Is this taking Traditionalism too far

[leonie]

A casual friend mentioned that her family wouldn’t be attending her husband’s family Christmas party because it is scheduled for tonight (still in Advent).

This made me so sad. Not everyone has a good understanding of the liturgical year. Plus, a Christmas celebration isn’t a liturgical celebration.

Do you think this is taking it too far?

We don’t do any of our own decorating or family celebrations until after Gaudete Sunday. But, maybe that’s not very good.

How strict is your family about keeping Advent distinct from Christmas in family celebrations? Would you go to a family party? Would you go carrolling at a Nursing home?

If you are very strict, does it affect your relationships with your extended family and friends?

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Well, maybe not.

Not knowing many of the details, is it possible that at the ‘family Christmas party’ there are going to be the usual gifts etc. and that your coworker has, maybe, young children, and either wants to keep their focus away from getting presents at all (wanting Christmas to focus on Jesus more), or wants to keep them from thinking that ‘all’ Christmas is, is presents, and that it doesn’t matter ‘what day’ you actually GET the present? It can be very confusing for young or even ‘older’ children to try to think of Christmas as a ‘church’ celebration even if they only get the presents on ONE day–so imagine it’s worse when they get presents from Aunt and Uncle on say December 21, from Grandma on December 22, from the next-door neighbor on December 23, from the cousins on December 27, etc. etc. That is why a lot of people, if gifts come ‘before’ Christmas, do not actually open them until AFTER Christmas. But if everybody in the ‘family party’ is happily opening gifts THEN, before Christmas, try to explain to your child that he or she should wait. . .especially when the relatives start scolding, “Why DON’T you let Susie/Johnny open the gift so we can WATCH” (you Scrooge you). I believe that parents are entitled to ‘choose’ how they teach their children and should not be guilted or forced into acting otherwise, against their principles, especially when it comes to religious practices.

Is it possible that rather there is a good reason for a ‘family Christmas’ to at least be celebrated, if not on Christmas itself, in the proper season–that is, the 12 days of Christmas, from Christmas to Epiphany–and that this ‘family celebration’ has been scheduled ‘early’ for reasons which your coworker may know (and you may not know) to be perhaps deliberately provocative?

Now since we don’t know all the circumstances of the “party” there may be good reason NOT to go (as noted above).

And I think we should give the original ‘casual coworker’ the benefit of the doubt and NOT assume that she is refusing to go because she is ‘taking tradition too far.’

Maybe the ‘family’ is not taking tradition–that is to say, Catholic Christian tradition regarding Christmas–far enough.

But of course ‘we’ can’t know for sure.

I do think however there there could be a very reasonable and acceptable explanation for that woman–or any of us–to ‘bow out’ of a pre-Christmas party. Or any party come to that.

God bless.

 

[Malcolm_McLean]

A casual friend mentioned that her family wouldn’t be attending her husband’s family Christmas party because it is scheduled for tonight (still in Advent).

Do you think this is taking it too far?

It can be, yes.
The habit of holding Christmas parties in Advent is so engrained that even Catholics societies will often do it. However it is not correct.

You’ve got to pick your battles. If you can get a few likeminded people you’re much more likely to be successful than if it is a lone gesture. Similarly if it is an organisation you yourself have some real influence over. Similarly if the dispute over the date of the Christmas bash is not a cipher for unrelated tensions within the family of work unit.

 

[markadm]

I think not going to things is maybe going too far, because it’s not exactly regular in our societies to have Christmas parties between Christmas and Epiphany.

I must admit I am quite strict about not putting up the decorations until late, too.

 

[water]

I did skipped 3 parties last week.

I hope my question is somehow related to this thread:
Why is the color of the candle is pink instead of purple on the third week of Advent?

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Hi water-- it is actually ‘rose’ color, and that is because the Third Sunday of Advent is given, by tradition, a more ‘joyful’ aspect as we have come more than ‘halfway’ through Advent and are ‘looking forward’ to the joy of Christmas. (Advent color purple of course denotes sorrow, penance, contrition, longing, just as we have Lenten color purple for same reason. Interestingly, the Third Sunday of LENT likewise traditionally has rose vestments, and for the same reason–more than ‘halfway through’ and looking forward, in this case to Easter.).

The Latin which I’m afraid I’ll mangle as I am on a tight schedule and can’t look up–are “Gaudete” Sunday (Advent) and “Laetare” Sunday (Lent). Both word roots reference rejoicing and anticipation.

God bless.

 

[water]

Hi water-- it is actually ‘rose’ color, and that is because the Third Sunday of Advent is given, by tradition, a more ‘joyful’ aspect as we have come more than ‘halfway’ through Advent and are ‘looking forward’ to the joy of Christmas. (Advent color purple of course denotes sorrow, penance, contrition, longing, just as we have Lenten color purple for same reason. Interestingly, the Third Sunday of LENT likewise traditionally has rose vestments, and for the same reason–more than ‘halfway through’ and looking forward, in this case to Easter.).

The Latin which I’m afraid I’ll mangle as I am on a tight schedule and can’t look up–are “Gaudete” Sunday (Advent) and “Laetare” Sunday (Lent). Both word roots reference rejoicing and anticipation.

God bless.

Thank you, Tantum ergo! That makes a lot of sense.
PS: Now, I could enjoy my little birthday celebration this week for my g/f. She is 3 days older than Jesus.

 

[Sr_Sally]

If that is the only and specific reason for not going, it is perhaps going too far. It seems like you could hold a family gathering and not call it anything at all, or say Advent party if that made people feel better.

I wonder if work or travel schedules make holding this event during Christmas season difficult. Or if this is a long-standing date, maybe it was picked as most convenient years ago and has been held on this date since, making the party itself a tradition.

 

[KathleenElsie]

If that is the only and specific reason for not going, it is perhaps going too far. It seems like you could hold a family gathering and not call it anything at all, or say Advent party if that made people feel better.

I wonder if work or travel schedules make holding this event during Christmas season difficult. Or if this is a long-standing date, maybe it was picked as most convenient years ago and has been held on this date since, making the party itself a tradition.

We decorate for Advent. We put the big stable out on the first Sunday. The baby Jesus arrives on Christmas and wise men on Epiphany. It all comes down at the Presentation of Jesus.

December 15 was my grandfathers birthday and we tend to use this day as our pre-Christmas party and decoration day. The Tree gets decorated then and the train is put up. The lights get turned on for Christmas Eve till the Presentation of Christ. So I guess we blend two traditions.

We usually have a supper at out home for family and let everyone open family presents after the 5pm service (one each person.) On Christmas Eve the boys will sing at the 5pm service and then our DD will sing at Midnight Mass (the 4 year old will stay at home with my husband and I for everyones sake ). One grandson will serve at the 9am Mass on Christmas Day and my husband and I will take him.

On Christmas morning we will have a birthday cake and presents for Jesus and we all sing happy birthday to Him. Then the children can open their other presents. This year we will be visiting the nursing home that my mother is in and that will be all the visiting done on this day of prayer.

God Bless you all. Blessed Advent.

 

[cam100]

To attend or not attend a party before Christmas is really just a personal choice. The Church does not order us either way, so no sin is involved. Those who choose to go should not criticize those who choose to make a sacrifice and stay home. Those who abstain from attending should not criticize those who attend.

Although in the liturgical year a feast is celebrated on its day and for a certain period thereafter, it is the custom in the US to celebrate a holiday before its actual date if the day is important enough. Some people may choose to refrain from any celebration before Christmas as their sacrifice and means of spritual preparation. But attending a Christmas party before Christmas is not a sin, so there is no obligation to refuse to attend.

 

[PatienceAndLove]

A casual friend mentioned that her family wouldn’t be attending her husband’s family Christmas party because it is scheduled for tonight (still in Advent).

This made me so sad. Not everyone has a good understanding of the liturgical year. Plus, a Christmas celebration isn’t a liturgical celebration.

Do you think this is taking it too far?

We don’t do any of our own decorating or family celebrations until after Gaudete Sunday. But, maybe that’s not very good.

How strict is your family about keeping Advent distinct from Christmas in family celebrations? Would you go to a family party? Would you go carrolling at a Nursing home?

If you are very strict, does it affect your relationships with your extended family and friends?

waves hi! We don’t do the Christmas tree til Christmas eve. The house stays all Advent-y til Christmas eve, and then it’s Christmas til Epiphany. However, I am not opposed to attending Christmas parties before Christmas.

 

[Malcolm_McLean]

To attend or not attend a party before Christmas is really just a personal choice. The Church does not order us either way, so no sin is involved.

It is a compromise with sin. If people were sinless and even minimally informed, there would be no Christmas parties held in Advent. They would all be over the 12 days of Christmas.

However sometimes it is better to compromise. Maybe we should make a movement against Christmas parties in Advent - it is a lot easier to oppose something together than as lone individuals.

 

[leonie]

How about Christmas carrolling during Advent? In fact, we are going today to carroll with our homeschool group at a Catholic run nursing home. It has always bothered me a little to carroll during Advent. But, no one–neither the residents or the carrollers-- seems very interested after Christmas day.

And, btw, the family in question is going to be participating.

 

[Brenda_V]

It is a compromise with sin. If people were sinless and even minimally informed, there would be no Christmas parties held in Advent. They would all be over the 12 days of Christmas.

However sometimes it is better to compromise. Maybe we should make a movement against Christmas parties in Advent - it is a lot easier to oppose something together than as lone individuals.

Is it a compromise with sin or a need to compromise with a time schedule? Many classrooms have their “Christmas Party” the last hour of class on the last day of school before Christmas Break because it is better in the long run to have this event before the break then when they get back - the children are already in “excited mode” before Christmas and are ready to settle down again after the break. For the flow of teaching it is better to do this then, just like every teacher will schedule the party for the last hour of class so she/he can get as much done with the rest of the day as possible - for some odd reason parties cause the children to become wild little animals and it is hard to get them back into being the well behaved little humans they are (note some of this statement is tongue in cheek).

I do know that for our CCD classes we had our program the last day of class but we did not have a party (neither my daughter for her first graders nor I for my sixth graders), we did give them a present of Holy Cards and candy and a homemade ornament (her) or candy cane pen (me).

In the secular part of my life I attend party/meetings for work (yes, Avon Reps. have meetings we attend) and we do a Secret Santa. My husbands work had a baking contest which I could have entered but time was short so I didn’t and they used to have a party for all the families with children, all done before Christmas because the whole plant closed down from the 24th until Jan 3rd or so.

As far as not attending a Family Christmas get together, I would have to think about that because both of our families celebrate starting Christmas Eve through Christmas Day. I don’t think it would ever occur to either family to do this otherwise. But in this case, eee, here I go speculating again, maybe the family has something going on (like a member heading off for Iraq on the 24th?) so they wanted to have their celebration with that person before he/she left? I don’t know, there are way too many variables as to why a family would do this and it would be okay.

Brenda V.

 

[leonie]

I do know that for our CCD classes we had our program the last day of class but we did not have a party (neither my daughter for her first graders nor I for my sixth graders), we did give them a present of Holy Cards and candy and a homemade ornament (her) or candy cane pen (me).

Brenda V.

I had planned to have a Gaudete Sunday party for our last class. I was going to have snacks and games. We were going to do activities based on the O Antiphons and learn all the verses for “O Come, O Come Emmanuel.”

Alas, a winter storm necessitated classes being cancelled

It just occurred to me that the mom of Traditionalist family of whom I was referring did say that her husband would have attended a party if it were on a Sunday, but because the party was scheduled on a Friday, he felt they should abstain.

 

[Brenda_V]

I had planned to have a Gaudete Sunday party for our last class. I was going to have snacks and games. We were going to do activities based on the O Antiphons and learn all the verses for “O Come, O Come Emmanuel.”

Alas, a winter storm necessitated classes being cancelled

It just occurred to me that the mom of Traditionalist family of whom I was referring did say that her husband would have attended a party if it were on a Sunday, but because the party was scheduled on a Friday, he felt they should abstain.

Well, we actually did give our presents out the week before Gaudete Sunday but that was due to the timing. We didn’t want to forget them and that gave us two weeks to make sure everyone got their presents!

It is interesting that the father of the family said “No because it was on a Friday” I wonder if he would have said "“no” if it was today, Saturday? I do get the “because it is a Sunday and those are not days of Penance” and the fact the Fridays are days of Penance year round with the Fridays in Lent even more so.

Ah, well. we are all slowly re-learning the true meaning of Advent - which for me is one of anticipation, like that last month I am pregnant before the baby comes, there are days of excitement and days of fear and trepidation (how is a 7 lb. baby going to come out of me??) and yet I did it three times with the last one being 10 lbs.!! Once I became a mom I had a much better understanding of what Advent could mean.

Yes, my tree is up and we have a few decorations around the house, all the presents are purchased and wrapped and sent if they needed to be, we are listening to Christmas music and I am making cinnamon rolls and Yulekake today (I may need to go out and get more flour).

I am relaxed enough to be somewhat enjoying the day already. We do need to finish cleaning the house as I still have Avon boxes in the entryway - I just need to get those organized and hidden away in the fourth bedroom - I am done with deliveries now until January - anyone who did not respond to me when I called them this week will just have to wait now!

Advent is almost over everyone, enjoy the last few days of anticipation and expectations of the Birth of the Messiah!

Brenda V.