What an awesome analogy!!!

 

[Mickey]

So if you were Catholic, what would you do?

Not much…except continue praying.

 

[Mickey]

Canon Law is important, because it helps in the governance of the Church. But Canon Law, if you read it very carefully, is not about faith. It’s purpose is to protect the faith, not to dictate faith.

Yeah…but apparently there is nothing in canon law about what happened.

 

[JReducation]

Yeah…but apparently there is nothing in canon law about what happened.

You are correct, because nothing contrary to the faith happened.

The other function of Canon Law is to ensure that rights and duties are safeguarded.

Again, no one’s rights were violated and there are no duties involved here.

The whole issue about how the altar is to be used has been addressed very well by Fr. Vincent. The law is not as rigid as people are interpreting it. Law will never punish faith.

The Holy Father’s action is an act of profound faith and love for Our Lady. The law cannot dictate against that. There would be no such law in the books, because it’s unnecessary.

The pope creates canon law according to need. There is no need here.

We have to focus not on “what happened”, because nothing happened. We have to focus on the Holy Father’s deep love for the Mother of God, because such love is exemplary.

I’m thinking of a child who brings home a drawing from school and gives it to his mother. In this mind, it’s a Rembrandt or a Picasso. When you and I look at it, we have no idea what it is. But in Mom’s eyes, it is the heart of her child. And so she puts it on display on the fridge for the world to see.

If we keep looking for a law, we’re going to miss a great lesson in love.

We have to ask ourselves, “How dare we not pay attention to love?”

 

[RoseMary131]

My opinion is that the actions of the Holy Father were beautiful.

He took a T-shirt he was given and placed it on the altar. But the T-shirt most likely was not placed on the altar as “a T-shirt”. The shirt was most likely to represent all of the people who were part of WYD… each individual person… the lady who donated $1 to her parish youth group, those who watched by media, and especially those Youth who were able to attend. This was not a souvenir - but a representation of each person and the event WYD.

The same with the beach ball. It most likely was not placed on the altar by the Pope as a toy or souvenir - but to represent the place of WYD - a beach in Brazil. A symbol of the whole event - people and place and worship of God.

The pope even adjusted the beach ball so the emblem of WYD on the ball is facing forward and upright.

How can it be wrong for the pope to place special items on the altar while he prayers for the intentions that the items represent? I can’t imagine God would say, “Holy Father, I do not want cotton and plastic items that represent My people placed on My altar during your prayer time.”

My opinions are not based on anything that I can quote from a paragraph of a Church document. They are simply my opinion that the Holy Father’s actions were beautiful.

If it caused some to feel uneasy… maybe they can pray to be at peace. What brings about the uneasy feeling? Why be uneasy with the prayerful actions of our Holy Father?

 

[Mickey]

The pope creates canon law according to need.

Really? Is that how it works in the RCC?

If we keep looking for a law, we’re going to miss a great lesson in love.

The law is also a part of the faith. Without the law there will be chaos.

I think reverence should be shown to the Altar without beach balls and tee shirts being placed next to the Tabernacle. There are many other ways to show love for the youth at Rio.

 

[JustaServant]

What a non-issue.

 

[JReducation]

Really? Is that how it works in the RCC?

That’s how law works. One does not create laws out of love of law, but in response to a need.

The law is also a part of the faith. Without the law there will be chaos.

The law is NOT PART OF THE FAITH. It has never been part of the faith. The faith is unchangeable. It is absolute. Law is not absolute. Law is created by the Church to protect rights and to enforce duties.

I think reverence should be shown to the Altar without beach balls and tee shirts being placed next to the Tabernacle. There are many other ways to show love for the youth at Rio.

The key phrase in your sentence is “I think”.

If the popes were to allow themselves to be guided by what everyone thinks, then we would truly have chaos.

But the pope is guided by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit inspired him to venerate the Mother of God with childlike love and tenderness. Nothing that the Son would hold against any of us.

Maybe, if you focused more on his love and less on the law, you’d be a more pleasant participant in this discussion.

 

[Mickey]

That’s how law works.

But does not a synod establish canon law?

The law is NOT PART OF THE FAITH.

Of course it is. For example, One part of canon law says: The sacraments of the New Testament were instituted by Christ the Lord and entrusted to the Church.

That is most certainly a part of our faith. Canon Law is Tradition…and Tradition is part of the faith.

It has never been part of the faith.

It has always been. But I’m not here to argue about canon law with you.

Law is not absolute.

Canon law was established by the Church. It is a guide for the faith…and a part of the holy faith.

Christ is the Head of the Church. The Church establishes canon law. It is part of the Sacred Tradition.

The key phrase in your sentence is “I think”.

You have your opinions I have mine.

Maybe, if you focused more on his love and less on the law, you’d be a more pleasant participant in this discussion.

You are very quick to judge that I have no love. Perhaps you could take the beam out of your eye?

 

[Mickey]

The law is NOT PART OF THE FAITH.

PS…Canon Law is often referred to as "tradition of the holy canons." It is most definitely a part of the holy faith. I’m not sure where you get your teaching, but it seems to be a bit skewed.

 

[Mickey]

But the pope is guided by the Holy Spirit.

I think that the Catholic Church teaches that the Pope “is preserved from the possibility of error when, in the exercise of his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians, in virtue of his supreme apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole Church.”

That does not mean that he cannot err in anything that he does. Heck, there was even a Pope (Honorius) who was declared to be a heretic.

 

[agnes_therese]

What a non-issue.

Truly. But there will always be those who are so convinced they know “better,” even than a Pope, that they can’t even entertain the idea that the Holy Spirit might be trying to tell them something.

More and more, Pope Francis reminds me of that quote about “comfort the afflicted, and afflict the comfortable.” God bless him and keep him.

 

[Mickey]

But there will always be those who are so convinced they know “better,” even than a Pope

Well…I don’t know about that. Perhaps there are some who think they know better than a Pope. Personally, I know less than most people…and I am a wretched sinner.

But I do believe that the sanctity of the Altar should be preserved.

 

[JReducation]

You’re arguing something that is not under discussion.

PS…Canon Law is often referred to as "tradition of the holy canons." It is most definitely a part of the holy faith. I’m not sure where you get your teaching, but it seems to be a bit skewed.

The use of the term in this context does not mean that Canon Law is dogma. It is a part of our faith in that it protects our rights and duties regarding the faith. It does not teach faith. However, it is based on faith.

I think that the Catholic Church teaches that the Pope “is preserved from the possibility of error when, in the exercise of his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians, in virtue of his supreme apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole Church.”

That does not mean that he cannot err in anything that he does. Heck, there was even a Pope (Honorius) who was declared to be a heretic.

Again, you’re giving this another spin. The complete idea here is that the Holy Spirit guided the pope to venerate the Mother of God.

 

[Mickey]

It is a part of our faith in that it protects our rights and duties regarding the faith.

Yes. It is a part of the holy faith.

And at this point, I will apologize to you for anything that I have said that has offended you. I truly mean no harm. My question has been answered. I will leave this thread.

Peace and prayers

 

[Thomas_Casey]

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