Is this really grave matter? and prudential judgment

[angell1]

shopping on sundays, because it causes others to work. same with a host of other leisure activities

I know, the church has not legislated anything in any way

so why are certain priests saying it’s mortal sin? sometimes necessity may be fine, but for fun? no way. we shouldn’t be eating out, going to movies, eTC…

I’m trying to prudentially apply my judgment in this matter but I’m finding that I’m having a really hard time

is it really grave matter if my parents want to stop at the store to pick up a few things after mass? or if we do some browsing. it helps ease relations with my mom if she does something she enjoys. and even gives them incentive to go to church so I don’t have to get in to the “why can’t we read the bible at home, it’s the same thing.” arguments

from what I understand, unless the church says something is a grave sin or that we are bound by obligation, I just don’t see how it is grave matter otherwise.

ok so perhaps splurging a large amount of money on yourself is not the best way to keep sundays but I can think of a lot of scenarios where you could buy something as a charitable cause for someone else. or even a small thing for yourself.

and I really don’t understand the causing others to work argument. I know sunday rests usualy applies to servile work, I.E. hard manual labour. but does it mean no work at all?

I’ve read the catechism and also JP II’s letter but really I just don’t get it

and every priest seems to have a different opinion. it goes from mortal sin, to it’s not the best thing to do, to it’s fine and don’t worry about it

and if you choose not to work yourself on sunday, then how can you do something that requires someone else to?

I will bring it up with my spiritual director when I get one.

if I apply my judgment in this matter, what if I’m wrong? how does someone come up with it’s mortal sin, by applying their judgment and another person can apply their judgment and think it’s fine

 

[Sunbreak]

Because there is no absolute answer regarding shopping on Sunday. So you will find some priests who adhere to the letter of the law and some who advocate the spirit of the law. Some old school priests will tell you that you can’t shop on Sunday no matter what, but most priests nowadays realize that people have reasons for shopping on Sunday. If you don’t go to the store isn’t really going to make any difference in the store staying open and having employees there because they will still be open for people of other religious denominations or unchurched people to shop.

 

[porthos11]

Besides, shopping on Sundays doesn’t make people work. People shop on Sundays because shops are open on Sundays.

The onus is not on the consumers or the market to make people work on Sundays or not. The onus is on the stores. They simply need to close and then people won’t shop. End of story. You’re not “forcing” anyone to work on Sundays; their bosses are.

Now on the other hand, do you want to tell a minimum-wage earner that you would deprive them of another potential eight hours of income?

Read the Catechism. You will see that all that’s required is to abstain from servile work that would hinder the due worship of God and the necessary relaxation of mind and body. Nothing about avoiding shopping or anything like that.

 

[angell1]

Because there is no absolute answer regarding shopping on Sunday. So you will find some priests who adhere to the letter of the law and some who advocate the spirit of the law. Some old school priests will tell you that you can’t shop on Sunday no matter what, but most priests nowadays realize that people have reasons for shopping on Sunday. If you don’t go to the store isn’t really going to make any difference in the store staying open and having employees there because they will still be open for people of other religious denominations or unchurched people to shop.

well, the older code of canon law, did prohibit public selling and buying so I can understna dhwere that might come from

at least to an extent. even the old code allowed for exceptions of 'general custom" whatever that meant

but if there’s no absolute answer, then how can it possibly be grave matter?

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Angell1, do you believe I will go to hell if I stop off at McDonalds after Mass?

 

[angell1]

Besides, shopping on Sundays doesn’t make people work. People shop on Sundays because shops are open on Sundays.

The onus is not on the consumers or the market to make people work on Sundays or not. The onus is on the stores. They simply need to close and then people won’t shop. End of story. You’re not “forcing” anyone to work on Sundays; their bosses are.

Now on the other hand, do you want to tell a minimum-wage earner that you would deprive them of another potential eight hours of income?

Read the Catechism. You will see that all that’s required is to abstain from servile work that would hinder the due worship of God and the necessary relaxation of mind and body. Nothing about avoiding shopping or anything like that.

so if you’re a catholic, then you probably shouldn’t open your own shop on sunday. if I’m understanding what you’re saying.

though I can see how this may be a charitable cause, you could always man the store yourself and give your employees a break, give discounts to customers. allow the needy to come get things, etC…

 

[angell1]

Angell1, do you believe I will go to hell if I stop off at McDonalds after Mass?

no, I don’t. but I didn’t come up with this. I learned it

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

no, I don’t. but I didn’t come up with this. I learned it

Do you believe it? Why dont you logically work through this with me.
Would I be committing grave matter by buying myself and a homeless man a Big Mac on a Sunday? Why or why not?

 

[JRS_88]

Hasn’t shopping on Sunday already been discussed in numerous threads?
What new ground needs to be covered that hasn’t been in many similar threads?

 

[PhiloMed]

Do you believe it? Why dont you logically work through this with me.
Would I be committing grave matter by buying myself and a homeless man a Big Mac on a Sunday? Why or why not?

McDonalds, yes, but if you went to Burger King it’s ok because it tastes better.

I’m sure even God would think so. Who can resist those extra crunchy fries?

My personal opinion is that the Kingdom of Heaven has its own White Castle.

 

[porthos11]

so if you’re a catholic, then you probably shouldn’t open your own shop on sunday. if I’m understanding what you’re saying.

though I can see how this may be a charitable cause, you could always man the store yourself and give your employees a break, give discounts to customers. allow the needy to come get things, etC…

Many Catholic storeowners do close on Sundays and even Holydays of Obligation. Others may not have a choice (e.g. they’re in a mall with contractual obligations to stay open during mall hours).

The latter idea you said, such as giving discounts, ministering to the needy, is also a great way of honouring Sunday too.

But I hardly think, after having or at least planning your Sunday obligation into your day, a leisurely shopping trip constitutes anything sinful, much less grave matter.

 

[angell1]

Many Catholic storeowners do close on Sundays and even Holydays of Obligation. Others may not have a choice (e.g. they’re in a mall with contractual obligations to stay open during mall hours).

The latter idea you said, such as giving discounts, ministering to the needy, is also a great way of honouring Sunday too.

But I hardly think, after having or at least planning your Sunday obligation into your day, a leisurely shopping trip constitutes anything sinful, much less grave matter.

I didn’t think so either, until I heard a homily by a priest when I went to mass at the cathedral one day

 

[angell1]

Do you believe it? Why dont you logically work through this with me.
Would I be committing grave matter by buying myself and a homeless man a Big Mac on a Sunday? Why or why not?

I don’t hink so, but is the idea of conducting business in accordance with the lord’s day, in general?

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I don’t hink so, but is the idea of conducting business in accordance with the lord’s day, in general?

I’m not sure your disconnect here. Can you just answer the question? Have you read the catechism on the subject? Or are you willing to condemn millions of people?

 

[angell1]

I’m not sure your disconnect here. Can you just answer the question? Have you read the catechism on the subject? Or are you willing to condemn millions of people?

I’m not condemning anyone

yes, I have read the catechism. for some reason, I still have a hard time understanding.

but anyways, if there is no absolute statement by the church, then it can’t be expected to be mortal sin, that’s my instinct anyways

we have a moral obligation to worship God and to rest, though the latter can be negotiable depending on circumstances. and rest is different for everyone, also depends onw hat kind of job you have during the week

that’s what I get out of it anyways.

like I said, I wasn’t worrying about it until I heard it was grave sin by certain clergy

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I’m not condemning anyone

yes, I have read the catechism. for some reason, I still have a hard time understanding.

but anyways, if there is no absolute statement by the church, then it can’t be expected to be mortal sin, that’s my instinct anyways

we have a moral obligation to worship God and to rest, though the latter can be negotiable depending on circumstances. and rest is different for everyone, also depends onw hat kind of job you have during the week

that’s what I get out of it anyways.

like I said, I wasn’t worrying about it until I heard it was grave sin by certain clergy

1. Why do you give certain clergy moral authority they do not have. I had a priest once tell me birth control was ok. Does that make it not sinful for me?
2. It is quite possible given your ability to misunderstand many things on these boards that you just misunderstood the priest as well.

 

[angell1]

1. Why do you give certain clergy moral authority they do not have. I had a priest once tell me birth control was ok. Does that make it not sinful for me?
2. It is quite possible given your ability to misunderstand many thingings that are not grave matters on these boards that you just misunderstood the priest as well.

no, I didn’t misunderstand that time. he was very specific

well don’t clergy have the responsibility to guide us properly?

do we relaly have to be looking up everything a priest tells us just to make sure? there are many people who don’t have the luxury of doing that

so you can have situations where people are unduly burdened by things that are not sins. or the opposite, such as believing birth control is not sinful

 

[TravisandJill]

I am scrupulous as well, and was told by a very holy and prudent confessor shopping on Sunday was not a mortal sin. But the best thing I would suggest is to see that particular priest and ask his reasons why and if he could go over the teaching with you to clarify.