Is this kind of BEACH Baptism Valid?

[JustaServant]

Beach Blanket Baptism?

Sorry, couldn’t resist.

 

[ltwin]

I agree. It remains to see whether the doctrine of this denomination is sound enough so as not to hinder the minister’s intention or the recipient’s disposition, thus rendering the baptism invalid.

It’s a Calvary Chapel. They have a belief statement at calvarychapel.com/about/.

Calvary Chapel South Orlando’s beliefs are posted on their website at calvaryso.com/statement-of-beliefs.html

 

[fbl9]

That doesn’t make very much sense to me. I was taught in RCIA that in an emergency, you can even baptize someone with saliva or ditch water.

okay i am wrong. living water is equal to salt water.
going by the video i didn’t see much in the way of an emergency.

 

[Zekariya]

In the early Church, those who are baptized were baptized naked. Because we are being born again into Christ, we are baptized the way we were born, naked. So what you wear had nothing to do with the validity of baptism. Today’s sensibilities would have adults being baptize wear a “baptismal gown” which is a white gown worn over pretty much nothing. Some may put on swimwear underneath. But traditionally anyone who is baptized is baptized naked. Today we only do that with infants.

Agreed!

The Orthodox parish I was baptized in had no baptismal font. I was baptized right outside of the building in a blowup pool, wearing trunks and a t-shirt.

 

[Zekariya]

okay i am wrong. living water is equal to salt water.
going by the video i didn’t see much in the way of an emergency.

“And concerning baptism, baptize this way: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living water. But if you have not living water, baptize into other water; and if you can not in cold, in warm. But if you have not either, pour out water thrice upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit.” - The Didache, Chapter 7 [emphasis mine]

Source: newadvent.org/fathers/0714.htm

Most scholars place the Didache at some point during the mid to late first century (during the lifetime of some of the Apostles).

 

[andrewstx]

What is “invalid” to you.

“Holy is the Lord, God almighty, the earth is filled with His glory”

Yeah I can see how that might be unsettling. :whacky:

Anyway, the guy singing was Chris Tomlin. These songs are from his cd. This wasn’t live music being played at the baptism. This music was added to the video after it was already made. We have no way of knowing what, if any, music was played at this baptism.

Just from the purpose of practicallity it would be impossible to schlep a pipe organ to the beach.

It looks more devout than my baptism, I was baptised oufdoors in a horse trough on Oct 30 and froze.

 

[andrewstx]

It’s a Calvary Chapel. They have a belief statement at calvarychapel.com/about/.

Calvary Chapel South Orlando’s beliefs are posted on their website at calvaryso.com/statement-of-beliefs.html

I am not so sure that this “non-denomonational” denomination is orthodox.

They call baptism an “ordinance” only and not a sacrament. And they seem to teach that adult submerrsion is the only valid form for baptism.

I was submerrsed as an adult, but only becuase I was never baptised as a baby and Orthodoxy preffers immersion but we accept pouring when the situation makes immersion impossible.

They teach the same as baptists,and baptists are certianlly a denomination.

 

[ltwin]

I am not so sure that this “non-denomonational” denomination is orthodox.

They are pretty typical of low church evangelical Protestant contemporary worship free church types. Nothing particularly problematic in terms of whether they are “Christian.”

They call baptism an “ordinance” only and not a sacrament.

Pentecostals call them ordinances too. (We also use the term sacrament but we don’t possess an understanding of “sacraments” that Catholics would agree with). “Sacrament” is not a term found in the Bible, and they are believed to be acts ordered by Christ. So “ordinance” is just as good a term to describe them as any.

And they seem to teach that adult submerrsion is the only valid form for baptism.

So do many Protestants. Pentecostals and Baptists often see immersion as the only valid mode.

I was submerrsed as an adult, but only becuase I was never baptised as a baby and Orthodoxy preffers immersion but we accept pouring when the situation makes immersion impossible.

They teach the same as baptists,and baptists are certianlly a denomination.

I would consider Calvary Chapel a denomination as well, but in their eyes they are a very loose fellowship of churches that agree with the ministry philosophy of Chuck Smith. Which is true. It doesn’t govern churches like a typical denomination, but strictly speaking they are a very loosely organized denomination.

 

[simspt]

They are pretty typical of low church evangelical Protestant contemporary worship free church types. Nothing particularly problematic in terms of whether they are “Christian.”

Pentecostals call them ordinances too. (We also use the term sacrament but we don’t possess an understanding of “sacraments” that Catholics would agree with). “Sacrament” is not a term found in the Bible, and they are believed to be acts ordered by Christ. So “ordinance” is just as good a term to describe them as any.

So do many Protestants. Pentecostals and Baptists often see immersion as the only valid mode.

I would consider Calvary Chapel a denomination as well, but in their eyes they are a very loose fellowship of churches that agree with the ministry philosophy of Chuck Smith. Which is true. It doesn’t govern churches like a typical denomination, but strictly speaking they are a very loosely organized denomination.

They accept the orthodox doctrine on the Trinity while simultaneously denying the orthodox teaching on baptism, Eucharist etc and claim the Church lost its way very early but got it right on the canon of NT and a few doctrines:shrug:

 

[ltwin]

They accept the orthodox doctrine on the Trinity while simultaneously denying the orthodox teaching on baptism, Eucharist etc and claim the Church lost its way very early but got it right on the canon of NT and a few doctrines:shrug:

Yeah, not much different from most Protestants.

 

[Holly3278]

That song was an invalid form of music.

I imagine that you are joking but just to make sure, you are joking, right? There’s nothing with Christian Contemporary Music? Now granted I do not think it should be played in place of hymns at Mass but I see nothing wrong with it being on a Youtube video or by listening to it simply for the sake of enjoyment. I listen to Christian Contemporary Music all the time and have a collection of it.

 

[Holly3278]

I imagine that you are joking but just to make sure, you are joking, right? There’s nothing wrong with Christian Contemporary Music. Now granted I do not think it should be played in place of hymns at Mass but I see nothing wrong with it being on a Youtube video or by listening to it simply for the sake of enjoyment. I listen to Christian Contemporary Music all the time and have a collection of it.

 

[andrewstx]

They are pretty typical of low church evangelical Protestant contemporary worship free church types. Nothing particularly problematic in terms of whether they are “Christian.”

Pentecostals call them ordinances too. (We also use the term sacrament but we don’t possess an understanding of “sacraments” that Catholics would agree with). “Sacrament” is not a term found in the Bible, and they are believed to be acts ordered by Christ. So “ordinance” is just as good a term to describe them as any.

So do many Protestants. Pentecostals and Baptists often see immersion as the only valid mode.

I would consider Calvary Chapel a denomination as well, but in their eyes they are a very loose fellowship of churches that agree with the ministry philosophy of Chuck Smith. Which is true. It doesn’t govern churches like a typical denomination, but strictly speaking they are a very loosely organized denomination.

But the term “ordinance” is not found anywhere in the bible either. I get the feeling that some Protestants use that word solely to be different from Catholics.

Are Baptists and Pentecostals not familar with the Didache?

I was raised in the Pat Boone Pentecostal version of the “church of Christ” and was baptised in the spirit when I was 19, in a charismatic Catholic church.

 

[andrewstx]

Yeah, not much different from most Protestants.

Most Protestants? I don’t think that is true of Presbityrians, Methodists,
Congregationalists, Episcopalians, or Lutherans or any main-line Protestant church. I think that thinking is mostly limited to fundamentalist thinking.

 

[SteveVH]

Please take a look at this baptism performed at the beach:
Calvary Chapel South Orlando Beach Baptism

Considering how solemn is the baptism ceremony in the Catholic Church, I wonder if those women in bikini can make their baptism, somewhat, invalid? Or maybe it doesn’t matter how profane or vulgar one dresses, as long as there is this intention to be baptized, the protestant can do it any way they want so long they use the trinitarian formula? What are the restrictions or reservations of reverence, if any, that if violated, God at His own discretion, can nullify the protestant baptism?

“If you were baptized off a boat dock, you might just be a redneck.”

• Jeff Foxworthy

 

[ltwin]

But the term “ordinance” is not found anywhere in the bible either.

That isn’t the point. The point is that a lot of theological terms are not used in the Bible. Such terms are not sacrosanct, and we’re under no obligation to use them.

I get the feeling that some Protestants use that word solely to be different from Catholics.

Not just for the sake of being different from Catholics, but more importantly to be clear as to what we mean. The term “sacrament” is not a bad term, and it has been used by many evangelical Protestants. A sacrament can be defined as “an outward ceremony of the Church, ordained as a visible sign of an inward and spiritual grace … a sign of the union of the soul with God.” However, often times people confuse the definition of a sacrament with “sacramentalism” as associated with the Catholic Church. The term “ordinance” is used not as a protest against Catholics, but as to be clearer about what those who use the term actually mean. By using the term “ordinance” we can avoid confusion.

Are Baptists and Pentecostals not familar with the Didache?

I am. Do I count?

Most Protestants? I don’t think that is true of Presbityrians, Methodists,
Congregationalists, Episcopalians, or Lutherans or any main-line Protestant church. I think that thinking is mostly limited to fundamentalist thinking.

What do you mean? No Protestant is in 100% agreement with the Catholic Church “on baptism, Eucharist, etc” and most do believe to some degree or another that “the Church lost its way very early but got it right on the canon of NT and a few doctrines.”

 

[4Squarebaby]

So do many Protestants. Pentecostals and Baptists often see immersion as the only valid mode.

.

I don’t think “valid” is the right connotation since its record is not used to try to determine the salvation of others. If you are going to do it since the baptism is about the public pronouncement of faith the attempt is to as best as possible do it the same way as they read Jesus was in their Bibles. It is not something to be hidden but something to be done out in the open

 

[Indifferently]

As to whether they got the NT Canon right, how can we POSSIBLY even know? Is there anything in the Gospel where Jesus specifies what the Bible is meant to look like? When we place too much emphasis on a book we end up becoming more like Muslims.

 

[Indifferently]

I imagine that you are joking but just to make sure, you are joking, right? There’s nothing with Christian Contemporary Music? Now granted I do not think it should be played in place of hymns at Mass but I see nothing wrong with it being on a Youtube video or by listening to it simply for the sake of enjoyment. I listen to Christian Contemporary Music all the time and have a collection of it.

I have a strong feeling that the types of rhythms and instruments used in contemporary music are designed to induce primal sexual urges.

 

[hn160]

There is a scene in the movie O’ Brother Where Art Thou of creek baptism and the song is Going Down To The River To Pray. In this clip as in the movie the baptisms are not valid if the person was baptized before or if they were not baptized with the correct wording. The theology of some Protestants ( Baptist, Pentecostals, etc ) is all screwed up.