Is this indifference?

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EIF5A

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I used to get worked up about defending marriage and opposing abortion. Perhaps I got too angry and veered into the territory of being judging the person and not the sin.

It seemed like I was obligated to say something, mostly in the form of comments on blogs and news articles.

Now I just don’t care. My own sins and spiritual life (or lack thereof) are burden enough.

It’s not like my words will have any effect on anyone who’s firmly decided for gay marriage or abortion.

It’s just tiring and seemingly useless.

They are ultimately responsible for themselves.

What little I can accomplish in prayer, I’ll still try to pray for the conversion of people and salvation of souls, but honestly, what can I possibly change?

Is it a sin to not care anymore about other people who vehemently condone sin?

It’s not like I’m a saint or have some moral authority to teach or rebuke.
 
Discussions on these topics can be delicate, and even more so depending on the people involved. I think you are only obligated to say something if you are able to do so in a constructive way. I find that calmly asking neutral questions about a person’s position can help them to clarify to themselves where their objections are really coming from (which are often not the reasons they will initially state). For example, many people who favor abortion actually do so because they don’t want to believe that premarital sex is wrong, and in that case abortion seems to be a necessary evil. If you can gently help them to recognize these motivations, you will have planted the seed for a future conversion. People generally don’t make a 180 in a single argument, but the truth is powerful and can gradually reawaken their conscience.

I think it’s important to avoid generic arguments and yelling. Ask questions and listen to where the individual is coming from. Often they will have legitimate insights, or some powerful experience in their past that they’ve slightly misinterpreted in some way. Identifying common ground can help. You want the dynamic to be two reasonable people who are calmly trying to identify the truth. That will automatically work to your advantage, because the truth is on your side!
 
Is it a sin to not care anymore about other people who vehemently condone sin?
Well, if you absolutely didn’t care that someone might be damned, yes, that would be sinful. But I doubt that’s the way you feel about folks who have erroneous views. You’re probably just sick and tired of getting a headache.

I quite agree with you: it can be a big pain to try to argue with people, especially when dealing with some of the more volatile subjects of our day. Consistently putting yourself in a position where you have to justify your most fundamental assumptions can be quite overwhelming. It’s no surprise that a person might feel drained from all of that.

I think there are those in our culture who have been called to be on the offense, and those of us who are called to be on the defense. The latter involves having good replies and rational and informed approaches to subjects, but only really bringing them up when necessary, or when a situation presents itself.

Ultimately, the quality of our arguments won’t convince people unless they are receptive to certain graces. While that doesn’t mean we should have bad arguments, it does mean that we should keep in mind that our role in all of this is always secondary, and that we should be open to simply plant seeds when possible, and not feel stress to do anything beyond that.
 
While that doesn’t mean we should have bad arguments, it does mean that we should keep in mind that our role in all of this is always secondary, and that we should be open to simply plant seeds when possible, and not feel stress to do anything beyond that.
Problem is I don’t know what my obligation is.

Did I speak too much? Did I remain silent and commit sin of omission?
 
Do you care about those who may be having abortions and SSM marriage? Do you pray for them? If so, then maybe it is just that you are tired of speaking up about it. I think someone can oppose something without blogging/posting/vocalizing it. I think one can still believe that it is wrong. Besides, God knows how you really feel about those things. Isn’t that what is most important?
 
It sounds to me like you are growing spiritually. If you were always on a high I’d tell you to get off the drugs.

I quit learning and teaching the faith for almost four years from a bad experience when working oversears and being part of a RCIA program that was just horrible. I know my wife kept praying for me and others, and it was their prayers that I finally woke up. It is difficult when you become frustrated as to why people cannot see God’s life manifested in the way your eyes and heart has been opened. Jesus said those who have eyes will see, and when you have been gifted with spiritual eyes you nor I nor anyone else has the right to shut them.

Keep praying and keep your faith. When you become ready to join the Church militant in Her spiritual battle you may find yourself equipped by God to be a great commander on the spiritual battle. Those precious little ones will always need you to fight for them, and people may not show it to you, but your conviction is conversion.
 
Do you care about those who may be having abortions and SSM marriage? Do you pray for them? If so, then maybe it is just that you are tired of speaking up about it. I think someone can oppose something without blogging/posting/vocalizing it. I think one can still believe that it is wrong. Besides, God knows how you really feel about those things. Isn’t that what is most important?
I care about them in a sense that I wish they weren’t having abortions and having gay marriage.

That said, I find it hard to be at peace when people nonchalantly support the ripping of limbs under the guise of “women’s health”. This morning, someone wrote that not everyone’s religious and that people should just butt out of women’s medical decisions.

It takes religion to be disgusted by horror?

I think people support things without fully realizing what it is; if you hear something long enough, something absurd seems to be true, especially if most people agree. I refuse to believe that an average person can be truly completely insensitive to what happens in abortion clinics.

In terms of prayer: I just pray that we may all see the truth. No matter what we believe, we are still in some way oriented to truth, or what we believe to be truth, so I pray that we may all see and be delivered from deception of the world.

Now is probably a good time for me to take a step back, focus on my own sins and failures, and just pray and desire the best for everyone.

Nothing is impossible with God, and nothing I say or do can amount to anything without God’s grace. All people can be converted and repent.
 
Problem is I don’t know what my obligation is.

Did I speak too much? Did I remain silent and commit sin of omission?
IMO, your obligation is directly related to the amount of responsibility you have over a particular individual. Saying nothing to a stranger on the internet who thinks that homosexual “marriages” are perfectly okay is one thing. Saying nothing to one’s 14 year old girl who seems to think abortion is just fine is quite another.

Likewise, remaining silent might be mortally sinful when your speaking up probably could have prevented some grave evil from occurring. As an extreme example, let’s say that someone is about to drink a cup of tea that’s been poisoned by their angry spouse. Let’s suppose that you know all about it. Well, if you absolutely refuse to warn them, and if they drink the tea and die, you’ve certainly committed a grave sin by keeping silent.

But in the case of individuals who have erroneous views: while said views might very well ultimately be dangerous to the well-being of their soul, it’s not as if their view only exists because you haven’t told them of a better one. Chances are high they’ve already heard most of what you’ll say, and have simply decided against it. It would be very hard to think that you’re committing a grave sin by not rehashing certain arguments against their world-view. Moreover, there’s a high likelihood they won’t even listen to you, but rather will simply try to poke holes in your argument, and to find ways to justify their position in spite of it. As such, I think that committing mortal sin in this case would be quite difficult.

It is important that we care about our neighbor’s soul, but this does not imply that arguing with them whenever they say something wrong is the best way to exhibit such care. We have to be prudent, and to do what is best in any given scenario.
 
  1. Your energy levels. No energy = end of you, kaput, full stop.
  2. You panic that if “you” don’t “do” something then whoever else God has got there won’t be good enough.
  3. In all these sins, there is someone more powerful putting the more vulnerable up to it. Those really to blame stay out of argument’s way and make sure the vulnerable ones remain the target doubly.
 
I used to get worked up about defending marriage and opposing abortion. Perhaps I got too angry and veered into the territory of being judging the person and not the sin.

It seemed like I was obligated to say something, mostly in the form of comments on blogs and news articles.

Now I just don’t care. My own sins and spiritual life (or lack thereof) are burden enough.

It’s not like my words will have any effect on anyone who’s firmly decided for gay marriage or abortion.

It’s just tiring and seemingly useless.

They are ultimately responsible for themselves.

What little I can accomplish in prayer, I’ll still try to pray for the conversion of people and salvation of souls, but honestly, what can I possibly change?
No it means you’re moving beyond the current mentality of so many Catholics that they Must Be Loud and Screechy on any given issue. If our enemies are loud, then we will be louder.

I was elected to a precinct position in 1994, as a conservative pro-life Republicans. Against my advice, those who were more pushy, failed to pass a bill that the governor would sign, because they were so busy grandstanding and pontificating and “not negotiating” and therefore they saved no babies. If they had been smart politically and compromised on one phrase they might have saved some, but no they would rather pass something they know will fail compared to something that will pass that “isn’t perfect.”

But because they have taken on the mantra of “the 5 non-negotiables” etc they have painted themselves into a political corner because in politics, you can’t simply “not negotiate” unless you have enough power to completely obliterate the competition.

Then later I started realizing something. Would Jesus have us go to the government to get others to stop sinning? No, someone will scream at me, it is about the civil rights of the babies. Then I say sure approach the issue of pro-life, gay-marriage or whatever rustles your jimmies as a citizen for the common good. But to brandish the name of Jesus and the credibility of the Church, frankly, as ostensible authority for trying to outdo our adversaries playing their game, makes it sound like Jesus would whoop up on sinners, rather than those who accuse them. But how are we different than our opposition? We can scream louder? How are we different than Westboro Baptist Church, except maybe they are a little more direct?

Mark Twain — ‘Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.’

Jesus calls us through love and mercy; those are his tools. The government has access to authorized use of deadly force if we don’t comply. So we have two different systems and God help us if either Church or state takes over the other completely.

Why should any Catholic even care if others are going to be “gay married” except as a civil issue? Already the Church does not civil weddings as valid under many conditions; this is just another. “Sanctity of marriage” is, just like the gay marriage advocates say, already pretty much out the window on a civil basis at least, with all the divorce.

Jesus said all these things would happen, and He said not to worry about it. He said not to go to the government against our neighbors to solve our problems.

We as Catholics have gone way overboard at preaching to others and lost sight of any personal transformation other than active participation in the verbal ego wars.

Maybe you’re growing out of the need to be significant by promoting the mantra of certain political activists that may or may not be doing things that bring them closer to God.

Consider the possibility God is calling you into a deeper relationship, one bounded on love rather than acts to be seen before others. Here is a Franciscan friar Richard Rohr with a different view than you normally hear. A lot of people don’t like this guy, and you can see why. He doesn’t go along with “common thinking”. Some think he should be kicked out but he has lasted at least three popes now, all of whom were made aware of him, and neither the pope nor his abbot have censured him. I believe he has sold more books than any other Catholic author but I am not sure of that.

What Did Jesus Really Teach
Is it a sin to not care anymore about other people who vehemently condone sin?
It’s not like I’m a saint or have some moral authority to teach or rebuke.
It is not a sin to concern yourselves with your own relationship with God rather than focusing on the sins of others (whether by commission or omission), and then let the Holy Spirit take it from there. Jesus told us as much. The path that leads to destruction is wide, so at some point you have to get off of that beaten path.

And exactly. Who are we to presume to tell others we have the moral high ground? Again, work it as a citizen but don’t go fighting loud and arduous battles, in and out of court rooms, in the name of God. How dare we do that? We do because that’s what we’ve been shown and what has been modeled by some of the Most Visible Catholics.
 
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