Is this murder?

[keri6789]

This is something that has been bothering me…Acutally its a couple things…

Lets say a cop is chasing someone. This “bad guy” turns around and points a gun at the cop. The cop shoots the bad guy & he dies. Did the cop just commit murder?? Is this a reason to go to confession? Did he break a comandment??

Someone breaks into your house in the middle of the night. You are in fear for your life. You know you have to defend yourself. You are protecting yourself and the intruder is killed. Is this considered murder? Was a comandment broken?

You are in a car accident and someone is killed. They are killed because you turned when you weren’t suppose to. This is a tragic accident. Is this considered murder?? Did you break a commandement??

Someone in your family is hurt and is on lift support. You are told that there is no hope that the family member will ever wake up. You say to take famliy member off life support. Did you assist in killing someone??

A woman finds out she is pregnant. She suddenly becomes ill and her doctor says that she will die if she carries this baby. Her health is in danger. She either has to have the baby aborted or she will die. I know the Church is against abortion. Is she sinning by aborting the baby?

I know the commandment says not to commit murder. Are the above considered murder in the eyes of God and the Church. Do you have to go to confession and confess what has happened?? i know these are odd situations…

 

[jrabs]

This is something that has been bothering me…Acutally its a couple things…

Lets say a cop is chasing someone. This “bad guy” turns around and points a gun at the cop. The cop shoots the bad guy & he dies. Did the cop just commit murder?? Is this a reason to go to confession? Did he break a commandment??

Nope. Self Defense.

Someone breaks into your house in the middle of the night. You are in fear for your life. You know you have to defend yourself. You are protecting yourself and the intruder is killed. Is this considered murder? Was a commandment broken?
Nope - again self defense

You are in a car accident and someone is killed. They are killed because you turned when you weren’t suppose to. This is a tragic accident. Is this considered murder?? Did you break a commandment??

Were you under the influence of a drug or alcohol?
A simple wrong turn accident is not murder.

Someone in your family is hurt and is on lift support. You are told that there is no hope that the family member will ever wake up. You say to take family member off life support. Did you assist in killing someone??

Taking someone off life support mechanisms (breathing) are not murder however we are required to provide people with proper nutrition and hydration. When we take that away, that is murder.

A woman finds out she is pregnant. She suddenly becomes ill and her doctor says that she will die if she carries this baby. Her health is in danger. She either has to have the baby aborted or she will die. I know the Church is against abortion. Is she sinning by aborting the baby?
** Yes, abortion is always murder.**

I know the commandment says not to commit murder. Are the above considered murder in the eyes of God and the Church. Do you have to go to confession and confess what has happened?? i know these are odd situations…

Who is to know what God will decide. He is a merciful God and knows our intentions.
Confession is always a great way to ease your mind when in doubt. It can never ever hurt to confess anything.

 

[keri6789]

So…If the doctor is saying you will be dead in a matter of hours if this baby stays in is that murder? I think having an abortion because of “I made a mistake one night” is very very wrong. I don’t think babies are in any way a mistake…Should she just tell her husband good bye and prepare to die??

 

[Ray_Scheel]

So…If the doctor is saying you will be dead in a matter of hours if this baby stays in is that murder? I think having an abortion because of “I made a mistake one night” is very very wrong. I don’t think babies are in any way a mistake…Should she just tell her husband good bye and prepare to die??

Find a complication of pregnancy that requires intentionally and deliberately killing the child to save the mothers life instead of gambling with delivering it early or the side effects of medication given to the mom to treat her and we can continue this conversation. The problem with your question is that no one can think of a medical complication that fits those conditions…

 

[jrabs]

So…If the doctor is saying you will be dead in a matter of hours if this baby stays in is that murder? I think having an abortion because of “I made a mistake one night” is very very wrong. I don’t think babies are in any way a mistake…Should she just tell her husband good bye and prepare to die??

Yep. She should. God can create a miracle if that is His will. And He has and will continue.

 

[Verisimilitude]

This is something that has been bothering me…Acutally its a couple things…

I’ll offer my views.

Lets say a cop is chasing someone. This “bad guy” turns around and points a gun at the cop. The cop shoots the bad guy & he dies. Did the cop just commit murder?? Is this a reason to go to confession? Did he break a comandment??

No. He was doing his duty to protect and serve.

Someone breaks into your house in the middle of the night. You are in fear for your life. You know you have to defend yourself. You are protecting yourself and the intruder is killed. Is this considered murder? Was a comandment broken?

There are many circumstances to be considered but in short, no.

You are in a car accident and someone is killed. They are killed because you turned when you weren’t suppose to. This is a tragic accident. Is this considered murder?? Did you break a commandement??

Murder, no, but not paying attention makes you liable for the taking of that life.

Someone in your family is hurt and is on lift support. You are told that there is no hope that the family member will ever wake up. You say to take famliy member off life support. Did you assist in killing someone??

Tricky. Plan ahead. DNR (Do not resesitate (sp?)) I have no desire to be put on life support so I would have no need to be taken off it.

A woman finds out she is pregnant. She suddenly becomes ill and her doctor says that she will die if she carries this baby. Her health is in danger. She either has to have the baby aborted or she will die. I know the Church is against abortion. Is she sinning by aborting the baby?

Life has many risks. The doctor could be wrong, but should not give up trying to save both. Life is worth the risk for both. I do not think it is for us to decide like that.

I know the commandment says not to commit murder. Are the above considered murder in the eyes of God and the Church. Do you have to go to confession and confess what has happened?? i know these are odd situations…

Not all of the above are considered murder because murder is based upon intent. Where the intent is to take an innocent life, that is murder. Defending oneself and others resulting in the death of another is tragic, but not murder. Carelessness causing the death of another may be a sin, but not murder. Keep in mind, death is a part of life and but voluntarily choose to end it for another, I think is considered murder.

 

[keri6789]

Find a complication of pregnancy that requires intentionally and deliberately killing the child to save the mothers life instead of gambling with delivering it early or the side effects of medication given to the mom to treat her and we can continue this conversation. The problem with your question is that no one can think of a medical complication that fits those conditions…

Thanks for saying what you said the way you said it! I was having a discusion with someone about the abortion issue. She thought that if the doctor said its the only way then to do it. I said that I would rather die then kill my baby. If there was only a tiny chance that my child would live, I would chose their life over my own in a second. I wasn’t really sure how to get all my thoughts together and have them make sense…how you worded it is exactly what I wanted to say I just couldn’t get my words to work with me!!

 

[Delphinus85]

With the abortion thing, there is an instance where I think it might be allowed, and that is the case of an ectopic pregnancy. That means the child has implanted in the fallopian tubes, and if the child grows there, within a few months it will be so big it will rupture the tube, killing the mother, and the baby is still so premature it cannot survive. There is a 0 percent chance of survival for both the child and the mother in this case, unless the child is removed. It breaks my heart, but this has happened to people before.

 

[drafdog]

Re the pregnant woman scenario: A doctor (OB/GYN) was asked about this over thirty years ago and she replied that there was no known medical condition that met the parameters. Everything that you could come up with would either not require the abortion of the baby for the successful treatment of the mother, or the abortion would do nothing to increase the woman’s chance of survival.
This issue has been a non-starter for ages. Just drop it.

Matthew

 

[Delphinus85]

a link:

kidshealth.org/parent/pregnancy_newborn/pregnancy/ectopic.html

 

[Ray_Scheel]

Just to clarify, the full range of treatment options used secularly for an ectopic pregnancy are not available for Catholics. The sole acceptable means remains the surgical removal of the affected/damaged portion of the tube with the baby still inside. Though it perishes nearly instantly (if its still even alive at the point the ectopic pregnancy is discovered), its death is not a direct intent but rather a side effect of removing the damaged tissue to which it was attached. There is hope that one day technology will advance to the point that it could be transferred and re-implanted in the uterus, but that remains a distant hope.

keri6789: Though you and your friend will no doubt hear of instances of a doctor saying an abortion was “required”, those cases always boil down to either a fear that the medication would damage the child in a way that would expose them legally or that they were not confident of its viability if delivered early.

 

[dylanschrader]

With the abortion thing, there is an instance where I think it might be allowed, and that is the case of an ectopic pregnancy. That means the child has implanted in the fallopian tubes, and if the child grows there, within a few months it will be so big it will rupture the tube, killing the mother, and the baby is still so premature it cannot survive. There is a 0 percent chance of survival for both the child and the mother in this case, unless the child is removed. It breaks my heart, but this has happened to people before.

The moral principal of double effect in some cases would allow the foreseen but unintended death of the child but never a direct abortion.

From Ethical and Religious Directives for Catholic Health Care Services:

1. Operations, treatments, and medications that have as their direct purpose the cure of a proportionately serious pathological condition of a pregnant woman are permitted when they cannot be safely postponed until the unborn child is viable, even if they will result in the death of the unborn child.

1. In case of extrauterine pregnancy, no intervention is morally licit which constitutes a direct abortion.