Is this church really Catholic?

[brikar]

I’m on vacation and decided to see if I could find a Latin mass to attend. I came across this church website which claims to be in communion with Rome. I can’t believe that this statement would be on the website of a Catholic Church. netministries.org/churches.aspx/?ch=ch24175&frame=N
Look at their statement of purpose. I’m going to look else where. Is this Catholic?

 

[jmcrae]

I’m on vacation and decided to see if I could find a Latin mass to attend. I came across this church website which claims to be in communion with Rome. I can’t believe that this statement would be on the website of a Catholic Church. netministries.org/churches.aspx/?ch=ch24175&frame=N
Look at their statement of purpose. I’m going to look else where. Is this Catholic?

I agree with you that they do not appear to be in full communion with Rome at the present time. You should definitely look elsewhere.

 

[brikar]

Thanks, I was shocked. Then I thought, “no way.”

 

[BusterMartin]

Yeah, I’d try elsewhere. Check out masstimes.org or perhaps contact the local diocese of where you are vacationing. At least by doing those things you’ll likely get a Church truly in Communion with Rome.

 

[KenChute]

Looks fine with me, different strokes for different folks. Tremendous diversify within RC churches when you go to different cities, cultures, poverty , affluent and so forth.

 

[willofgods]

The local diocese doesn’t seem to have them listed as a parish.
This part of the parish of Saint Rita’s statement makes me think they do not answer to the bishop of the diocese (or any other for that matter…):

What is important to remember is that, “going out and setting up a church” is not the normal Catholic thing to do. But these are not normal times. In normal times, we would have bishops and priests who hold the true Faith; reverent Traditional Sacraments, and blind obedience would be at least a safe option for those without the education or intellect to know the “whys and wherefores” of the Faith. Abnormal times require abnormal means.

If you’re still in that area, here are some options from the diocese for Latin, among other languages (Latin is about halfway down the page). I’m not sure where exactly you are so it might not be plausible but I enjoy going to Ordinary Form Masses in other languages too.

 

[lutherlic]

The Archdiocese of Santa Fe website has an interesting list of churches and their status. The link is here.

This one appears to be on the “not in union with Rome” list (and little prospect thereof considering the other headings). It was previously known as the Old Roman Catholic Church of America according to their website.

Red flag this one.

 

[commenter]

I would disagree with the Archdiocesan website. First, many of the groups the website labels as “chuches” would be considered as “ecclesial communities” in terms of Vatican II. Only the Churches in union with Rome, the Eastern Orthodox, and perhaps a few others would be “churches” according to Vatican II. But second, some of the “churches” they seem to label as coming closer to unity with Rome are pro-abortion!
It doesn’t matter if the Evangelical Lutherans, United Methodists, United Church of Christ use candles like we do, they are totally beyond Christianity on this, and many theological issues. They should be in the same grouping as Mormons, for instance. Our relationship with them is not ecumenism, as with the Orthodox, but evangelism. I know there are good Christians in there, but we can encourage them to join some other church.

 

[Lisa44]

I’m on vacation and decided to see if I could find a Latin mass to attend. I came across this church website which claims to be in communion with Rome. I can’t believe that this statement would be on the website of a Catholic Church. netministries.org/churches.aspx/?ch=ch24175&frame=N
Look at their statement of purpose. I’m going to look else where. Is this Catholic?

I would go to that church. It is safer to be in a church that teaches about sins and hell, then to be in a church that baptizes you in a state of mortal sin and doesn’t tell you you are in a state of mortal sin (that was what happened to me).

It was only when I found a “traditional” Priest that he told me I was in mortal sin and I was able to get out of mortal sin.

If it was me, I would rather my Priest was too far to the “safe” side, then hanging way out there flapping in the breeze saying “no issues no problems…lalalala, can we have some guitar music now please…”

And trust me, if you are living in certain parts of the U.S. you know what I’m talking about.

And its true that most of the abuses going on in Masses today are not authorized by Vatican II.

 

[ahs]

I read through the entire thing, adn 99% of it is solidly Catholic. They reject any notion that they are SSPX or any other group, they acknowledge the Pope, hold fast to the Mass, maintain respect for the Eucharist and the Altar, etc…nothing at all there that would make me think they are not in line with Rome. They are just very traditional and vocal about it. I would LOVE to go to such a Mass.

There was 1 thing that gave me pause, but I don’t know enough to know if this is a concern or not:
“We accept any and all “independent chapels” created under the aforementioned conditions, and for practical purposes we make no distinctions between SSPX, SSPV, CMRI, or chapels served by independent priests (retired, vagus, et cetera). What is important to remember is that, “going out and setting up a church” is not the normal Catholic thing to do. But these are not normal times.”

 

[Holly3278]

I would go to that church. It is safer to be in a church that teaches about sins and hell, then to be in a church that baptizes you in a state of mortal sin and doesn’t tell you you are in a state of mortal sin (that was what happened to me).

It was only when I found a “traditional” Priest that he told me I was in mortal sin and I was able to get out of mortal sin.

If it was me, I would rather my Priest was too far to the “safe” side, then hanging way out there flapping in the breeze saying “no issues no problems…lalalala, can we have some guitar music now please…”

And trust me, if you are living in certain parts of the U.S. you know what I’m talking about.

And its true that most of the abuses going on in Masses today are not authorized by Vatican II.

You do realize that if you are in a state of mortal sin and you get baptized you are no longer in a state of mortal sin right? Baptism washes away all sins.

 

[Bob_Aliano]

I use parishesonline.com/scripts/default.asp#Diocese.

 

[Lisa44]

You do realize that if you are in a state of mortal sin and you get baptized you are no longer in a state of mortal sin right? Baptism washes away all sins.

sigh. Do you know what living in a state of mortal sin means???

 

[ahs]

sigh. Do you know what living in a state of mortal sin means???

What she’s saying is that, if you received Baptism as an adult/teen/whatever ALL your sins were forgiven at that instant. Mortal sins as well as venial sins…Baptism washed it all away. You only need to confess sins committed after your Baptism.

 

[lizaanne]

sigh. Do you know what living in a state of mortal sin means???

Do you know what baptism DOES?

WE ALL have sin on our soul prior to baptism, and we cannot receive the sacrament of confession prior to baptism, because we have not yet been brought into full communion with the Church. Once you are baptized, your sins are washed away. Now, you can and will certainly sin after baptism (none of us are perfect), but there is no such thing as NOT being baptized while in a state of sin, because we all have sin stained souls prior to baptism. Even infants.

As for the “church” in the OP - stay away, they are not recognized by Rome. You are right to look elsewhere.

~Liza

 

[inkaneer]

The local diocese doesn’t seem to have them listed as a parish.
This part of the parish of Saint Rita’s statement makes me think they do not answer to the bishop of the diocese (or any other for that matter…):
If you’re still in that area, here are some options from the diocese for Latin, among other languages (Latin is about halfway down the page). I’m not sure where exactly you are so it might not be plausible but I enjoy going to Ordinary Form Masses in other languages too.

In reading the above I am reminded of what Ignatius of Antioch wrote over 1900 years ago:

“Let no one do anything of concern to the Church without the bishop. Let that be considered a valid Eucharist which is celebrated by the bishop or by one whom he ordains *. Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church” (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 110]).

This church is not with the bishop of that diocese. They can make all the accusations they will but until they are associated with the bishop of that diocese they are not Catholic. Avoid them like the plague.*

 

[willofgods]

1. 
   *]I would go to that church.
   *]It is safer to be in a church that teaches about sins and hell, then to be in a church that baptizes you in a state of mortal sin and doesn’t tell you you are in a state of mortal sin (that was what happened to me.
   *]It was only when I found a “traditional” Priest that he told me I was in mortal sin and I was able to get out of mortal sin…]

1. 1. 
      *]If the Bishop of that diocese wouldn’t go, I would not.
      
      *]Baptism wipes away all sins, though to receive Baptism without the intention of no longer committing those sins…I’m not sure if that invalidated the sacrament? (this would be material for another thread)…
      
      I’m sorry your parish at that time wasn’t more concerned with keeping you off the way of sin. I know for a sin to be mortal you need “knowledge of the sinful character of the act”. Does that mean you have to know it is mortal? Or if you thought it was venial and did it anyway, is it still mortal? (Also material for its own thread)
      
      *]I’m glad you found a priest that helped you on your path to Christian Perfection; however, the “priests” at the church in question do not seem to answer to any higher authority (they claim they are obedient to the Pope, but I assume they do not obey their Bishop, so it’s kind of disingenuous…basically unless Benedict XVI writes them personally to obey their Bishop or shut down, they won’t. Even if he did, I might assume that they would disregard him as wrong on this occasion.)
      This would mean that even if they were validly ordained, they could not validly perform sacramental duties, including Confession, Eucharistic celebration!

 

[nickybr38]

Do you know what baptism DOES?

WE ALL have sin on our soul prior to baptism, and we cannot receive the sacrament of confession prior to baptism, because we have not yet been brought into full communion with the Church. Once you are baptized, your sins are washed away. Now, you can and will certainly sin after baptism (none of us are perfect), but there is no such thing as NOT being baptized while in a state of sin, because we all have sin stained souls prior to baptism. Even infants.

As for the “church” in the OP - stay away, they are not recognized by Rome. You are right to look elsewhere.

~Liza

I would also add that if the poster in question did not KNOW she was in a state of mortal sin then she couldn’t have been in a state of mortal sin since mortal sin requires full knowledge.

To the OP: I would find another Church.

 

[Lisa44]

I would also add that if the poster in question did not KNOW she was in a state of mortal sin then she couldn’t have been in a state of mortal sin since mortal sin requires full knowledge.

To the OP: I would find another Church.

BINGO! You win the prize.

Everyone else here made assumptions and then went off of their assumptions.

For all the Catholics here:
This is what being baptized in a state of mortal sin means: It means that you were baptized while you were living in a state of mortal sin such that as soon as you were baptized you went back to a state of mortal sin.

Can anyone here guess what that state of mortal sin might be??

It is true what the last poster said, that if I didn’t know I was in mortal sin, it was not a mortal sin. However, that doesn’t change the fact that I was shocked to find out I was living in mortal sin, and as soon as I found out I had to seek a remedy.

The original church that baptized me could have let me know I was living in a state of mortal sin.

 

[aluminumthuribl]

I would go to that church. It is safer to be in a church that teaches about sins and hell, then to be in a church that baptizes you in a state of mortal sin and doesn’t tell you you are in a state of mortal sin (that was what happened to me).

It was only when I found a “traditional” Priest that he told me I was in mortal sin and I was able to get out of mortal sin.

If it was me, I would rather my Priest was too far to the “safe” side, then hanging way out there flapping in the breeze saying “no issues no problems…lalalala, can we have some guitar music now please…”

And trust me, if you are living in certain parts of the U.S. you know what I’m talking about.

And its true that most of the abuses going on in Masses today are not authorized by Vatican II.

Lisa, I think we need to be careful lest we think we can be “more Catholic than the Pope”. If the church is indeed schismatic and not in union with the Holy Father it matters not how “traditional” their message may appear to be. Remember, “et non mirum ipse enim Satanas transfigurat se in angelum lucis” (2 Corinthians 11:13-14: For such false apostles are deceitful workmen, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no wonder: for Satan himself transformeth himself into an angel of light.")

In the words of Ambrose of Milan (paraphrased) : “Where the Church is, there is Peter.” If the faith community claims to be soooooo “traditional” that they have broken with the See of Peter then they in fact have deceived themselves and have lost that tradition for which they long so heartily for. Knowingly attending illicit sacraments in these chapels not in union with Rome, and not being in danger of death may constitute mortal sin??? I don’t know? Maybe, that’s a question that someone else on the thread would be able to answer. It seems to be very disobedient…

My advice would be to echo the majority on this thread and say KEEP LOOKING! Stay with Peter! Stay with the Pope, and you won’t go wrong!