Is this stealing? (Downloading anime)

[adv1sor]

Please read this brief background and answer these two questions for me?

Thank you for your time in reading and answering this question.

I am a fan of Japanese Animation.

First off, I am not suggesting that it is ok to buy a DVD and upload it to the internet to share, nor is it ok to download such material. I am asking about fan subs.

Many of the programs I watch are shown on television only in Japan and only in Japanese.

I watch these programs on the internet where fans have added English subtitles.

Some of these shows may become available for purchase in the US with English voice dubs at a later date, most will not.

Most of the shows that eventually do become available for purchse in the US with English voice dubs have had the story changed in small ways to “Americanize” the story. Often these US DVDs will not inlclude all episodes of the series or even complete episodes having had some scenes removed, background music changed, etc.

Usually the US DVDs will not provide subs for signs, titles, other printed material shown in the show, and will not provide any cultural hints such as explaining Japanese honorifics, or other specific Japanese cultural references. (The fan subs usually do include these notes at the top of the screen during the appropriate scenes.)

In short, if I want the unedted translations subtitled and the full story with original music and all episodes, my only choice is to download or stream the fan subs.

1. Is it stealing to watch these programs on the internet?
2. Would it be stealing to watch the Japanese programs on the internet, the one’s with the fan subtitiles, if these same programs are for sale in the US?

Please don’t tell me to consult a lawyer about copyright laws. The way the laws are written now provide a valid argument for both sides and I’m sure I could find a lawyer to represent either argument.

Thank you again for your time in reading and answering this question.

 

[inocente]

That’s a doozy, but here’s my two cents.

You can simplify by asking where the potential harm may be. The copyright owners might be turning a blind eye to the copying, e.g. because it’s helping to build the U.S. market, or they may be outraged. Asking them publically (e.g. by email) probably won’t work if they feel legally bound to give a particular answer. But you could look at producer and trade association websites to see if it’s a hot topic for them, ask them privately at a convention and so on.

Bottom line: As long as you don’t know, you’re harming yourself. If you find out that they don’t like it then you are harming them and the uploaders by consuming the copies. Otherwise, no probs.

 

[adv1sor]

Ok, let me try an easier question.

1. Is it stealing to listen to music on YouTube when you know that the person who uploaded the music is not the copywright holder?
2. What if the song is a different version of the one that’s for sale?

 

[i_need_helpp]

No, because Seiyu’s are better than english voice actors i like listening to it in japanese, i’m not sure but i watch anime in japanese, & if it’s movies their uploading it with subtitles if its only from japan, they watch it & translate it if they speak japanese… i might learn japanese soon So, i might be doing that so Non-Japanese speakers can enjoy the movie ^.^

 

[Shin]

Whether it’s stealing or not, you shouldn’t be downloading it and watching it, because it is as a genre, as is most modern television, full of immorality.

The art of the majority of these shows features immodest clothing, and sexual temptation made ‘fun’.

Impure desires are mortal sins. Near occasions of this sin are too. And the habituation to the acceptance of these things as normal is bad for the soul.

Nevermind all the other trash involved.

Male or female, you should generally give up television and rarely or never watch it – for the sake of your soul.

A Talk on Television by the Dominican Teaching Sisters

 

[Sir_Knight]

Impure desires are mortal sins. Near occasions of this sin are too.

“Near occasion of sin” is NOT a sin, much less a mortal sin.

Male or female, you should generally give up television and rarely or never watch it – for the sake of your soul.

Mother Theresa of EWTN might disagree with you on this.

A Talk on Television by the Dominican Teaching Sisters

With comments like this …

• Punish them severely when their work is bad, and take measures until it changes and improves
• Send them to school, even if they have a headache or a stomach-ache.

… their creditability went out the window as far as I am concerned.

 

[Shin]

It’s called discipline.

Something the scriptures support.

If you raise children who are not disciplined, they do not know how to discipline themselves as adults.

That’s not love.

Entering into a near occasion of of mortal sin is where you nearly or always commit a mortal sin. Therefore the decision to enter into it, itself is a mortal sin.

And you can find this in confessor’s instruction manuals for priests, as well as writings of the saints.

Even EWTN can feature shows with immodest and immoral images. It’s not ‘Saint TV’. It’s a mix of good and not so good.

‘Get out of the filth of the horrible torrent of this world, the torrent of thorns that is whirling you into the abyss of eternal perdition. . . This torrent is the world, which resembles an impetuous torrent, full of garbage and evil odours, making a lot of noise but flowing swiftly passed, dragging the majority of men into the pit of perdition.’

St. Jean Eudes

 

[Sir_Knight]

Blindly punishing a child who did a poor job without understanding the reasons why and offering assistance with stumbling blocks is not “discipline” – it’s abuse. Justice must always be tempered with mercy … that is the message Christ conveys over and over again in the NT. The same with sending an ill child to school.

As far a “occasion of sin” … “Occasions of Sin are external circumstances–whether of things or persons–which either because of their special nature or because of the frailty common to humanity or peculiar to some individual, incite or entice one to sin.” (SOURCE: Catholic Dictionary, 1951)

… an occasion of sin is NOT a sin unless one actually gives into the sin and while it is best to avoid the near occasion of sin to avoid possibly falling into sin, in and of itself, it is not a sin. I refer you to the Catholic Encyclopedia (1917) – “All theologians are agreed that there is no obligation to avoid the remote occasions of sin both because this would, practically speaking, be impossible and because they do not involve serious danger of sin.”

 

[adv1sor]

Thank you for hijacking my thread

Of course anime, like all modern media, has plenty of immoral material. But it also has suitable shows.

Shows that combine great story telling, action, drama, comedy, and tragedy, with wonderful artwork.

So don’t write off an entire media because some forms are immoral. If that’s the case, what on earth are you doing on the internet?

As for my question. I felt so strongly about it that I took it up with my local priest. His answer is that, while in some cases it is wrong to upload some copyrighted material, it is not stealing to view this same material in a public forum such as youtube.

It is wrong to make illegal copies of anime, but not to stream anime from public sites. So says the priest at my local church.

 

[Reepicheep]

Ok, let me try an easier question.

1. Is it stealing to listen to music on YouTube when you know that the person who uploaded the music is not the copywright holder?
2. What if the song is a different version of the one that’s for sale?

My opinion: Youtube guards against copyright violations, and will remove any clip that it finds to be in violation. So I think you’re safe in treating what you see on Youtube as not in violation.
Copyright law is, as I hear, very complex, and even the experts can be wrong. As an ordinary listener, you shouldn’t be expected to second-guess the experts.

As for your second question, I would say the same answer applies.

The usual disclaimer applies: IANAL.

 

[Sir_Knight]

Thank you for hijacking my thread

Of course anime, like all modern media, has plenty of immoral material. But it also has suitable shows.

Shows that combine great story telling, action, drama, comedy, and tragedy, with wonderful artwork.

So don’t write off an entire media because some forms are immoral. If that’s the case, what on earth are you doing on the internet?

As for my question. I felt so strongly about it that I took it up with my local priest. His answer is that, while in some cases it is wrong to upload some copyrighted material, it is not stealing to view this same material in a public forum such as youtube.

It is wrong to make illegal copies of anime, but not to stream anime from public sites. So says the priest at my local church.

Sorry about the hi-jack but this is a DISCUSSION board and you know how discussions go – they tend to evolve … one person says one thing. Then another person comments on one aspect of that and then somebody makes a comment about another aspect and so forth and so on and the discussion slowly moves to a different direction.

Getting back to your original question, I completely agree with your conclusions and the advise offered by your parish priest. If ever in doubt, formally confess it. Whatever he officially loosen on earth, WILL BE loosen in heaven.

 

[Shin]

Blindly punishing a child who did a poor job without understanding the reasons why and offering assistance with stumbling blocks is not “discipline” – it’s abuse. Justice must always be tempered with mercy … that is the message Christ conveys over and over again in the NT. The same with sending an ill child to school.

As far a “occasion of sin” … “Occasions of Sin are external circumstances–whether of things or persons–which either because of their special nature or because of the frailty common to humanity or peculiar to some individual, incite or entice one to sin.” (SOURCE: Catholic Dictionary, 1951)

… an occasion of sin is NOT a sin unless one actually gives into the sin and while it is best to avoid the near occasion of sin to avoid possibly falling into sin, in and of itself, it is not a sin. I refer you to the Catholic Encyclopedia (1917) – “All theologians are agreed that there is no obligation to avoid the remote occasions of sin both because this would, practically speaking, be impossible and because they do not involve serious danger of sin.”

You don’t understand what occasions of sin are.

Near occasions of sin we are MORALLY OBLIGED not to enter into. Remote occasions of sin we are not morally obliged not to enter into. These are two different kinds of occasions of sin.

To willfully and with full knowledge enter into a near occasion of mortal sin is the same as deciding to commit the sin directly. It is the decision to mortally sin. That is a sin itself. The decision to sin, before the sin, is a sin. That is Catholic teaching.

Avoiding near occasions of sin is one of the basic building blocks of being a good Catholic. Essential stuff! Can’t do without it!

Try reading ‘Theory and Practice of the Confessional’ an instruction manual for priests or listening to some of the sermons on occasions of sin like this one and you’ll be up to speed!

 

[trokll]

Hello there this is my two cents

I persoanally would see it as stealing

I am really into anime to and I tend to ethier buy m stuff or if I do watch online I watch on the webstie of the company who makes it.

For example funamation produces a lot of anime and then show a lot of it for free on there site. That would not be seeing because the people who own the copyright are giving it out. Also you might find it on youtube from the people who make.

I also heard that the japenese ecnomy is hurting from the fact that people are doing this. The anime and manga idustry is big there and the fact that a lot of people are viewing it illegal really hurts them.

I do understand what you mean though. Anime can be hard to find and some alomst has to be watched illegal to even find it at all. I hoped that helped man

 

[Sir_Knight]

You don’t understand what occasions of sin are.

Near occasions of sin we are MORALLY OBLIGED not to enter into. Remote occasions of sin we are not morally obliged not to enter into. These are two different kinds of occasions of sin.

To willfully and with full knowledge enter into a near occasion of mortal sin is the same as deciding to commit the sin directly. It is the decision to mortally sin. That is a sin itself. The decision to sin, before the sin, is a sin. That is Catholic teaching.

Avoiding near occasions of sin is one of the basic building blocks of being a good Catholic. Essential stuff! Can’t do without it!

Try reading ‘Theory and Practice of the Confessional’ an instruction manual for priests or listening to some of the sermons on occasions of sin like this one and you’ll be up to speed!

There is “sin” and the “near occasion of sin”. The former is a sin, while the latter is not a sin unless one actually gives in to a sin.

For instance, if staying up late on a Saturday, causes me to oversleep on Sunday and miss mass then staying up late is the near occasion of sin because it MIGHT lead to the sin of missing mass on Sunday. However, there is nothing sinful in staying up late on Saturday in and of itself. One can enter into the “near occasion of sin” without actually committing a sin because it is possible to stay up late on Saturday and still not miss on Sunday.

We should avoid the “near occasion of sin” of sin because in our weakness it may lead us into sin but it is not a sin in and of itself unless one actually commits the sin itself.

 

[Sir_Knight]

Hope this brings you up to speed …

Supporting references**:*** From [EWTN (http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/dating.htm) = By near occasion of sin we mean anything that “sets the stage” TO sin."

• From [New Advent (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11196a.htm) = External circumstances — things or persons — which can lead one to sin.
• From [About:Catholicism (Definition and Examples of an Occasion of Sin) = “Any person, place, or thing that of its nature or because of human frailty can lead one to do wrong, thereby committing sin.”
  Notice that they all define the “near occasion of sin” as something that CAN lead to sin. Just because something CAN lead to sin, doesn’t mean that it WILL lead to sin. And if something does not lead to sin, then it is not a sin. Entering into the “near occasion of sin” is not a sin unless one actually commits the sin.