Is this liturgical abuse?

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LynnM74

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This year at our 4:30 Christmas Eve Mass, which is called the children’s mass because the children’s choir sings, our pastor chose to read the gospel from the children’s liturgy book. It paraphrased the gospel, and used words like “baby clothes” instead of swaddling clothing. He also chose the same version of the gospel story at last year’s mass.

Last year, for his homily at this mass, he spoke for all of 2 minutes, and basically said, let’s enjoy Christmas and thanks for coming. This year, he spoke for about 1 minute and then allowed our director of education read a children’s book, which was only somewhat religious in nature, and written for children about 5 yrs old.

Condisering that many people only come to church on Christmas and Easter, I thought that our pastor was potentially repelling anyone who might have been considering joining our church or converting to our faith. His choices definintely turned me off… Our church is packed with people at this mass, but maybe 5% of those there were children…

The question is, if he was committing some kind of liturgical abuse, should I bring it up with him?
 
I don’t know if it is officially an abuse or not, but it is one reason I loathe “Baby Jesus” Masses as that sort of thing is common. That being said, I went to the “children’s Mass” at my son’s parish because I care for my grandchildren more than I dislike the frequent practice of blowing off the homily at these events. I was pleasantly surprised that the homily was thoughtful and had some points I hadn’t thought of before. No condescending puffy stuff.
 
It is completely legitimate to use children’s mass readings… at masses for children. I’m not going to call this liturgical abuse, because someone inevitably on here will get mad (-_-…), so you decide for yourself. It is always an abuse of the liturgy to intentionally do contrary to the laws governing the celebration of mass, and no one will ever convince me otherwise. There are certainly things that are majorly worse than others, but doing one thing intentionally wrong is an abuse. You decide in this case. Perhaps someone else may be able to comment on what the specific rules are governing the use of children’s readings at mass, and with that information, you can make a decision for yourself.

His homily, although probably… lacking… was fully within the rubrics of the Church, and there’s nothing at all you can do with that one.

Honestly, I would let it go. It would be getting to me just the same as it is to you right now, and I wouldn’t like it one bit, but hey, I doubt you’re going to rouse any change since it was only done at one mass. That is no excuse at all, but still. All you can do, and what I advise you to do, is pray a rosary every day with your intention being either the continued conversion of the priests at your church, or for vocations to the priesthood.

🙂
 
Definitely a poor Mass. I recommend you stay there, work for change, but most of all, donate to a more faithful organization. Another action you can take is to not attend this particular mass and encourage others to do the same. When the attendance and donations dry up, change will inevitably occur.
 
My parish doesn’t do the children’s Mass at Christmas, but during the religious ed school year they have a “Children’s liturgy of the Word” at Sunday Mass where the grade school aged kids go down to our chapel from the 1st reading till the presentation of the gifts and a lay Catechist goes over the scripture readings of the day with the kids on a simpler level, while us adults sit upstairs and get a normal homily. It seems to work well.
 
The words “liturgical abuse” should not be used so lightly. Please don’t go there. What you describe (LynnM74) is not “abuse”. Using the Lectionary for Children is allowed and encouraged at liturgies at which many children are present. A homily is required and good and bad homilies happen all the time. none of us have any control over that. Reflections by lay people are also allowed at masses for children. Don’t you have a choice to go to another mass that would suite you better on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day? When our children were small we would attend a 4pm vigil on Christmas Eve for children. Now that they are grown it is no longer appropriate for us. Don’t go criticizing or complaining. Doing so is more of an abuse than what you describe. This attitude really bothers me because I know that all involved putting together this kind of liturgy do so out of love. They are welcoming…not “repelling” people. Thats just so mean to say something like that, in my opinion.
 
LynnM74 said:
This year at our 4:30 Christmas Eve Mass, which is called the children’s mass because the children’s choir sings, our pastor chose to read the gospel from the children’s liturgy book. It paraphrased the gospel, and used words like “baby clothes” instead of swaddling clothing. He also chose the same version of the gospel story at last year’s mass.

?
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no it is not a liturgical abuse to have a Children’s Mass at any time, there is a lectionary and Eucharistic prayers especially for this purpose, which is where most of those attending are young children. Everything we do not like, are not familiar with, or is different from Mass at our favorite parish is not, by definition therefore, an abuse.

there is plenty of real abuse going around, those actions on the part of the celebrant which threaten the licity of the celebration, or the validity of the Eucharist, without wasting time on that which is well within the norms.
 
At the mass I attended the priest invited all the precious little children up to join him in the sanctuary and they all sat on the floor and he told them about a 35 minute story. I can’t remember what it was about for it was so long I dozed off.
 
puzzleannie said:
there is plenty of real abuse going around, those actions on the part of the celebrant which threaten the licity of the celebration, or the validity of the Eucharist, without wasting time on that which is well within the norms.
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Puzzleannie…that is just not true! the MAJORITY of priest presiders, lay ministers and assemblies celebrate very reverently. There are only a few things that can threaten the licity of a mass or validity of the Eucharist.

Sorry for the tone of my posts but I get upset when people make statements without reading the liturgical documents, at least in a logical way.
 
Anna_Claire said:
Puzzleannie…that is just not true! the MAJORITY of priest presiders, lay ministers and assemblies celebrate very reverently. There are only a few things that can threaten the licity of a mass or validity of the Eucharist.

Sorry for the tone of my posts but I get upset when people make statements without reading the liturgical documents, at least in a logical way.
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👍
 
Anna_Claire said:
Puzzleannie…that is just not true! the MAJORITY of priest presiders, lay ministers and assemblies celebrate very reverently. There are only a few things that can threaten the licity of a mass or validity of the Eucharist.

Sorry for the tone of my posts but I get upset when people make statements without reading the liturgical documents, at least in a logical way.
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Puzzleannie is very well versed in liturgical documents. In her defense, what I read her post to say is that the Mass described by the OP was fine and that, in general, we should not be quick to describe everything as “liturgical abuse”.

There are abusive practices that have been described in this forum, although the most common - glass chalices - does not make the Mass invalid.

I love the idea of saying a rosary (or other prayer) every day for our priests and for more vocations.
 
Anna_Claire said:
Puzzleannie…that is just not true! the MAJORITY of priest presiders, lay ministers and assemblies celebrate very reverently. There are only a few things that can threaten the licity of a mass or validity of the Eucharist.

Sorry for the tone of my posts but I get upset when people make statements without reading the liturgical documents, at least in a logical way.
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yes that is precisely my point. There should not be any threads labelled “liturgical abuse” that do not deal with real liturgical abuse. I think we are both on the same pace.

We can’t run around like Gomer Pyle “citizen’s arrest, citizen’s arrest” hurling “litugical abuse” at every thing we see in church that we are unfamiliar with.
 
LynnM74 said:
This year at our 4:30 Christmas Eve Mass, which is called the children’s mass because the children’s choir sings, our pastor chose to read the gospel from the children’s liturgy book. It paraphrased the gospel, and used words like “baby clothes” instead of swaddling clothing. He also chose the same version of the gospel story at last year’s mass.

Last year, for his homily at this mass, he spoke for all of 2 minutes, and basically said, let’s enjoy Christmas and thanks for coming. This year, he spoke for about 1 minute and then allowed our director of education read a children’s book, which was only somewhat religious in nature, and written for children about 5 yrs old.

Condisering that many people only come to church on Christmas and Easter, I thought that our pastor was potentially repelling anyone who might have been considering joining our church or converting to our faith. His choices definintely turned me off… Our church is packed with people at this mass, but maybe 5% of those there were children…

The question is, if he was committing some kind of liturgical abuse, should I bring it up with him?
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Going to a childrens’ mass, which was advertised as a childrens’ mass, and then complaining that you were at a childrens’ mass is a little bit… well… disingenious. Regardless of the percentage of people who showed up who were children or not, the priest was in his rights to do everything you have listed here. If you don’t like childrens’ masses, then go to a different mass instead of coming on here and blasting your priest.
 
LynnM74 said:
The question is, if he was committing some kind of liturgical abuse, should I bring it up with him?
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I suppose you’d rather they be bored out of their minds as they are at typical masses and grow up wanting nothing to do with any of it. Do you like the squirming, screaming and whining that is the usual result of mass attendance? What you witnessed sounds wonderful and if you don’t like it, don’t go.
 
We never go to a Childrens Mass. Personally, I think that most kids are old enough to go to the other Masses. Too often they are talked down to and priests don’t realize they know more than the priest thinks they do. I too think they’re primarily so kids can get up early and open their Christmas presents.

However, we went to the Mass afterwords and Msgr. used the same homily. He had the kids sit in front of the pews, and the questions he asked them were direct and to the point, explaining the Eucharist and maybe some things adults didn’t event think of so I definitely did like this Mass. Perhaps some of the parents really don’t teach the kids the real meaning of Christmas, so they have to learn this in Church.

Given that there are other Masses to go to, and in other parishes unless you live in an area where there’s only one Catholic Church, I feel no reason to choose our parish Mass if it’s at an inconvenient time.

We had a guest for dinner,otherwisw would have gone to the TLM Mass that afternoon.
 
promethius said:
Going to a childrens’ mass, which was advertised as a childrens’ mass, and then complaining that you were at a childrens’ mass is a little bit… well… disingenious. Regardless of the percentage of people who showed up who were children or not, the priest was in his rights to do everything you have listed here. If you don’t like childrens’ masses, then go to a different mass instead of coming on here and blasting your priest.
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He simply wanted to know if it was liturgical abuse or not which is a legitimate question… Many liturgical abuses have been taking place after Vatican II due to poor catechesis. The new translation of the Novus Ordo Mass in English is only a small step in the right direction but there is still a lot that has to be done.

God love you
Pax Christi
 
promethius said:
Going to a childrens’ mass, which was advertised as a childrens’ mass, and then complaining that you were at a childrens’ mass is a little bit… well… disingenious. Regardless of the percentage of people who showed up who were children or not, the priest was in his rights to do everything you have listed here. If you don’t like childrens’ masses, then go to a different mass instead of coming on here and blasting your priest.
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Um, actually, he was not “in his rights” for almost everything listed in the OP. Actually, the two major points he made are changes the priest may not make. Let’s see…

Paraphrasing the Readings? Not allowed.
A Homily that speaks nothing of the readings and barely the feast? Nope.
[edited]
 
LynnM74 said:
This year, he spoke for about 1 minute and then allowed our director of education read a children’s book, which was only somewhat religious in nature, and written for children about 5 yrs old.
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Isn’t this an issue, as only priests or deacons should be giving homilies?
 
TheMc said:
Um, actually, he was not “in his rights” for almost everything listed in the OP. Actually, the two major points he made are changes the priest may not make. Let’s see…

Paraphrasing the Readings? Not allowed.
A Homily that speaks nothing of the readings and barely the feast? Nope.
[edited].
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I don’t have a Children’s Lectionary handy but if I remember from years past I believe “baby clothes” is the word used. So there would not have been “paraphrased” readings since approved readings were used.

The bigger problem I see is if it is valid to assume that the majority of the people present at the Children’s Mass would, in fact, be children. Does anyone know if a priest is supposed to change plans for readings and Mass parts if a Mass is “planned” to be for a children’s majority but when Mass begins it becomes obvious that more adults are present than children?

At least for my parish it is the intent that the majority of the attendees would be children. But the reality is that the children are typically outnumbered by their parents, their grandparents, and all the people who just want to get Mass out of the way so they can proceed on to their other Christmas activities. I’m not sure how it works out in recent years since we have an “overflow Mass” in the Parish Center which starts 15 minutes after the Children’s Mass. I know some parishioners who *plan *to attend this Mass because it is not advertized to the public as are the regularly scheduled Christmas Masses.
 
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