Is this the call for a confused Atheist?

[guanophore]

All sins mean ALL sins, past, present and future. Would you re-crucify Christ every time you sin - because that’s what you’re trying to do.

Actually, that is not a bad description of post-baptismal sin. I would say, though, that this applies only to mortal sins, or those that quench the grace of God in us. That means that there must be knowledge of the sin, an awareness of the gravity (seriousness) and a free will choice to commit the sin. These elements basically add up to rejecting Christ in our lives.

Heb 6:3-8
4 For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt. 7 For land which has drunk the rain that often falls upon it, and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. 8 But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed; its end is to be burned.

When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us **all** our sins, having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, **nailing it to the cross**.

~Col. 2:13-14

The Apostle here is referrin gto the Levitical code of Laws, by which Christians are not bound. He does not mean that the moral law of God, found in the ten commandments, has been set aside. The manner in which we deal with our failures to keep His commandments has changed. We now have confession, and are not obligated by Levitical Laws.

 

[guanophore]

God Created Adam from dust, and Eve from a rib of Adam.
Their bodies were made by God, not evolution. Do you not believe the Bible?

Yes, I believe the Bible. The whole of creation was done out of nothing. God can create Adam and Eve out of dust using any number of methods He chooses. We were not there. What we do know is that He made humans, called them “good’ and breathed into humans the 'breath of life” and we became sentient.

evolution is not contrary to God’s creation.

Don’t you find it curious that humans have 95% identical genes with chimpanzees. Yet, look what amazing differences only 5% of the genes makes! It is astonishing.

 

[allhers]

Hi, it does sound as if God is calling you to the Catholic Church.

As you say, while living with your parents you should be aware of their sensitivities. You could discuss your wishes and intentions with them and see if they are willing for you to go to Mass or become Catholic.

Hopefully they will be sympathetic with your honest beliefs and spiritual needs.
Even if they wish you to wait, please God you will continue to pray and to study the truths of the Catholic Church.

At this stage it may not be wise to say much to non-Catholic Christians for as you already see, they may get upset and do what they can to stand in your way. If God is calling you, trust in His leading, as you already seem to do.

God bless you,
Trishie.

I will keep you in my prayers. Please let us know how things go for you.

I totally agree with Trishie’s advice here and will also keep you in my prayers. God bless you.

 

[humble_in_doubt]

Don’t you find it curious that humans have 95% identical genes with chimpanzees. Yet, look what amazing differences only 5% of the genes makes! It is astonishing.

and what the heck does that prove??? Christian logic … gotta love it

 

[guanophore]

and what the heck does that prove??? Christian logic … gotta love it

I wasn’t trying to “prove” anything, or even apply logic. I was makign an observation. Do you really mean to tell me that you don’t find that factoid amazing?

 

[humble_in_doubt]

I wasn’t trying to “prove” anything, or even apply logic. I was makign an observation. Do you really mean to tell me that you don’t find that factoid amazing?

the fact is we share common DNA with the fruit fly as well (and we’re obviously markedly different from insects). We share common DNA with rats and mice (and we’re obviously not very similar to rodents). It seems to me these factoids go more to showing the veracity of evolution rather than any creation story (as depicted by the various religions throughout history).

Christianity (and Judaism) share many stories and themes with ancient pagan myths. So what does this mean? I think it means the obvious … but I know you folks will disagree (and of course we’re all entitled to believe what we like).

As I said before my objection to religion is more logically based (and I’m not so much bent on the fact that religion has been a contributing factor in a small number of wars throughout history). I figure mankind is a competitive animal … and unless we transcend the idea of war through evolved logic we’ll always find something to quarrel over. More likely resources, power, etc.

The hope that all mankind will veer toward one world religion is fallacious at best, and a major cause of world friction at worse. My advice, if you love being Catholic, then be Catholic. If you like being protestant … the be protestant. The way I see it is the idea of sola scriptura has been abandoned by both sides a long time ago. Protestants might say their doctrines are the result of exegesis, while Catholics argue in favor of their tradition. What I say is sola scriptura would make for a horrible theocratic world, and tradition that keeps us wedded to 12th century mores is an equally bad idea. In reality the theology of both sides has evolved to meet the challenges of the secular world (science, reason, and an evolved sense of liberty). Sadly, no one really wants to admit it for some reason.

However, since the church has within itself the power to alter its doctrines (or issue a more evolved dictate regarding its dogma) then why continue the course of being so hostile towards human sexuality? I’m not saying the RCC should open its own hedonism resort (that’s obviously absurd). What I am saying is that our ideas of sexuality are governed by the mores we’re brought up with (from a psychological perspective). There is no tangible force acting within ourselves compelling to think this or that … but rather we each have a complex psychology that we don’t even completely understand yet (but trust me … we surely will in the not so distant future, because we’re curious creatures who aren’t content with leaving things a mystery).

By being more intellectually honest it seems to me the RCC could avoid many of its own internal problems (like wayward priests who are sexually repressed and wind up molesting children as a result). Sex isn’t bad, nor is it some aberration in the eyes of some invisible deity. It’s our biology pure & simple. The more open we are with regard to sex the more able we will be to deal with deviancy on real terms (and actually begin to find out why it happens). There’s no devil who compels people to molest, it’s there own biological and psychological compulsion. The sooner we admit there’s no invisible devil (who compels to do wicked things) the sooner we can find out why these psychological and biological aberrations occur (and prevent them in the future).

Imagine, mankind created a religion that is hostile toward ourselves and our own nature. Good in some ways because we had some attributes that were undesirable (like a disposition toward violence). However, again it’s always a matter of how one is raised, and our biology. Most atheists I know are the most peace loving people I’ve ever met. Much more peace loving than the average Christian. So obviously we don’t need religion to make us peaceful and intelligent.

 

[josie_L]

By being more intellectually honest it seems to me the RCC could avoid many of its own internal problems (like wayward priests who are sexually repressed and wind up molesting children as a result). Sex isn’t bad, nor is it some aberration in the eyes of some invisible deity. It’s our biology pure & simple.

From the CCC 1604:

God who created man out of love also calls him to love - the fundamental and innate vocation of every human being. For man is created in the image and likeness of God who is himself love. Since God created him man and woman, their mutual love becomes an image of the absolute and unfailing love with which God loves man. It is good, very good, in the Creator’s eyes. And this love which God blesses is intended to be fruitful and to be realized in the common work of watching over creation: "And God blessed them, and God said to them: "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it.

1605:

Holy Scripture affirms that man and woman were created for one another: “It is not good that the man should be alone.” The woman “flesh of his flesh” his equal, his nearest in all things, is given to him by God as a “helpmate”; she thus represents God from whom comes our help. "Therefore a man leaves his father and his mother and cleaves to his wife, and they become one flesh. The Lord himself shows that this signifies an unbreakable union of their two lives by recalling what the plan of the Creator had been “in the beginning”: **“So they are no longer two, but one flesh.”**I

This is probably the most beautiful thing I have ever read concerning the sacredness of sex when confined to marriage between a man and woman. It fills me with awe, that God should bestow on us such a gift "so that they are no longer two, but one flesh."

Imagine, mankind created a religion that is hostile toward ourselves and our own nature. Good in some ways because we had some attributes that were undesirable (like a disposition toward violence). However, again it’s always a matter of how one is raised, and our biology. Most atheists I know are the most peace loving people I’ve ever met. Much more peace loving than the average Christian. So obviously we don’t need religion to make us peaceful and intelligent.

Were these atheists mostly ex-christians?

 

[humble_in_doubt]

Were these atheists mostly ex-christians?

I suppose most American atheists are former Christians (though most that I’ve known were also formerly Jewish, and the majority were by and large never really religious in the first place).

With regard to human sexuality, you know monogamy is not natural to virtually any mammal in creation. While it’s considered a virtuous attribute among humans, with the divorce rate what it is (most marriages in the US end in divorce) monogamy is obviously a difficult standard to live up to for most people.

However, you might be interested to know atheists have BY FAR the lowest divorce rates (compared even to Mormons and other fanatical religious groups). In fact atheists are also the least represented group in American prisons (only a fraction of 1% of all prisoners identify themselves as atheists). The group with the largest representation is Catholics, followed closely by protestants. There’s some obvious demographic reasons for this (which I won’t get into) … but you have to ask youself, how is that these unbelievers seem to be so good at behaving themselves?

The answer is quite simple … we look to nothing outside of ourselves when we evaluate our own behavior. When we screw up we don’t think some invisible devil made us do it. When we do well we don’t attribute our success to an invisible deity. This allows us to learn from both our successes and failures and take ownership for our own behavior. We call it … common sense.

 

[josie_L]

I suppose most American atheists are former Christians (though most that I’ve known were also formerly Jewish, and the majority were by and large never really religious in the first place).

With regard to human sexuality, you know monogamy is not natural to virtually any mammal in creation. While it’s considered a virtuous attribute among humans, with the divorce rate what it is (most marriages in the US end in divorce) monogamy is obviously a difficult standard to live up to for most people.

However, you might be interested to know atheists have BY FAR the lowest divorce rates (compared even to Mormons and other fanatical religious groups). In fact atheists are also the least represented group in American prisons (only a fraction of 1% of all prisoners identify themselves as atheists). The group with the largest representation is Catholics, followed closely by protestants. There’s some obvious demographic reasons for this (which I won’t get into) … but you have to ask youself, how is that these unbelievers seem to be so good at behaving themselves?

The answer is quite simple … we look to nothing outside of ourselves when we evaluate our own behavior. When we screw up we don’t think some invisible devil made us do it. When we do well we don’t attribute our success to an invisible deity. This allows us to learn from both our successes and failures and take ownership for our own behavior. We call it … common sense.

There are a few mammals I believe that are monogamous, such as wolves, certain penguins, and swans. . . etc. Anyways, I don’t understand why you would want to compare yourself to a mammal, mammals don’t have an intellect, as such I think humans are better capable of living in monogamous relationships (without the excuse of evolutionary appetites standing in the way of monogamy). One of the problems I see with society in general, is that there is too much sex, we’re inundated and obsessed with sex (just look at what internet porn is doing to marriages). Honestly, we’ve gone from one extreme (victorian era) to another (post sexual revolution). I mean whatever happened to courtship and gallantry and all those other wonderful old fashioned values that we forsook. Sorry, but you won’t be able to convince me of the wonders inherent in our post sexual revolution Personally I see that has being the reason we have seen a spike in divorces, abortions, out of wedlock marriages (did you know that 40% of children are born out of wedlock), rampant promiscuity, higher rates of STDs (new and improved STDs), and a rise in gang violence among teenagers who don’t have a father to raise them . . . etc.

This is because we are abandoning christian morality and replacing it with the moral relativism (which you are a big fan of) of secularism. Now as to your question about why there are so many Christians as compared to Atheists in prison, well, is this 1% you refer to, compared to the Atheist population as a whole (what’s the ration), also, what if there were massive conversions within prisons that now allow inmates to identify themselves as Christians. I know a lot of Christian programs are geared towards proselytizing inmates, or bringing them back into the fold. So you telling me that so many Christians are inmates may be scewed, as such I would request of you some article I may look over to read and verify for myself. God bless.

Has to it being hard to remain monogamous as due to our evolutionary impulses, this is what I have to say:

The answer is quite simple … we look to nothing outside of ourselves when we evaluate our own behavior. When we screw up we don’t think some evolutionary impulse/mishap made us do it. When we do well we don’t attribute our success to evolution. This allows us to learn from both our successes and failures and take ownership for our own behavior. We call it … common sense. I just had to do it.

 

[always_gr8ful]

The answer is quite simple … we look to nothing outside of ourselves when we evaluate our own behavior. When we screw up we don’t think some evolutionary impulse/mishap made us do it. When we do well we don’t attribute our success to evolution. This allows us to learn from both our successes and failures and take ownership for our own behavior. We call it … common sense. I just had to do it.

 

[josie_L]

 

[PJM]

I apologize for the length of this piece, but I feel it to be extremely important.

Hello, everyone. For awhile now I have been an Atheist, a fact which is unknown to all but my closest friends. My family consists of devoted Presbyterians on my mother’s side, and that is about as far as religion in my family goes.

From the very beginning, I have always felt hopelessly dissastisfied with my current Church, and other Presbyterian Churches I’ve attended on vacation. They seemed to be a case of lots of flash but no substance, and I never could feel any connection. Their inability to reconcile evolution with faith made me want to scream, and also pulled me away.

Yet, I have always felt strangely drawn to the Catholic Church, for reasons I cannot explain, or understand. After doing much research, I have found that I agree with the Church on many issues, like abortion, which I opposed fervently even as an Atheist.

However, I am worried about my family’s reaction. I am only 15, and my only experience in Catholic Churches are Weddings and Funerals. My sunday school teachers have always been wary of me when I expressed some Catholic ideas that I didn’t realize were Catholic(The body as a temple, for example.)

Any way, I finally gave in and decided to pray to God again, this time under the guise of a Catholic framework. After much soul-searching, I have decided I want to abandon my Atheist identity and become a Catholic…I am unsure how to do this at this time in my life, as I am supposed to respect my family. However, I cannot in good conscience participate in my Church, which seems completely devoid of the sincere worshipping experience I crave.

Has anyone ever had a similar situation? Any advice?

Dear 007… your secret inenity is safe with me

I am very impressed with your thoughful and articulate post.

Not knowing you and your family personaly, I find it difficult to advise you on your family concerns. I am a great believer in TRUTH, and as you are beginning to discover for yourself, there is but a single truth for any and every specific issue.

You might speak with your parents and let them know you are dissatisfied with your personal relationship with God, and that you’d like their permission to look at other religions. Be prepared to be specific about what you find disagreement with in your current church. Do everything with chairity. Because of your age, you should humble yourself and be obedient to there wishes until you leave home.

In the mean time you can use this Forum extensively to ask questions and learn why the Catholic Church is the Oldest and Largest Christian Church in the world. There are, 007, some very good and solid reasons.

You might consider taking advanatge of the “PM” possibilities of this Forum, if you find a few people with whom you connect. Ask away!

Your doing good. God is real and he really love you!

Love and prayers,

Patrick

 

[StAnastasia]

However, you might be interested to know atheists have BY FAR the lowest divorce rates (compared even to Mormons and other fanatical religious groups). In fact atheists are also the least represented group in American prisons (only a fraction of 1% of all prisoners identify themselves as atheists). The group with the largest representation is Catholics, followed closely by protestants. There’s some obvious demographic reasons for this (which I won’t get into) … but you have to ask youself, how is that these unbelievers seem to be so good at behaving themselves?

According to The Marriage-go-round Red states have a higher divorce rate than blue states. Divorce is higher among those who reject evolution than among those who accept it.

 

[cerad]

There are a few mammals I believe that are monogamous, such as wolves, certain penguins, and swans. . . etc. Anyways, I don’t understand why you would want to compare yourself to a mammal, mammals don’t have an intellect, as such I think humans are better capable of living in monogamous relationships (without the excuse of evolutionary appetites standing in the way of monogamy).

You might be interested in knowing that neither penguins nor swans are mammals. On the other hand, humans most certainly are. Even Catholics are classified as mammals.

 

[humble_in_doubt]

According to The Marriage-go-round Red states have a higher divorce rate than blue states. Divorce is higher among those who reject evolution than among those who accept it.

Just as the less educated are more predisposed to religion. Doesn’t this all tell you something? Smart people are less likely to do dumb things (I know … no duh, seems intuitive enough right).

Why do you think the bible attempts to preempt the objection it rightly anticipates from the intellectual elite? Because they’re trying to convince stupid people they should be frightened of them (since we’ll no doubt thrust our pesky logic upon them). Not a bad tactic (but that’s all it is … just a tactic).

 

[ricmat]

According to The Marriage-go-round Red states have a higher divorce rate than blue states. Divorce is higher among those who reject evolution than among those who accept it.

If you are trying to connect these 2 facts (assuming that they are indeed true independently) with no further information, then you are engaged in bad science, and bad statistics. Ask your friends if you don’t believe me.

 

[StAnastasia]

If you are trying to connect these 2 facts (assuming that they are indeed true independently) with no further information, then you are engaged in bad science, and bad statistics. Ask your friends if you don’t believe me.

Was I trying to connect them?

 

[ricmat]

Was I trying to connect them?

How do you conclude that “Divorce is higher among those who reject evolution than among those who accept it?”

 

[PJM]

=always_gr8ful;5107189]Don’t you mean a Catholic can die in his sins and go to hell?

Because the Word of God (the Bible), which Christians believe, says that Jesus died for ALL our sins.

Friend God allows you to believe what you chose to believe.

But God is, and God must be everything Good, indeed, everything Good to Perfection.

So God must be Just and Fair.

This means that those of us who do know more, do know better, and live by the Entire Bilble, not simply snips, will be judged more severly, than than those who do not know "The Way, THE [single] TRUTH and The Light! In between these two extremes are people like you dear friend that God gives the opportunity to know His Truth, but cling to easier to abide by beliefs, than face the possibility that the RCC, the ONLY Church founded by Christ [CEO =Jesus] and in continual existance fro 2000 years. Continues to be the largest Christian Church in the World, some 400 years after Luther, because the RCC is the home for The Truth!

The bible is not for personal interpatation. But if your going to insist on this as somesort of “right” at least be fair and use the entire Word of God. Thank you.

If you were to have started a business, would you take steps to insre its continuation after you retired or died. Sure you would, so why act suprised that Jesus dis exactly that.

Pope Benedict XVI said in is first speech as Pope: “you can’t have your truth and my truth, or there would be NO TRUTH.”

And that friend is common logic and the truth!

If OSAS is biblical, please show me where it says that. How do you explian Mt. 16:19, Jn.3:5, Mt.19:16, Jn. 3:36, Tim. 3:16, Jn. 15:16, Lk.10:16, 1 Tim. 2:3, 2 Cor.13:8, 2 Tim. 4:3, Jn. 16:12, Jn.17:9-18, Jn.12:34…

Dear friend, your know not about what you speak. Let us pray!

 

[humble_in_doubt]

How do you conclude that “Divorce is higher among those who reject evolution than among those who accept it?”

you can google divorce stats and you’ll find a wealth of information on the topic. The typical religious objection is to say those polled may not truly be Christian (or whatever their particular brand of religion is). Obviously that is a preposterous methodology.

Do they poll people as they enter their church to discern whether or not they’ve ever been divorced, or have ever slept with someone outside of marriage, or whatever? Would they exclude such people from worship? Obviously not (since they’d have practically no one left).

Then to try and say these same type of people should be disqualified from a divorce survey on grounds they don’t find them to be a good enough Christian is obviously illogical (and empirically absurd).

If someone identifies themselves as a Christian … then they’re Christian for all purposes.

Atheists and agnostics have by far the lowest divorce rates in the country … usually because they’re more educated, more affluent, and marry a bit older than average.