Is this on track?

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I wrote out this bit of theology and I wonder what people think of it. Am I on track?

I think the Bishop is the Shepherd of all baptized Christians in his diocese, whether Roman Catholic or not. His ministry extends to all the baptized. In a way, the only valid Eucharist in the diocese is that of the Bishop. When he breaks bread and pours the wine, he is doing so for all the churches in his diocese. His priests in other Roman churches are simply his servants distributing the Bishop’s Eucharist. Protestant ministers are in some way extraordinary lay Eucharistic ministers for the Bishop–the bread and wine used in Protestant services in some way partakes of the Bishop’s Eucharist because the grace of the Bishop’s Eucharist is offered to all baptized Christians in his diocese. It is like the distribution of the loaves and fishes–the Bishop offers what he has, and this grace is miraculously expanded so that everyone in his diocese is filled with bread and fish, even if the leaders of the smaller groups in the grass surrounding the Bishop aren’t aware of how it is happening. Therefore, I can experience the grace of the Eucharist in, say, an Episcopal Church, even if the situation is irregular.

In the same way, the grace of the Bishop’s absolution is given to all baptized Christians who confess their sins. The grace of the Bishop’s healing is given to everyone who prays for healing. All marriages are witnessed by the Bishop in some way, and all confessions of adult faith in confirmation are heard by the Bishop. The validity of the Bishop’s ordination is shared by all Christian pastors in his diocese, however incompletely or irregular. Being Protestant or worshipping in a Protestant church doesn’t cut you off from the grace of God’s Church coming through the ministry of His Bishop. Where ordinations are irregular and incomplete, the validity of the Bishop’s ordination makes up for them and fills them. This, I think, is the full meaning of “Where the Bishop is, there is the Church.” There is an underlying unity to all the churches in every diocese, whether fully Roman or Protestant, which subsists in the ministry of the Bishop.
 
I think you’re taking a certain element, like the spirit or mere influence, too far. It’s like you’re straying too far from the concrete physical realities of our world.
 
This bears no resemblance whatsoever to Catholic or Protestant Ecclesiology. I think both sides would agree on that.
 
Why are you “writing out” theology? That’s the duty of trained theologians, and most of Catholic theology is very, very well established already.

Unless you have a very good reason for doing this, and the skills and experience to back it up, I do not see any profit to be had in this activity.
 
ProgressiveCatholic said:
I wrote out this bit of theology and I wonder what people think of it. Am I on track?

I think the Bishop is the Shepherd of all baptized Christians in his diocese, whether Roman Catholic or not. His ministry extends to all the baptized. In a way, the only valid Eucharist in the diocese is that of the Bishop. When he breaks bread and pours the wine, he is doing so for all the churches in his diocese. His priests in other Roman churches are simply his servants distributing the Bishop’s Eucharist. Protestant ministers are in some way extraordinary lay Eucharistic ministers for the Bishop–the bread and wine used in Protestant services in some way partakes of the Bishop’s Eucharist because the grace of the Bishop’s Eucharist is offered to all baptized Christians in his diocese. It is like the distribution of the loaves and fishes–the Bishop offers what he has, and this grace is miraculously expanded so that everyone in his diocese is filled with bread and fish, even if the leaders of the smaller groups in the grass surrounding the Bishop aren’t aware of how it is happening. Therefore, I can experience the grace of the Eucharist in, say, an Episcopal Church, even if the situation is irregular.

In the same way, the grace of the Bishop’s absolution is given to all baptized Christians who confess their sins. The grace of the Bishop’s healing is given to everyone who prays for healing. All marriages are witnessed by the Bishop in some way, and all confessions of adult faith in confirmation are heard by the Bishop. The validity of the Bishop’s ordination is shared by all Christian pastors in his diocese, however incompletely or irregular. Being Protestant or worshipping in a Protestant church doesn’t cut you off from the grace of God’s Church coming through the ministry of His Bishop. Where ordinations are irregular and incomplete, the validity of the Bishop’s ordination makes up for them and fills them. This, I think, is the full meaning of “Where the Bishop is, there is the Church.” There is an underlying unity to all the churches in every diocese, whether fully Roman or Protestant, which subsists in the ministry of the Bishop.
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If you are really a Catholic then you would know what you are saying contradicts Church teaching!!
Nothing progressive about it. It is simply wrong.
 
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ProgressiveCatholic said:
I think the Bishop is the Shepherd of all baptized Christians in his diocese, whether Roman Catholic or not. His ministry extends to all the baptized.
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Actually, it’s more intense than that: he is responsible for every human soul, Catholic, non-Catholic, and non-Christian, within the boundaries of his diocese.
In a way, the only valid Eucharist in the diocese is that of the Bishop.
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Not really. The Eucharist of the local Eastern Catholic diocese(s), as well as those of the local Orthodox diocese(s), are likewise valid.
When he breaks bread and pours the wine, he is doing so for all the churches in his diocese. His priests in other Roman churches are simply his servants distributing the Bishop’s Eucharist.
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In the early Church, that’s how it worked… almost. Originally, there was only the bishop’s liturgy on Sunday. As the need for priests arose, they would celebrate their own Eucharist – which was not only valid but also distinct from the bishop’s. However, to emphasize the unity of the diocese, a bit of the Eucharist from the bishop’s Mass would be taken to each diocesan church and commingled with the Eucharist there. (IIRC, it was from the bishop’s chalice, but don’t quote me on that.) However, the priests’ Eucharist was distinct – they weren’t just acting as ‘servants’ to the bishop, they were actually celebrating the Eucharist themselves.
Protestant ministers are in some way extraordinary lay Eucharistic ministers for the Bishop
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No. They are not distributing anything that has been consecrated. It’s not as if any bread and wine that any Christian minister uses is in some way made Eucharist by the presence of a Catholic bishop somewhere in the region. That’s not how the Eucharist works.
the bread and wine used in Protestant services in some way partakes of the Bishop’s Eucharist
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No… this would imply that the local non-Catholic Christians are partaking in the Eucharist without “discerning the body and the blood”! Your idea would mean that the local Catholic bishop is literally causing all the non-Catholic Christians in his diocese to fall into grave sin!
because the grace of the Bishop’s Eucharist is offered to all baptized Christians in his diocese.
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No. That’s counter to Catholic teaching.
Therefore, I can experience the grace of the Eucharist in, say, an Episcopal Church, even if the situation is irregular.
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No, that too is incorrect. The Communion of non-Catholic services does not convey the grace found in the Eucharist.
Being Protestant or worshipping in a Protestant church doesn’t cut you off from the grace of God’s Church coming through the ministry of His Bishop.
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Agreed. However, that doesn’t mean that they experience sacramental grace where there is no sacrament being confected.

I ran over the 3200-character limit saying ‘no’, ‘no’, ‘no’, but… no.

Interesting ideas, but they’re at odds with authentic Catholic teaching. 🤷‍♂️
 
Heck, Protestants would be scandalized that you implied that they distribute Catholic communion, let alone Catholics on the same issues.
 
  1. Yes, the bishop is the spiritual father to every soul in his diocese (except those under the care of another bishop).
  2. Yes, the power of confecting the Eucharist resides in the bishops. However, a bishop gives that power to priests who are ordained by that bishop, just as he gives them the power to teach and the power to absolve sins through Confession. The laying on of hands is a complete gift, which cannot be taken away. Each act of teaching, or of absolving, or of confecting the Eucharist, is the act of the priest himself, by way of this power handed down from Christ.
  3. You should know this, because you ought to have been Confirmed by the laying on of hands by a bishop, or possibly by a priest to whom the bishop gave that power. You are the bishop’s subject, not his meat puppet. Your sinful acts are your own. Your grace-filled acts are your own, through Jesus. You were given the Holy Spirit as a complete gift, not subject to takebacks or the death of the local bishop.
 
  1. Oh, heck no. “The grace of the bishop’s absolution” belongs only to those who specifically seek absolution from a bishop, at a specific time and place, for specific sins. The same thing for prests.
Once again, this sounds all nice until you think about it. People are not meat puppets and it is presumptuous to treat them as such, even if it would seem to be “for their own good.”

God is not stingy with His graces, and they do exist outside of the Sacraments. But there is a big difference between someone who chooses to humble himself, become one with the Church, and seek repentance through Confession of his specific sins, and… somebody who hates the Catholic Church, or who sees repentance as completely private, or even as unnecessary to the new Christian life.

Certainly God is pleased when people try to repent, or try to amend their lives. If they don’t know any better, He will surely look after them. But that is by Christ’s individual decision and application of graces, not by some mushy application of Sacraments they would be horrified to receive. There is no such thing as a Sacrament by force, or by mind control.

The whole greatness of all the Sacraments is that they are available individually and particularly, not just being some vague thing. They are material signs, not exclusively spiritual.
 
  1. Actually, some Episcopal priests have valid (although not legal) ordinations, through a succession from valid bishops. The succession is often by way of extremely hinky people (the Dutch “Old Catholic” bishops, for example), but it counts. This used to be a big thing in Anglican and Episcopal circles, but it seems to be dying out now.
Obviously, such priests have not been granted faculties by the local Catholic bishop, and their Mass is also unapproved. But there you go.

Beyond that, it is of course always true that Christ grants certain graces wherever two or three gather in His Name, and wherever they pray for things in His Name. He said He would. It is possible that these graces, which are very good and great, could be mistaken for the graces from a valid Eucharist.
 
I think there is a reason no Theologian of The Catholic Church has ever written " a bit of theology" like that. It is not in line with Church teaching. Except, yes, Protestants are not devoid of grace but it has nothing to do with any reason you mentioned. God is just merciful and loves us all. Protestants can have their sins forgiven because there is such thing as perfect contrition. Protestants can possibly have eternal life even though they do not have a valid Eucharist because God is not bound by The Sacraments like we are, he can give grace to whomever he wants. It has nothing to do with some kind of mystic participation in The Eucharist because there is a Catholic Bishop near by offering a valid Eucharist. You are way off friend. What is wrong with just trusting what The Doctors of The Church wrote and what The Church has written in The Catechism instead of writing your own theology? No offence but there are many Catholic Theologians out there who are more consistent with what The Church has always taught on The Eucharist and grace. Why not read them? You will not get a “Imprimater” and “Nihil Obstat” with your “Bit of Theology” God bless.
 
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A deeper and truer way to think about these topics is this way.

The Bishop is responsible for all souls in his diocese, Catholic, mere Christian, or pagan.

There are degrees of communion, the most perfect form of communion is by receiving Holy Communion in a state of grace.

Receiving Holy Communion without unity of belief and not in a state of grace (“unworthily” from Holy Scripture) does injury to the Body of Christ.

The Bishop should work tirelessly toward the goal of bringing every soul in his diocese into this ever more perfected union with the Body of Christ, His Church.

His primary means of bringing about this unity is by the Sacraments.
 
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I am not going to address anything regarding Protestant communion, because as Gorgias and others said, that is not correct, but when you refer to validity, could you be confusing validity and licity?

A priest still retains power to confect the Eucharist, even when dismissed from active ministry. However, to do it lawfully (licitly), he needs to be duly appointed by his own bishop or ordinary (could be a religious superior), and at least the implied permission of the pastor of the altar he uses (if a visitor). And a priest, previously lawfully appointed, both validly and licitly offers the Sacrifice of the Mass and performs other priestly functions during the vacancy of the episcopacy.

“The grace of the bishop’s absolution…”

I do not know, what, if anything, is correct in that paragraph. As for marriage, in the Latin Church, the bride and groom are the real ministers of the sacrament, with the cleric as witness.
 
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Actually, there are many Catholics who think Protestant communion and ordination are valid, if irregular. The best arguments for this are in the official Catholic/Lutheran document, Declaration on the Way:

“Pope Francis in his recent visit to the United States emphasized again and again the need for and importance of dialogue. This Declaration on the Way represents in concrete form an opportunity for Lutherans and Catholics to join together now in a unifying manner on a way finally to full communion,” said Bishop Denis J. Madden, auxiliary bishop of the Archdiocese of Baltimore, Catholic co-chair of the task force creating the declaration.

 
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It doesn’t matter a bit what “many Catholics” think. Many Catholics think abortoin and contraception are perfectly fine.

We have one Church, one pope.

We’re not protestants, where everyone is their own pope.
 
Yes, some “Catholics” try to put the most liberal spin on everything possible, including matters of Faith but that does not make it true if a handful of Catholics who think they know better than The Church want something different to be true instead of what is actually The Truth. They reject Apostolic succession if they hold a view that just anyone can become a ordained minister by declaring oneself a ordained minister and then validly consecrate bread and wine into The Body and Blood of Christ. Its not a orthodox view at all. If someone rejects apostolic succession I do not even know why they would want to be Catholic at all. Its all or nothing when it comes to being in communion with The Catholic Church.
 
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