Is this liturgical dancing? Is it allowed?

[Nekic]

At my parish, there were several First Holy Communion Masses over a couple of weeks.

During these masses, the thanksgiving hymn was fused with what was called a “litugical dance.”

Is this what people on these forums (and me also, for that matter) keep whinging about? Because when i read old threads on the topic, i imagine a little girl in a tutu dancing to the priest saying the eucharistic prayer.

Is the form of liturgical dance come under the umbrella of what people keep complaining about?

Is it allowed?

Ps. It isn’t really a dance.
What exactly happened was the kids who made their first communion went up to the bottom of the sanctuary steps and did actions to the song…

 

[puzzleannie]

If the kids sang Shine Jesus Shine or some other song, with some hand movements, that is called singing, not dancing, and no, it is not an abuse.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Nekić:

At my parish, there were several First Holy Communion Masses over a couple of weeks.

During these masses, the thanksgiving hymn was fused with what was called a “litugical dance.”

Is this what people on these forums (and me also, for that matter) keep whinging about? Because when i read old threads on the topic, i imagine a little girl in a tutu dancing to the priest saying the eucharistic prayer.

Is the form of liturgical dance come under the umbrella of what people keep complaining about?

Is it allowed?

Ps. It isn’t really a dance.
What exactly happened was the kids who made their first communion went up to the bottom of the sanctuary steps and did actions to the song…

When it becomes more entertainment then anything else it is an abuse. It has been spoken of by some documents and they indicate that it is oroper to certain cultures. Everything done within the liturgy should always point to the Sacrifice of the Mass taking place and never attract attention to itself.

 

[James_2_24]

puzzleannie:

If the kids sang Shine Jesus Shine or some other song, with some hand movements, that is called singing, not dancing, and no, it is not an abuse.

I respectfully disagree, this would be something that would probably make me walk out. I would start to feel they are trying to entertain me.

God Bless.

 

[puzzleannie]

If this singing with hand movements took place during a children’s Mass, which is often the setting for First Communion, it is appropriate for the children to sing, and if there are too many to fit in the choir area, it is legitimate for them to stand in front of the altar, usually this is done for one song before or after Mas. the hand movements are devices to help them remember the words (or sometimes are actual sign language for the deaf, which is always acceptable and not entertainment, we often sing the Our Father this way for children’s Masses.). They may also, if properly prepared serve as readers for children’s Masses.

If it is the context of a regular Sunday Mass and staged as entertainment, it is certainly questionable, and may border on abuse, depends on the song, the timing, and the context. Certainly if they were up there providing “entertainment” during the entire Mass that would be an abuse. OP mentioned one song before Mass.

We don’t do it here because our first communions take place during regular Sunday Masses. Wish our choirs would take that into account and sing hymns appropriate, but we take what we can get. This has been done during my grandchildren’s first communions, which are children’s Masses on Saturday evening, with children very well trained as lectors and cantors, serving in beautiful reverent Masses, demonstrating they have been well instructed by parents and catechists and Catholic school teachers on Mass and the Sacrament.

 

[netmilsmom]

puzzleannie:

If it is the context of a regular Sunday Mass and staged as entertainment, it is certainly questionable, and may border on abuse, depends on the song, the timing, and the context. Certainly if they were up there providing “entertainment” during the entire Mass that would be an abuse. OP mentioned one song before Mass.

.

The OP said…
"At my parish, there were several First Holy Communion Masses over a couple of weeks.

During these masses, the thanksgiving hymn was fused with what was called a “litugical dance.”

This is not before mass.

And in my mind it perpetuates the idea that this is just a time when a child dresses up and is the center of attention, not because they are receiving Jesus for the first time but rather because it’s nearer to a birthday party.

Our parish has one Mass that is the First Communion mass. The children are in a procession which is followed by the Priests and are the first to receive. It is pious and teaches them that the focus is still Jesus. It’s not a party or a school play.

Perhaps after or before mass would be fine, but not during. And at least they weren’t around the Altar for the Consecration.

 

[kaymart]

puzzleannie:

If the kids sang Shine Jesus Shine or some other song, with some hand movements, that is called singing, not dancing, and no, it is not an abuse.

I’m with you. Watching and listening our sweet children of the Parish sing “Shine Jesus Shine” is beautiful. If anyone understands children they would know that little ones are “motion machines” and to stay perfectly still is hard, so they rock and sway or swing their little arms. This is their day, not a Sunday Mass, at least in my Parish, It’s held The first 2 Saturdays in May (2 Classes) there are so many other problems in the Church to worry about. God Bless the little Children. Now dancers at regular Masses never seen it, and would walk out discretly if I ever saw it. I don’t know what it is but from what I hear it sounds like some kind of “Broadway Show”

 

[puzzleannie]

netmil(name removed by moderator):

The OP said…
"At my parish, there were several First Holy Communion Masses over a couple of weeks.

During these masses, the thanksgiving hymn was fused with what was called a “litugical dance.”

.

I never heard the term thanksgiving hymn and assumed it meant before or after Mass. I quite agree that if done in the spirit of giving the kiddies a chance to perform for the cameras it could be an abuse, but to my mind, as you said, having the kids congregate around the altar for the congregation is a far graver one.

 

[netmilsmom]

kaymart:

I’m with you. Watching and listening our sweet children of the Parish sing “Shine Jesus Shine” is beautiful. If anyone understands children they would know that little ones are “motion machines” and to stay perfectly still is hard, so they rock and sway or swing their little arms. This is their day, not a Sunday Mass, at least in my Parish, It’s held The first 2 Saturdays in May (2 Classes) there are so many other problems in the Church to worry about. God Bless the little Children. Now dancers at regular Masses never seen it, and would walk out discretly if I ever saw it. I don’t know what it is but from what I hear it sounds like some kind of “Broadway Show”

LOL!
Motion machines are perfect for the playground. NOT for the mass.
Kids will only be what one expects them to be.
If you expect that they can’t hold still, they won’t.

We had almost 75 kids filling eight rows of our church. We expected them to act correctly. They did. Three teachers and four parents helped those who got antsy during the nearly TWO hour mass.

Let’s not lower the bar and maybe we won’t have “so many other Problems” in our church.

My children are 5 & 7. To see them pious in prayer is beautiful. To see them jumping around in church is obnoxious.
If my five year old can sit still for a Holy Thursday vigil, the First Communicants can do it. It all comes down to what we expect of them.

 

[kaymart]

netmil(name removed by moderator):

LOL!
Motion machines are perfect for the playground. NOT for the mass.
Kids will only be what one expects them to be.
If you expect that they can’t hold still, they won’t.

We had almost 75 kids filling eight rows of our church. We expected them to act correctly. They did. Three teachers and four parents helped those who got antsy during the nearly TWO hour mass.

Let’s not lower the bar and maybe we won’t have “so many other Problems” in our church.

My children are 5 & 7. To see them pious in prayer is beautiful. To see them jumping around in church is obnoxious.
If my five year old can sit still for a Holy Thursday vigil, the First Communicants can do it. It all comes down to what we expect of them.

I did not say Jumping or even dancing around, I said swing arms, (this was slight) rocking or swaying to music, they kept their little legs in place, And they all act accordingly.

 

[kaymart]

One other point my son, during his entire Commuion chanted, swayed and grunted was he rude? No, he is mentally reatrded and autistic. But it was the same So-called “Pious people” of my Parish who tried to get a petition to not allow him to disrupt their childrens Holy day. So it turned out better for us anyway our wonderful Pastor had a private Mass just for him and we were able to invite anyone who wish to attend. And get this, I was a CCD teacher at that time teaching their children. My son now 17, recieves every week or more. I lot of these same kids I see “Hanging out” drinking the night before and later attend and recieve with closed minded, Pious parents.

 

[netmilsmom]

kaymart:

One other point my son, during his entire Commuion chanted, swayed and grunted was he rude? No, he is mentally reatrded and autistic. But it was the same So-called “Pious people” of my Parish who tried to get a petition to not allow him to disrupt their childrens Holy day. So it turned out better for us anyway our wonderful Pastor had a private Mass just for him and we were able to invite anyone who wish to attend. And get this, I was a CCD teacher at that time teaching their children. My son now 17, recieves every week or more. I lot of these same kids I see “Hanging out” drinking the night before and later attend and recieve with closed minded, Pious parents.

My friend, this is exactly my point.
It had nothing to do with the Parents being pious, it had to do with the parents making First Communion a focus on the children and not a focus on the children receiving the Eucharist.

Perhaps if those parents focused on the true meaning of the day, instead of the party, the pretty white dresses, the suits and how wonderful Johnny or Suzie looked they would have realized it’s not about them.
It’s about the Body of Christ. For every child.

I don’t know what kind of psudo-pious people you have at your parish, but the truly pious people at my parish would be in tears to see your son at our ceremony.
Actually, special people like your son are always at our Masses. And each is just another soul there. Except for one of the Priests going to them so they don’t have to try to walk or roll to the front for communion, no one treats them any different.
Maybe the people who think they are pious in your parish, need to visit mine.

 

[kaymart]

netmil(name removed by moderator):

My friend, this is exactly my point.
It had nothing to do with the Parents being pious, it had to do with the parents making First Communion a focus on the children and not a focus on the children receiving the Eucharist.

Perhaps if those parents focused on the true meaning of the day, instead of the party, the pretty white dresses, the suits and how wonderful Johnny or Suzie looked they would have realized it’s not about them.
It’s about the Body of Christ. For every child.

I don’t know what kind of psudo-pious people you have at your parish, but the truly pious people at my parish would be in tears to see your son at our ceremony.
Actually, special people like your son are always at our Masses. And each is just another soul there. Except for one of the Priests going to them so they don’t have to try to walk or roll to the front for communion, no one treats them any different.
Maybe the people who think they are pious in your parish, need to visit mine.

Thank You for taking the time to resond, I do see your point, it is about the Holy Euchrist. These people are what you called them “Psudo-pious” they are the type that show the world they have Rosaries, spout out Bible phares and never miss a Mass, yet will curse out someone in the grocery store on Monday, or petition to deny a innocent child of God Holy Commuion because he “acts” werid. BTW I never believe in these Parties, after a Baptism party we had that was a total disaster and mostly no cared one bit about the Child who was Baptized or the meaning of the day. Just Coffee and Cake after the Mass at my home.

 

[netmilsmom]

kaymart:

Thank You for taking the time to resond, I do see your point, it is about the Holy Euchrist. These people are what you called them “Psudo-pious” they are the type that show the world they have Rosaries, spout out Bible phares and never miss a Mass, yet will curse out someone in the grocery store on Monday, or petition to deny a innocent child of God Holy Commuion because he “acts” werid. BTW I never believe in these Parties, after a Baptism party we had that was a total disaster and mostly no cared one bit about the Child who was Baptized or the meaning of the day. Just Coffee and Cake after the Mass at my home.

Ahhhhhh!
But you my dear Lady and the other families who have the Blessed Special people in your lives, understand what it is all about.
Your son probably has more of an understanding than most of them. Although he has his special way of doing things, he probably knows Our Lord in a way that those people never will.

Bless you and your son. God put people like him here for a reason.
Pity some people are too into themselves to see it.

If you’re ever in MI, come to my church. I think both of you would feel at home there.

 

[Nekic]

netmil(name removed by moderator):

Perhaps after or before mass would be fine, but not during. And at least they weren’t around the Altar for the Consecration.

Umm, yes, they were.
I really did not like those masses. Not my cup of tea. I sang in the choir for two of them, and i was forced to stand during the concecration for one of them.
Not happy Jan.

…

Kaymart, i was quite disgusted to hear that your son was refused the right to recieve communion with the other communicants.
Quite horrifying.

 

[cardenio]

Nekić:

Umm, yes, they were.
I really did not like those masses. Not my cup of tea. I sang in the choir for two of them, and i was forced to stand during the concecration for one of them.
Not happy Jan.

Ah, you would hate being in choir at my school.

 

[netmilsmom]

Nekić:

Umm, yes, they were.
I really did not like those masses. Not my cup of tea. I sang in the choir for two of them, and i was forced to stand during the concecration for one of them.
Not happy Jan.
.

Oh My!!!

(Go Swans!)

 

[kaymart]

Dear Nekic…

Kaymart, i was quite disgusted to hear that your son was refused the right to recieve communion with the other communicants.
Quite horrifying. Thank you for your reply. There are so many times I felt like packing up and leaving the Catholic Church in the past because of how some of people act so superior and mean, but then a person like yourself comes along and I feel God is with me. I am not alone.

 

[Nekic]

kaymart:

Thank you for your reply. There are so many times I felt like packing up and leaving the Catholic Church in the past because of how some of people act so superior and mean, but then a person like yourself comes along and I feel God is with me. I am not alone.

You are most welcome.
You get those kinds of people every now and then. At times, i look at myself and think “Geez, i’m a pompous p*!%k.” Luckily i’m not like that all the time.
I think it might just be the parish that you are in. If there is one nearby, you might be well advised to visit that one.

 

[Nekic]

Also, to everyone out there, is it an abuse for a group of people, or the whole congregation to stand around the altar at the conecration? Cause, it not only happens at every first communion mass, but at the healing masses as well.

What say you (pl.)?