Is this imperfect contrition?

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IF the Church is right and the things I did in the past are going to send me to hell, then I’m sorry because I don’t want to go to hell.

If the Church is wrong about those things sending me to hell (even if those things were wrong) then I’m not really sorry because they were fun and I had a great time doing them.

I also have purpose of amendment (although some of those sins, like pre-marital sex, can’t be repeated anyway now that I’m married).

Is that enough contrition for absolution or not?

Please no discussion about how the church cannot be wrong.
 
That’s even more confusing. “sorrow for sin”? What the heck is that? “detestation”? All of those are emotions that cannot be forced.

It doesn’t answer the question.

Like I said, if I really am going to go to hell, then of course I’m sorry-who wouldn’t regret something that caused them to be burning alive for eternity? But if not, I had some fun experiences in my past and I didn’t hurt anybody so I am glad to have had those experiences. All the prayer in the world isn’t getting me any closer to being any sorrier than that, although if I actually hurt God by doing those things then yes, I guess I am sorry because I would not want to hurt God. Anyway, my first post pretty much sums it up.
 
Yes, LS, it is enough contrition for absolution. 😉

As I said in a much earlier thread (similar to this), sorrow for one’s sins sometimes develops later – for particular sins as well as for a level of sorrow for all sin. It often takes some distance from those sins to have perspective on the decision-making process one used. That perspective is not an intellectual one but a spiritual one, developed in prayer and over time.
 
That’s even more confusing. “sorrow for sin”? What the heck is that? “detestation”? All of those are emotions that cannot be forced.
No they do not mean that one has to have some particular “feeling”. Contrition involves more the will. Though “feelings” certainly are good to have. But they do not always come at will. Such is their nature. One can often not will feelings…though often they will come via the consideration of the love of God…of what sin is before God…the sufferings Jesus went through out of love for us… Etc.

But again the words used there do not mean per se a particular feeling is required.
 
Yes, LS, it is enough contrition for absolution. 😉

As I said in a much earlier thread (similar to this), sorrow for one’s sins sometimes develops later – for particular sins as well as for a level of sorrow for all sin. It often takes some distance from those sins to have perspective on the decision-making process one used. That perspective is not an intellectual one but a spiritual one, developed in prayer and over time.
Thank you!!! 🙂
 
…I’m sorry because I don’t want to go to hell…I also have purpose of amendment
You have “imperfect contrition” (sorrow due to fear of Hell) which has stirred within you a firm purpose of amendment. The way I read 1452 and 1453 of the CCC is that this sufficient for forgiveness through Penance. Having been forgiven, you should gradually work toward having “perfect contrition” (being sorry for a sin because it offends God and you love God above all else) for current or future sins.

(Someone please correct me if I am missing something.)
 
I
If the Church is wrong about those things sending me to hell (even if those things were wrong) then I’m not really sorry because they were fun and I had a great time doing them.
.
Such would not be approach to take…
 
It is hardly an “approach” Bookcat. If I could have perfect contrition I would be psyched. It’s just an honest statement about the way things stand.
 
You have “imperfect contrition” (sorrow due to fear of Hell) which has stirred within you a firm purpose of amendment. The way I read 1452 and 1453 of the CCC is that this sufficient for forgiveness through Penance. Having been forgiven, you should gradually work toward having “perfect contrition” (being sorry for a sin because it offends God and you love God above all else) for current or future sins.

(Someone please correct me if I am missing something.)
Thanks! I hope this is the case :). I’m trying.
 
So at least a part of you WISHES you had better contrition.

In the long run, that’s all the opening the Holy Spirit needs. Confess away.
 
Thank you. I definitely wish I had better contrition!
Such would sound like an act of the will…so therefore it would seem that you are on the way even now to better contrition.

To want to have better contrition is to move towards better contrition.
 
Again for readers here is how the Church describes the acts of the penitent for confession:

Catechism:

VII. The Acts of the Penitent

1450 "Penance requires . . . the sinner to endure all things willingly, be contrite of heart, confess with the lips, and practice complete humility and fruitful satisfaction."49

Contrition

1451 Among the penitent’s acts contrition occupies first place. Contrition is "sorrow of the soul and detestation for the sin committed, together with the resolution not to sin again."50

1452 When it arises from a love by which God is loved above all else, contrition is called “perfect” (contrition of charity). Such contrition remits venial sins; it also obtains forgiveness of mortal sins if it includes the firm resolution to have recourse to sacramental confession as soon as possible.51

1453 The contrition called “imperfect” (or “attrition”) is also a gift of God, a prompting of the Holy Spirit. It is born of the consideration of sin’s ugliness or the fear of eternal damnation and the other penalties threatening the sinner (contrition of fear). Such a stirring of conscience can initiate an interior process which, under the prompting of grace, will be brought to completion by sacramental absolution. By itself however, imperfect contrition cannot obtain the forgiveness of grave sins, but it disposes one to obtain forgiveness in the sacrament of Penance.52

1454 The reception of this sacrament ought to be prepared for by an examination of conscience made in the light of the Word of God. the passages best suited to this can be found in the moral catechesis of the Gospels and the apostolic Letters, such as the Sermon on the Mount and the apostolic teachings.53

The confession of sins

1455 The confession (or disclosure) of sins, even from a simply human point of view, frees us and facilitates our reconciliation with others. Through such an admission man looks squarely at the sins he is guilty of, takes responsibility for them, and thereby opens himself again to God and to the communion of the Church in order to make a new future possible.

1456 Confession to a priest is an essential part of the sacrament of Penance: "All mortal sins of which penitents after a diligent self-examination are conscious must be recounted by them in confession, even if they are most secret and have been committed against the last two precepts of the Decalogue; for these sins sometimes wound the soul more grievously and are more dangerous than those which are committed openly."54

When Christ’s faithful strive to confess all the sins that they can remember, they undoubtedly place all of them before the divine mercy for pardon. But those who fail to do so and knowingly withhold some, place nothing before the divine goodness for remission through the mediation of the priest, "for if the sick person is too ashamed to show his wound to the doctor, the medicine cannot heal what it does not know."55

1457 According to the Church’s command, "after having attained the age of discretion, each of the faithful is bound by an obligation faithfully to confess serious sins at least once a year."56 Anyone who is aware of having committed a mortal sin must not receive Holy Communion, even if he experiences deep contrition, without having first received sacramental absolution, unless he has a grave reason for receiving Communion and there is no possibility of going to confession.57 Children must go to the sacrament of Penance before receiving Holy Communion for the first time.58

…(more there but too long to post)

Satisfaction

1459 Many sins wrong our neighbor. One must do what is possible in order to repair the harm (e.g., return stolen goods, restore the reputation of someone slandered, pay compensation for injuries). Simple justice requires as much. But sin also injures and weakens the sinner himself, as well as his relationships with God and neighbor. Absolution takes away sin, but it does not remedy all the disorders sin has caused.62 Raised up from sin, the sinner must still recover his full spiritual health by doing something more to make amends for the sin: he must “make satisfaction for” or “expiate” his sins. This satisfaction is also called “penance.”

1460 The penance the confessor imposes must take into account the penitent’s personal situation and must seek his spiritual good. It must correspond as far as possible with the gravity and nature of the sins committed. It can consist of prayer, an offering, works of mercy, service of neighbor, voluntary self-denial, sacrifices, and above all the patient acceptance of the cross we must bear. Such penances help configure us to Christ, who alone expiated our sins once for all. They allow us to become co-heirs with the risen Christ, "provided we suffer with him."63

The satisfaction that we make for our sins, however, is not so much ours as though it were not done through Jesus Christ. We who can do nothing ourselves, as if just by ourselves, can do all things with the cooperation of “him who strengthens” us. Thus man has nothing of which to boast, but all our boasting is in Christ . . . in whom we make satisfaction by bringing forth “fruits that befit repentance.” These fruits have their efficacy from him, by him they are offered to the Father, and through him they are accepted by the Father.64

vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P4D.HTM
 
No they do not mean that one has to have some particular “feeling”. Contrition involves more the will. Though “feelings” certainly are good to have. But they do not always come at will. Such is their nature. One can often not will feelings…though often they will come via the consideration of the love of God…of what sin is before God…the sufferings Jesus went through out of love for us… Etc.

But again the words used there do not mean per se a particular feeling is required.
This is not to say one should not seek to have feelings of sorrow…feelings of detestation of the sin committed, emotionally moving firm purpose of amendment…of course such would certainly be very good and encouraged…though it may not come as soon as one would like…it may take time. But as noted above it is the will here in the above that is more important…at the essence of things.

It just is the nature of feelings in the present fallen state…that they do not always come when called…like a good dog. Perhaps they are more like cats. 🙂
 
Again for readers here is how the Church describes the acts of the penitent for confession:

Catechism:

VII. The Acts of the Penitent

1450 "Penance requires . . . the sinner to endure all things willingly, be contrite of heart, confess with the lips, and practice complete humility and fruitful satisfaction."49

Contrition

1451 Among the penitent’s acts contrition occupies first place. Contrition is "sorrow of the soul and detestation for the sin committed, together with the resolution not to sin again."50

1452 When it arises from a love by which God is loved above all else, contrition is called “perfect” (contrition of charity). Such contrition remits venial sins; it also obtains forgiveness of mortal sins if it includes the firm resolution to have recourse to sacramental confession as soon as possible.51

1453 The contrition called “imperfect” (or “attrition”) is also a gift of God, a prompting of the Holy Spirit. It is born of the consideration of sin’s ugliness or the fear of eternal damnation and the other penalties threatening the sinner (contrition of fear). Such a stirring of conscience can initiate an interior process which, under the prompting of grace, will be brought to completion by sacramental absolution. By itself however, imperfect contrition cannot obtain the forgiveness of grave sins, but it disposes one to obtain forgiveness in the sacrament of Penance.52

1454 The reception of this sacrament ought to be prepared for by an examination of conscience made in the light of the Word of God. the passages best suited to this can be found in the moral catechesis of the Gospels and the apostolic Letters, such as the Sermon on the Mount and the apostolic teachings.53

The confession of sins

1455 The confession (or disclosure) of sins, even from a simply human point of view, frees us and facilitates our reconciliation with others. Through such an admission man looks squarely at the sins he is guilty of, takes responsibility for them, and thereby opens himself again to God and to the communion of the Church in order to make a new future possible.

1456 Confession to a priest is an essential part of the sacrament of Penance: "All mortal sins of which penitents after a diligent self-examination are conscious must be recounted by them in confession, even if they are most secret and have been committed against the last two precepts of the Decalogue; for these sins sometimes wound the soul more grievously and are more dangerous than those which are committed openly."54

When Christ’s faithful strive to confess all the sins that they can remember, they undoubtedly place all of them before the divine mercy for pardon. But those who fail to do so and knowingly withhold some, place nothing before the divine goodness for remission through the mediation of the priest, "for if the sick person is too ashamed to show his wound to the doctor, the medicine cannot heal what it does not know."55

1457 According to the Church’s command, "after having attained the age of discretion, each of the faithful is bound by an obligation faithfully to confess serious sins at least once a year."56 Anyone who is aware of having committed a mortal sin must not receive Holy Communion, even if he experiences deep contrition, without having first received sacramental absolution, unless he has a grave reason for receiving Communion and there is no possibility of going to confession.57 Children must go to the sacrament of Penance before receiving Holy Communion for the first time.58

…(more there but too long to post)

Satisfaction

1459 Many sins wrong our neighbor. One must do what is possible in order to repair the harm (e.g., return stolen goods, restore the reputation of someone slandered, pay compensation for injuries). Simple justice requires as much. But sin also injures and weakens the sinner himself, as well as his relationships with God and neighbor. Absolution takes away sin, but it does not remedy all the disorders sin has caused.62 Raised up from sin, the sinner must still recover his full spiritual health by doing something more to make amends for the sin: he must “make satisfaction for” or “expiate” his sins. This satisfaction is also called “penance.”

1460 The penance the confessor imposes must take into account the penitent’s personal situation and must seek his spiritual good. It must correspond as far as possible with the gravity and nature of the sins committed. It can consist of prayer, an offering, works of mercy, service of neighbor, voluntary self-denial, sacrifices, and above all the patient acceptance of the cross we must bear. Such penances help configure us to Christ, who alone expiated our sins once for all. They allow us to become co-heirs with the risen Christ, "provided we suffer with him."63

The satisfaction that we make for our sins, however, is not so much ours as though it were not done through Jesus Christ. We who can do nothing ourselves, as if just by ourselves, can do all things with the cooperation of “him who strengthens” us. Thus man has nothing of which to boast, but all our boasting is in Christ . . . in whom we make satisfaction by bringing forth “fruits that befit repentance.” These fruits have their efficacy from him, by him they are offered to the Father, and through him they are accepted by the Father.64

vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P4D.HTM
 
No they do not mean that one has to have some particular “feeling”. Contrition involves more the will. Though “feelings” certainly are good to have. But they do not always come at will. Such is their nature. One can often not will feelings…though often they will come via the consideration of the love of God…of what sin is before God…the sufferings Jesus went through out of love for us… Etc.

But again the words used there do not mean per se a particular feeling is required.
This is not to say one should not seek to have feelings of sorrow…feelings of detestation of the sin committed, emotionally moving firm purpose of amendment…of course such would certainly be very good and encouraged…though it may not come as soon as one would like…it may take time. But as noted above it is the will here in the above that is more important…at the essence of things.

It just is the nature of feelings in the present fallen state…that they do not always come when called…like a good dog. Perhaps they are more like cats. 🙂
 
You have “imperfect contrition” (sorrow due to fear of Hell) which has stirred within you a firm purpose of amendment. The way I read 1452 and 1453 of the CCC is that this sufficient for forgiveness through Penance. Having been forgiven, you should gradually work toward having “perfect contrition” (being sorry for a sin because it offends God and you love God above all else) for current or future sins.

(Someone please correct me if I am missing something.)
OP,
I agree with this.

Although I do think you have some serious issues to work through in regards to the level of confidence you display in the Church, but that should strengthen as you move forward.

Peace
James
 
IF the Church is right and the things I did in the past are going to send me to hell, then I’m sorry because I don’t want to go to hell.

If the Church is wrong about those things sending me to hell (even if those things were wrong) then I’m not really sorry because they were fun and I had a great time doing them.

I also have purpose of amendment (although some of those sins, like pre-marital sex, can’t be repeated anyway now that I’m married).

Is that enough contrition for absolution or not?

Please no discussion about how the church cannot be wrong.
I can identify somewhat with this because, in my case it was through a pretty horrible and sinful time that I found and married my dear wife…The best thing that ever happened to me…👍 But it leaves me somewhat conflicted abut the events and actions and decisions etc of that period.
I know that they were sinful and I am sorry for having done them (regardless of whether they were mortal sins or not). At the same time there are some wonderful, fond and warm feelings associated with that period in my life.

Taking a more objective look at this, what it appears we are dealing with is what is referred to as the “affection for sin”. Even though we know they are wrong, we still feel an attraction to them. This is not at all uncommon. It is simply part of the spiritual journey and something to be overcome gradually.
Likewise the aspect of being sorry only because of the possibility of hell not uncommon and is indicative of someone spiritually young.
As time goes on and you grow in your faith and understand more fully the love God has for you and the sacrifice of Christ and the centrality of Love in our relation to God and to each other, you will find that your contrition will change. You will grow to hate the sins of the past, not for fear of hell but for regret that you displeased God you you are growing to Love more each day.

Peace
James
 
IF the Church is right and the things I did in the past are going to send me to hell, then I’m sorry because I don’t want to go to hell.

If the Church is wrong about those things sending me to hell (even if those things were wrong) then I’m not really sorry because they were fun and I had a great time doing them.

I also have purpose of amendment (although some of those sins, like pre-marital sex, can’t be repeated anyway now that I’m married).

Is that enough contrition for absolution or not?

Please no discussion about how the church cannot be wrong.
How about, you went to confession, you received absolution, you are grateful for the absolution, and you forget the past.

Why dwell on the past?

Sometimes we Catholics stray. Then we come back. Think prodigal son. Did the father of the prodigal son tell him, “You wasted my money, you acted like a hedonist, I’ll keep reminding you the rest of your life.” Why should we treat our own souls like that?

For myself, I comitted many mortal sins. Some of them felt good at the time. Sometimes I rememeber them, especially sins with DH. Were they sins? objectively speaking they were, subjectively speaking, I’m not sure i was thinking about “sin” at the time.

Those are the hardest to forget, because with the “sin”, there was “love”. I think we knew the truth, but the truth is hard to find when the rest of our lives was in mortal sin.

I know when I left the Church, I was 14 and stopped going to Church. I knew that was a mortal sin. The other sins, maybe I didn’t “know” but because I was in a state of mortal sin objectively speaking, everything was compounded.

Going back knowing what I know now, I would not have left the Church. Maybe I would have seen things clearly, instead of in a fog.

Hope that makes sense.
 
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