Is this stealing?

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MarieVeronica

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Dear Catholic Answers Forum… Does anyone know… is it stealing… to copy photo’s from the internet… which you are 100% CERTAIN (well, maybe 90% certain :D)… are in the “public domain”?

I’m curious… because over and over again… I’ve seen copyright marks, water marks, etc… on materials which I KNOW are in the public domain. How can individual people legally claim the rights to these things, which are already out there… and how do we know the difference? How do we know for sure, that their claims are legal… and that we shouldn’t be copying the materials? When, exactly… must we ask for permission?

Example: I might see clipart on ONE site… that says “copyrighted material… e-mail webmaster for permission to use” (or something like that)… then, on another site… the exact SAME piece of clipart… where they say… “feel free to copy for personal use”. So… what’s going on here? How did the first guy decide that he has the copyright?

Any information appreciated. Thanks! 🙂
 
MarieVeronica said:
Dear Catholic Answers Forum… Does anyone know… is it stealing… to copy photo’s from the internet… which you are 100% CERTAIN (well, maybe 90% certain :D)… are in the “public domain”?

I’m curious… because over and over again… I’ve seen copyright marks, water marks, etc… on materials which I KNOW are in the public domain. How can individual people legally claim the rights to these things, which are already out there… and how do we know the difference? How do we know for sure, that their claims are legal… and that we shouldn’t be copying the materials? When, exactly… must we ask for permission?

Example: I might see clipart on ONE site… that says “copyrighted material… e-mail webmaster for permission to use” (or something like that)… then, on another site… the exact SAME piece of clipart… where they say… “feel free to copy for personal use”. So… what’s going on here? How did the first guy decide that he has the copyright?

Any information appreciated. Thanks! 🙂
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Hi MV;

I could be wrong–but I think if you take copyrighted things–place them into your own files, or paperwork, etc and sell them–that is where the offense comes in. For example, let’s say I take a smiley face that is copyrighted from a site, and put it on here in a post…is that stealing? No, I think it becomes stealing, if I start my own smiley website, and start passing off the work as my own, when really I just ‘stole’ the smileys from other websites. I mean, I see smileys in many posts, clip art (like the virgin Mary in my sig for example), etc…that people are just copying and pasting for art’s purpose, not to pass it off as their work or something like this. Hope that helps–my two cents anyways.🙂
 
MarieVeronica said:
Dear Catholic Answers Forum… Does anyone know… is it stealing… to copy photo’s from the internet… which you are 100% CERTAIN (well, maybe 90% certain :D)… are in the “public domain”?

I’m curious… because over and over again… I’ve seen copyright marks, water marks, etc… on materials which I KNOW are in the public domain. How can individual people legally claim the rights to these things, which are already out there… and how do we know the difference? How do we know for sure, that their claims are legal… and that we shouldn’t be copying the materials? When, exactly… must we ask for permission?

Example: I might see clipart on ONE site… that says “copyrighted material… e-mail webmaster for permission to use” (or something like that)… then, on another site… the exact SAME piece of clipart… where they say… “feel free to copy for personal use”. So… what’s going on here? How did the first guy decide that he has the copyright?

Any information appreciated. Thanks! 🙂
Click to expand...
If you’re 100% certain it is public domain, and it IS public domain, then the work has no copyright. That much is certain under copyright law.

Only the original author of a work has the right to claim copyright. Therefore, IF you are certain the work is in the public domain, you are free to work with it any way you please.

By the way “feel free to copy for personal use” is NOT public domain. It may be a liberal license, but not public domain. A public domain work has no restrictions whatsoever.
 
Perhaps I didn’t understand the definition of “public domain”. Sorry. I intended to convey… that often, I will see photo’s… or pieces of clip art… which are available everywhere… in other words, I’ve seen them other public places. (Ex: holy cards… clip art… books… even classical art… etc.)… and yet, on the website… the piece is apparently being “claimed” with a copyright… or a watermark.

A good example of this… is at eBay. Although I don’t recommend eBay to anyone anymore, and no longer view the site myself… I do remember photo’s… old postcards… old holy cards… clip art… etc… being sold, with the mark of copyright (which seems to be presented as a “claim” of some sort). People on eBay also seem to use watermarks, quite a bit. My understanding of a watermark, is that it is similar to a copyright mark (it is used to prevent copying). But maybe I’m mistaken.

I do often see where people seem to be granting “permission” (or the opposite, denying “permission”) to use a piece of art… which I’ve seen elsewhere. I think this is where I’m confused. How is it… that they can grant permission (implying ownership) of something which is in the public domain? 🤷 Do they have the right to do this? And how do we tell?

Basically, I guess I’m just trying to find out… what is OK to copy from the internet… and what is not OK to copy. Thanks for the responses, thus far. God bless.
 
Also be aware there are many people who will CLAIM that a particular piece of art is “public domain” or people granting “permission to use” despite the fact that they don’t have the rights to the picture (and therefore can neither grant nor forbid use by another).
 
whatevergirl said:
Hi MV;

I could be wrong–but I think if you take copyrighted things–place them into your own files, or paperwork, etc and sell them–that is where the offense comes in. For example, let’s say I take a smiley face that is copyrighted from a site, and put it on here in a post…is that stealing? No, I think it becomes stealing, if I start my own smiley website, and start passing off the work as my own, when really I just ‘stole’ the smileys from other websites. I mean, I see smileys in many posts, clip art (like the virgin Mary in my sig for example), etc…that people are just copying and pasting for art’s purpose, not to pass it off as their work or something like this. Hope that helps–my two cents anyways.🙂
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In the case of the internet, it is more complex than that I believe. Because by copying and pasting an image that has copyright, even if you don’t sell it, you are still stealing the images bandwidth.
 
Ok, so from what you guys are saying… it sounds to me like… copying pictures, clip art… etc. from the internet is simply not a good thing to do… period. Even if you find that permission is “granted”. Because there is no real way to tell if they do indeed own the rights to the image. Is that the overall consensus here?

I suppose many folks might say… Oh, well… this is really splitting hairs. But I remember a priest in parochial school once… telling my class… if you even take a paper clip that isn’t yours… it’s stealing. I took his lecture very seriously.😊
 
The best way, if you do want to use art, is to go to the artist’s website. Once you’ve tracked back to the producer of the image, it’s easy to locate some means of contact (or check their FAQ–some will give a blanket permission for certain usages) and request permission. When permission is granted–thank the artist and use (with credit); when permission isn’t granted, thank the artist and don’t use the image.

On the website I help run, I’m annoying quite a few people by being very hardline about wanting permissioned-only art on the site. However, I don’t think it would be moral to pretend I didn’t know that art is copyrighted and use it without permission and say “oh, if I’m caught, I’ll take it down and say sorry”. I’d rather do the right thing from the outset.
 
Thank you Melissa… and all. You are correct when you say to do the right thing… from the outset.

However, my problem has been confusion about what belongs to whom… on the internet. There is so much out there… in regards to clip art, photo’s… etc. And so many people granting or denying permission. And then, you see the exact, same images in books… magazines… on holy cards… on different sites. It’s difficult to tell what belongs to who… and who really has authority over it. Unless, they are ORIGINAL artwork… as stated on a website… it would be extremely time consuming to try to dig down and discover the true ownership of an image. I’m having difficulty with the well known, often seen, often recreated images that we’re all familiar with. Who owns those things that are widely used and distributed?

I guess the best plan of action is simple. If in doubt (which I usually am), DON’T copy the image.🤷
 
Ok, this site seems to clarify the question of bandwidth and image theft. Anyone who wants to read this… and offer an opinion, I would be greatly appreciative.

My understanding of it is this… that it is bandwidth (or image) theft ONLY if you are uploading the image to your WEBPAGE… or WEBSITE. Or, like… uploading a picture even for this site. But copying an image for personal use (off the internet use)… seems to be fine. Here is the link… what does everyone think? Did I understand it correctly? 🤷

foxtrotters.tripod.com/bndwdth.htm
 
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