Is this insulting to the Eucharist [photo]

[Gorgias]

@Gorgias, are you purposely misunderstanding what I mean by the Eucharist is a blessing from God?

No. I’m trying to understand the nuances of what you’re attempting to say.

Let’s suppose your priest blesses Holy Water for you. Do you believe that the blessing would kill any microorganisms in that Holy Water? Do you believe that adding the Holy Water to food would prevent a person from getting physically sick from eating the food? Because… in the way you’re saying it… I’m getting the idea that you might want to answer “yes” – and that’s not something that the Church would agree with.

Exactly… it is a sad day when I have to fear taking a bag from the person in the grocery store because of a virus.

Its a sad day when I can’t give someone I just meet a hand shake in greeting because of fear of getting a virus.

OK. I agree with you. These are sad days. Real, mind you, but sad nevertheless.

and its not fears we’ve had before, there was always the chance of catching something from someone,

Yeah, but this is one that we don’t have the proper ability to detect (in sufficient numbers of tests), or the ability to vaccinate against, or the ability to treat particularly effectively (for those with severe cases). THAT’S what makes this a ‘pandemic’ and not just a ‘flu season.’

 

[annad347]

Let’s suppose your priest blesses Holy Water for you. Do you believe that the blessing would kill any microorganisms in that Holy Water?

If I say yes, what does that mean? I’m crazy?

How about if I say, I believe something blessed by God will not kill me, but that doesn’t mean I can not be killed by something that is blessed by God.

 

[Gorgias]

If I say yes, what does that mean? I’m crazy?

No. I would just say that you misunderstand what the Sacraments are about. (They’re about spiritual blessing, not physical effects, per se.)

How about if I say, I believe something blessed by God will not kill me, but that doesn’t mean I can not be killed by something that is blessed by God.

I get the distinction you’re making. I would disagree, though, that “something blessed by God will not kill me”. Ask a celiac to consume a regular host, and then listen to them describe the physical effects on their body.

 

[annad347]

No. I would just say that you misunderstand what the Sacraments are about. (They’re about spiritual blessing, not physical effects, per se.)

a blessing is a blessing.

Ask a celiac to consume a regular host, and then listen to them describe the physical effects on their body.

Celiac disease had to look it up. They have to choose between receiving the Eucharist or being free of unspeakable pain? Can’t imagine having to make that choice.

 

[Gorgias]

a blessing is a blessing.

Sure, but we’re asking about the effects of a blessing. Do you expect that the sacraments have physical effects (for instance, protection from viruses)?

 

[annad347]

Do you expect that the sacraments have physical effects (for instance, protection from viruses)?

To believe that would be an unbelievable test to my faith… dont you think?

 

[Gorgias]

To believe that would be an unbelievable test to my faith… dont you think?

I think it would be an unreasonable test.

But, that’s kinda what we were talking about, isn’t it? Whether you could get ill from catching a virus that was present on a Eucharistic host?

So, since I’m a kinda black-and-white, “just the facts, ma’am” kinda guy, it seems pretty cut and dried to me:

• either you hold that the effects of the Eucharist are physical, and therefore, you can’t get ill from the Eucharist (which would go against Church teaching and common sense)
• or you hold that the effects of the Eucharist are spiritual, and therefore, you don’t expect that reception of the Eucharist prevents you from having a physical reaction to whatever is physically present in or on the Eucharist you consume.

Right?

 

[annad347]

So, since I’m a kinda black-and-white, “just the facts, ma’am” kinda guy, it seems pretty cut and dried to me:

you’re a guy? shocked

Alas, sorry to say there is no black-and-white, “just the facts, ma’am”, cut and dry kind of answer… not when it comes to God’s will.

What I believe or don’t believe, God’s will over rides everything… and it is an, as you said, an unfair test to faith. That I agree with you, because if it is God’s will that I should die from a virus, then I will die.

Also keep in mind, you have to question who’s faith is doing the blessing, mine or my priest?

Then what does it mean if I do die… was my faith not real, was the priest’s faith not real, was the blessing not real.

and THEN, on top of that, if I say yes, a blessed Eucharist can not contain any viruses… can the same faith apply to a gun, a knife… poison, a car heading for me at 100m/hr?

see there is no black & white, bottom line, just the fact answer… God isn’t that simple… and God’s will, will always be done.

I’d rather stick with I believe nothing blessed by God can kill me, but that does not mean I can not be killed by something blessed by God… and that would include if I had celiac disease.

 

[Gorgias]

you’re a guy? shocked

LOL!

Also keep in mind, you have to question who’s faith is doing the blessing, mine or my priest?

Umm… neither!

In your faith, you ask for a blessing. In the priest’s faith, he performs the blessing. But, it’s really God’s blessing. So…

Then what does it mean if I do die… was my faith not real, was the priest’s faith not real, was the blessing not real.

…none of the above! All were real – but the blessing wasn’t for physical benefit, per se. Remember, we’re talking about reception of the Eucharist, right? So then, the reason we receive the Eucharist is to receive grace. So, if we die (from whatever physical cause) after reception, it’s not like our faith or the priests’ faith or the Eucharist itself was defective – the spiritual gift of grace and the physical operation of our bodies are distinct and different things altogether!

I’d rather stick with I believe nothing blessed by God can kill me, but that does not mean I can not be killed by something blessed by God…

That sounds good on the surface… but it kinda sounds like a logical contradiction. “Having your cake and eating it, too”, as it were.

(By the way, in our example of the Eucharist that has coronavirus on it? It’s not the Eucharist that kills you; it’s the virus.)