Is this Morally Wrong?

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Part of being a christian is to be charitable to those who have not come to the same level of understanding that we have. I hope the original poster was attempting to be more charitable than what in normal in there culture. Just because it is not up to American levels of charity, is not reason in itself to attack someone. We must also consider that if the wife is this demanding with the maid situation, the problem may extend to other areas.
I’m getting my point across clearly so there is no doubt that I view this any less than intolerable. I’m not trying to be buddies. Sounding charitable would require the presence of the 2 of us… If in person I would definitely tisk to make myself very clear as to how I view this illicit behavior. A human rights violation is a matter of justice. I guess we need not pray in front of abortion clinics either. I guess we should tell the ladies they are killing their child. We have to be charitable you know so lets not be clear. **

Charity requires truth. ** Also when writing compared to speaking in person I feel compelled to emphasize my point to get a simple point across- that it’s not okay to treat people like slaves. Or maybe you’re one of those people that tries to excuse everyone because " that’s all they know." That excuse only goes so far. It’s obvious to me that this man knows something isn’t right and is seeking help to show his wife she is wrong for doing such a thing. I take it that my parish priest was not being charitable to me when I said things that were out of bounds and he admonished me not realizing just how embarrassing it was because it was in front of several other people. I see a double standard and a bit of self-righteousness coming across from your comments. Such over zealous perspectives have a place if this were something that wasn’t so important. However we’re talking about someone who may be guilty of human rights violations by allowing this young lady to be treated so despicably. That’s my opinion or assessment whether others believe the same or not.

Catholicism is universal and a Catholic in one country will basically learn the same in another. I’m also defending the young lady. Had you taken the stance to defend the young lady you might understand my gut reaction to this problem since I have seen many injustices done to individuals in the USA. We call them immigrants. I lost an inheritance defending a culture of people being attacked by my own mother. I stood my ground.
 
Ok, allow me to clarify more.
  1. The agreement from the beginning is $400 with room and meal provided (never tell the maid that we will give her the meal allowance). The meal allowance was given (instead of meal provided) because my wife doesn’t have much time during the day (she works) plus we did want to let the maid eat better (that’s the point of giving her the meal allowance more than what is only enough).
  2. The food that is provided now for the maid is better than what she had when she bought it from her own meal allowance. Now, my wife often provides her with fruit which she never bought one when the meal allowance was provided. Plus the quantity given now is more than when the maid bought the food from the meal allowance.
  3. Another reason is: when the meal allowance was provided, the maid did NOT eat enough, because she wanted to save the meal allowance for something else. Then, the maid went hungry and ate the food that was supposed to be provided to our kids.
With those reasons and if my wife change her mind, from giving the meal allowance into providing food to the maid. Is she morally wrong because she does NOT give the difference to the maid?
 
Ok, allow me to clarify more.
  1. The agreement from the beginning is $400 with room and meals are provided (never tell the maid that we will give her the meal allowances). The meals allowance were given (instead of meals are provided) because my wife doesn’t have much time during the day (she works) plus we did want to let the maid eat better (that’s the point of giving her the meal allowances more than what is only enough).
  2. The food that is provided now for the maid is better than what she had when she bought it from her own meal allowances. Now, my wife often provides her with fruit which she never bought one when the meal allowances was provided. Plus the quantity given now often is more than when the maid bought the food from the meal allowances.
  3. Another reason is: when the meal allowances was provided, the maid did NOT eat enough, because she wanted to save the meal allowances for something else. Then, the maid went hungry and ate the food that was supposed to be provided to our kids. My wife doesn’t like this at all.
Then, if my wife change her mind, from giving the meal allowances into providing food to the maid. Is she morally wrong because she does NOT give the difference to the maid? Is she required to give the difference to the maid? My wife claims that she needs time to do the groceries shopping for the maid so that she thinks that it’s fair that she keeps the difference. Besides, there is never an agreement from the beginning that the meal allowances will be given. The agreement is meals will be provided.
 
Ok, allow me to clarify more.
  1. The agreement from the beginning is $400 with room and meals are provided (never tell the maid that we will give her the meal allowances). The meals allowance were given (instead of meals are provided) because my wife doesn’t have much time during the day (she works) plus we did want to let the maid eat better (that’s the point of giving her the meal allowances more than what is only enough).
  2. The food that is provided now for the maid is better than what she had when she bought it from her own meal allowances. Now, my wife often provides her with fruit which she never bought one when the meal allowances was provided. Plus the quantity given now often is more than when the maid bought the food from the meal allowances.
  3. Another reason is: when the meal allowances was provided, the maid did NOT eat enough, because she wanted to save the meal allowances for something else. Then, the maid went hungry and ate the food that was supposed to be provided to our kids. My wife doesn’t like this at all.
Then, if my wife change her mind, from giving the meal allowances into providing food to the maid. Is she morally wrong because she does NOT give the difference to the maid? Is she required to give the difference to the maid? My wife claims that she needs time to do the groceries shopping for the maid so that she thinks that it’s fair that she keeps the difference. Besides, there is never an agreement from the beginning that the meal allowances will be given. The agreement is meals will be provided.
Think of it this way if your wife starts clipping coupons or starts shopping at a grocery store that has better deals and saves money would you consider it immoral? As long as the quality is the same it should be OK. One consideration is are you buying groceries that are tollerable to your maid? Are you getting here the same quality of food that you are getting for you family? Are you providing food that she can eat with her religion?
 
Catholicism is universal and a Catholic in one country will basically learn the same in another. I’m also defending the young lady. Had you taken the stance to defend the young lady you might understand my gut reaction to this problem since I have seen many injustices done to individuals in the USA. We call them immigrants. I lost an inheritance defending a culture of people being attacked by my own mother. I stood my ground.
I look at it this way. Lets say I buy a company and see that the current wages are lower than what I think is right. It woudl be perfectly reasonable to increase the wages in small increments while I continue to investigate what is fair and sustainable. Even though the concept of a just wage is consistent the calculation of such a wage is very ambiguous. Personally, I have lived on a lot less than 400 per month with room and board and as an employee have considered the wages more than fair.
 
This poor woman likely needs the money to feed her family - you are well off, give her a raise.
 
People have laid out the moral considerations pretty well, so let’s look at a different angle. A little thing they taught me once in a negotiations course was value building vs value claiming. They didn’t need much morality to arrive at the idea that some situations aren’t win-lose, but in some situations it’s possible that someone will benefit a lot from something that doesn’t cost us that much to give. The last part sounds wrong, but if we peel the capitalist thing away, sometimes we can use creativity to come up with a solution that doesn’t consume too many resources - or too many resources we’re short of. If you can get better deals on food than the maid can, that’s great. If you can pick the food more wisely than she can, that’s great. And so on. You can also have her eat with you, which will both save money (it’s nearly always cheaper to cook for more people than for less) and give her a greater sense of belonging. You can rationalise her tasks so that say, you aren’t calling her downstairs so she would hand you the TV remote while she’s taking a nap or otherwise resting (not saying you’d do that)… Or she doesn’t have to go somewhere again because you forgot to tell her everything the first time (again, not saying).

You might want to look into the reasons why she spent money on things other than food and then ate the food that was meant for your children. It’s possible that she had a family to feed and it’s possible that she bought things she didn’t really need because she thought she could eat food that wasn’t meant for her. In the first case, you may want to give her a rise if you can afford it. In the second case, perhaps an educational conversation would be in order (it’s not a 20 year old from a develop world and half way through Bachelor’s degree).

As far as the choice of food goes, I suppose you, or strictly speaking your wife, was acting in the maid’s interest and wanting good for her (you mentioned healthy food). That’s good, but if, say, you’re American or European and she’s local, she can have a different metabolism and different needs of particular food ingredients - plus, sometimes there may be a good reason behind traditional local choices of food, while what we think about this or that kind of food being healthy or healthier than something else isn’t always true. Plus, I’d try to avoid expecting her to conform to my ideas of how one should live (e.g. is it because it’s good for her or is it because I want her to be the way I want her to be?).

You aren’t morally wrong in providing her good and sufficient food if the agreement was food but you had been providing money for food instead (regardless - it can be seen as a pay cut). But you might as well explain to her why it’s important to eat healthy and that you care about her (which you do). At the same time, the maid isn’t morally wrong in using electricity (and frankly, she should be allowed to - why bother having her eat fruit if she can’t have a warm meal?). Also, why buy separate food for her, well, as long as you don’t eat European while she eats local? You could probably save money having her eat with you. Probably could take her shopping with you and explain a couple of things while at it, as in being a good example of how to spend money judiciously. And she needs a day off. It’s natural law that there needs to be a day set aside for rest. It doesn’t have to be a Sunday for a non-Catholic, it can be a different day. Still, she shouldn’t really be expected to work hard and run around on errands while (and if) you’re resting and celebrating. You can work out some solution there, but you can’t have her work without a day off a week. And make sure she can practice her religion, that is pray when needed to, go to the mosque when needed to, have a day off when needed to and so on. The way I see it, not havy any day off (well, obviously, some things need to be done on Sunday, but that’s not e.g. a complete vacuuming of the house plus cleaning the floors plus mowing the lawn etc.) is a much bigger issue than the $2 on electricity and possibly bigger than taking the food that wasn’t meant for her (as long as your children didn’t go hungry as a result).

One final thought, if she really has some family to feed (which is possible, but certainly not sure), maybe it would be possible to find a job for those who can work (moving packs around for cents is still better than looking for cans in trash to sell for cents)? Or, if she’s already sharing the pay with maybe she could share the work too, e.g. with a sister? It’s pretty much the puzzle work at this stage: trying to find a creative way to make things better for everyone. You could allow her to have some (name removed by moderator)ut or reward her to some extent (financiall or otherwise) if she shows she can spend reasonably (presuming you don’t know that she spent the money on trivial things) or perhaps you could give her some more money if she has a difficult family situation. 😉 Maybe there are more things you could do for her, say, giving her access to something she doesn’t have but doesn’t need to own either, teaching her how to do some things better… anything that’s more available than money itself.
 
and the basis for those conclusions?
Most people I know work in order to feed their families. Maybe this woman is wealthy and works as a maid because she loves being a maid, but, that is very unlikely.

The poster is well off, he and his wife both work and they can AFFORD a maid.
 
In case one, I would say maybe. You told the employee about the problem, but could you have offered her suggestions for improvement, or some additional training? Carelessness can be difficult to overcome, but speed can often be improved with some specific direction. I think in this case, it is about treating the person as we should treat all human beings - you must WANT her to succeed. And if you really want that, you won’t let a person sink or swim, but perhaps provide help in identifying problem areas or improvement strategies.

The second - if you agreed to a meal allowance, the money belongs to her. It is not the same as agreeing to provide meals or groceries. It is a stipend.

I am boggled that you think your household bills should not go up with another adult living in the house. Did you expect her to have a sandwich for supper each night? Do you not use the stove for your food most days? Would you also expect that a live-in employee shouldn’t shower so hot water usage wouldn’t go up. Honestly, I think if you have a live in employee, you have an obligation to make her feel at home to some extent. So not only can she shower, she should be able to take a bit of time and enjoy it without feeling like you are watching the electricity meter the whole time.

Edit - having read a bit further. It sounds to me that you need to make you are paying this girl a reasonable amount. People do not go without food to pay for other things unless money is very tight. Is she getting enough to pay for her needs. What about enough to save something for an emergency or to do something more with her life at some point?

And the hours you are asking of her are crazy. When does she visit her family, or participate in her religion? Having irreglar time to rest in the day is fine (though I wonder, with two young kids if that really happens) but she should also have time when she can be away from the house,and be able to count on that time.

I am not sure why you “need” her around on each day, or until ten every night.
 
Another thing, incidentally - it’s not such a horrible thing to have a maid, really, seeing that some of us were a bit shocked. It’s a good thing to be humble enough to do your chores on your own, but it’s also a good thing to give someone a job.

In fact, if you’re a skilled worker and earn enough to pay someone else to do the work that doesn’t require your skills is probably a better idea. You don’t have doctors working at the reception desk and you don’t have attorneys running around the firm watering plants, fixing xero machines and moving the desks. If you can work 8 hours + 4 hours of chores home, you can instead work 12 hours for your higher rate and give someone - especially someone otherwise jobless - the opportunity to earn some money by doing those chores for you (you can pay better than normal if you want to). Or you can still do the 8 but spend the additional time with children, with friends, resting or improving your skills, whatever. I’m exaggerating, but people shouldn’t be jobless because we want to be humble. 😉 Of course, one’s got to respect those who do servile work and to treat them well, preferably setting a good example in the process and possibly offering some education (I’m talking about teaching a youngster a skill or letting him use the library or something, not paying for college). Same as it’s not the best idea for a college-educated specialist do spend 3 hours doing a maintenance job that a professional will handle in 0.5 hours and with better results (it’s kinda like a lawyer billing the time he spent at the post office where he could’ve sent someone who bills less or doesn’t bill at all, except we’re both the client and the shop in this instance).
 
Most people I know work in order to feed their families. Maybe this woman is wealthy and works as a maid because she loves being a maid, but, that is very unlikely.

The poster is well off, he and his wife both work and they can AFFORD a maid.
If she is a 24 hour live-in maid then where is her family? Guess what, single people also need to work.

Also having a maid is not proof of excess wealth. Although it does show a willingness to share what little wealth someone does have.Have you considered that providing a job to this woman may have excessively strained the family?
 
If she is a 24 hour live-in maid then where is her family? Guess what, single people also need to work.

Also having a maid is not proof of excess wealth. Although it does show a willingness to share what little wealth someone does have.Have you considered that providing a job to this woman may have excessively strained the family?
I think people were probably thinking of her extended family. In many places, a 20 year old daughter would be expected to send a good part of her wage to her parents and siblings.

However, it is not the only possibility. Women with husbands and children have been known to come work in the West, alone, to send cash home.

It might be easier to think that financial strain was the main issue with the employers if the maid was being treated kindly in other ways. Providing a job is not a license to treat someone badly.
 
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