I know the above sounds too much like the doctrine of Once-Saved-Always-Saved. But how much of it can be considered congruous with Catholic teachings? And how much not?Real Christian freedom is more than just freedom from laws. It is freedom to choose life; freedom from fear, guilt, and condemnation when we make a wrong choice; freedom to choose love instead of avoiding guilt… The person who trusts Christ as Savior is out from under the law of condemnation. She is “in Christ”. This means that when God looks at her, he sees the righteousness of Jesus. Legally, she is not guilty (2 Cor. 5:21). [BIBLEDRB]2 Cor. 5:21[/BIBLEDRB]
No matter what she may be doing, she does not bear the legal guilt of condemnation, because Christ bore the guilt once and for all. The consequence of sin for the Christian is never condemnation or punishment from God. The Christian is perfect in God’s eyes because He is looking through the lens of Christ.
No, it isn’t Catholic. It is the Protestant idea that Christ’s righteousness is merely legally imputed to the sinner. And since God sees nothing but Christ’s righteousness, no matter what we do, we’re saved. It’s court room salvation.I recently read this in a Christian-authored book:
I know the above sounds too much like the doctrine of Once-Saved-Always-Saved. But how much of it can be considered congruous with Catholic teachings? And how much not?
Nah, I don’t think any of it is Catholic. It implies that there is no sin and that there is no need for the examining of conscience and the confessing of sins. Catholicism includes examination of one’s own conscience (not the neighbors’ or even fellow parishioners’) and going to confession and receiving absolution from the priest. Then God would forgive the sinner and the guilt would be gone from the soul (but not necessarily from the mind). Then God would not ‘see’ the stain of sin on the soul.I recently read this in a Christian-authored book:
“The person who trusts Christ as Savior is out from under the law of condemnation. She is “in Christ”. This means that when God looks at her, he sees the righteousness of Jesus. Legally, she is not guilty.”
“No matter what she may be doing, she does not bear the legal guilt of condemnation, because Christ bore the guilt once and for all. The consequence of sin for the Christian is never condemnation or punishment from God. The Christian is perfect in God’s eyes because He is looking through the lens of Christ.”
I know the above sounds too much like the doctrine of Once-Saved-Always-Saved. But how much of it can be considered congruous with Catholic teachings? And how much not?
Yes the idea of purgatory is very merciful. I’ve been discussing it with a protestant friend who believes in “once saved always saved”, “dung covered snow pile”. The weird thing is, she believes that she will never be perfect until she is glorified in heaven, which in a sense is similar to the idea of purgatory, that we won’t be perfect until we are purified in purgatory and then we can go on to heaven. But she adamantly rejects purgatory. So she somehow anticipates a type of glorification after death which will render her perfect and pure, but she simply cannot accept this glorification will be anything like a purgatory. Perhaps 'glorification" just sounds much better than “purgatory”.No, it is not Christian belief that was ever in history universally taught and therefor not apostolic Catholic. It is a form of Phariseeism where by forensic judicial legal declaration a pile of dung is covered over with white snow and declared to be clean and wholesome in God’s sight; the proverbial “dung covered snow pile” taught by Luther. The problem is it does not pass the sniff test in heaven where not the slightest hint of corruption no matter how thick the veneer of an outward appearances of cleanliness is. See the Pharisee image here of “outwardly clean but inwardly vile”? Not a hint of corruption or desire for sin can exist in heaven and any must flee in shame and disgrace before God’s consuming Holiness. In an ironic sence Hell is a Mercy in that it gives a place for such souls to flee to and cover over their shame and spiritual agony with the fires of Justice to save them an eternity before God to suffer the full envy for what they lost.
None of us could bear to stand in heaven for an instant with even the trace of an appetite to sin and this is why most of us must go to purgatory to be fully purged of the residual trace desire for even our old forgiven sins that one has not given adequate penance for.
James
That’s amazing actually that she has the insight and the intellectual wherewithal to derive that necessity for a final “polishing act” of sanctification. Catholics also believe that we are not completed in our sanctification until we are crowed in glory in heaven. It’s just the final step in recognizing one’s theosis and total transformation in Christ.Yes the idea of purgatory is very merciful. I’ve been discussing it with a protestant friend who believes in “once saved always saved”, “dung covered snow pile”. The weird thing is, she believes that she will never be perfect until she is glorified in heaven, which in a sense is similar to the idea of purgatory, that we won’t be perfect until we are purified in purgatory and then we can go on to heaven. But she adamantly rejects purgatory. So she somehow anticipates a type of glorification after death which will render her perfect and pure, but she simply cannot accept this glorification will be anything like a purgatory. Perhaps 'glorification" just sounds much better than “purgatory”.
It seems such a contradiction to me. On the one hand she cannot stand that we insist all be pure before entering heaven; on the other hand she cannot stand the idea that God purifies us in purgatory. She anticipates that she will be pure and blameless somehow through Christ, but it just cannot be the catholic way.
Yes Captain,the Reformers saw justification as a mere legal act by which God declares the sinner to be meriting heaven even though he remains infact unjust and sinful.No, it isn’t Catholic. It is the Protestant idea that Christ’s righteousness is merely legally imputed to the sinner. And since God sees nothing but Christ’s righteousness, no matter what we do, we’re saved. It’s court room salvation.
Here are some articles to get you started on what Catholics believe about salvation:
catholic.com/library/salvation.asp
Thank you James for the references for purgatory. We’ll see what happens.That’s amazing actually that she has the insight and the intellectual wherewithal to derive that necessity for a final “polishing act” of sanctification. Catholics also believe that we are not completed in our sanctification until we are crowed in glory in heaven. It’s just the final step in recognizing one’s theosis and total transformation in Christ.
She is very close to Catholic understanding here. What she does not see are the scriptural verses that make it clear that it is a seperate state that occurs before one enters heaven. Have her read the parts of scripture that speak of Jesus DESCENDING to the realm of the dead (those in jail) to teach. She might say this is hell but that does not make any sense since why would Jesus teach those in hell since there is no hope for redemption in hell.
Have her look at all these scripture references for purgatory:
scripturecatholic.com/purgatory.html
James