Is this theft?

[TAS2000]

Everyone (hopefully) has had the occasion where an extra item has dropped from the vending machine. Usually I just think “Woo Hoo! 2 for the price of 1! Must be my lucky day!” However, there are apparently people at work who have figured out that one of our machines will fairly consistantly give out “extras” in certain slots if you hold the button down. One guy was bragging that his personal best was 8 items at once (7 “free” ones).

So here’s the question…does holding down the button with the full intent of trying to get an"extra" treat constitute theft?

Or do you consider it compensation for the fact that the prices are so high ($1 for a 35 cent bag of chips???) and the times when the machine eats your money and gives no snack in return?

Or is it just a neutral occurance, no theft, just one of those things?

any opinions???

 

[chrysostom15]

The best thing to do is probably to call up the vender and inform him of the problem.

 

[Wolseley]

I have been robbed by so many vending machines in my day that if I get an “extra” for the money that I put in, I say goody for me.

 

[lizaanne]

It is theft because it is deliberately taking something that you did not pay for.

If a person receives something by accident, and there is no way to pay for it (your example of a machine) then that is not theft.

Just my two cents.

Add my two cents to yours - I totally agree.

I also feel that you are beholden to telling someone that the machine is malfunctioning. There is a person out there who is not getting paid for their merchandise. That impacts a person’s livelihood.

Why is it that some people go though life thinking that everything is an opportunity to get something for nothing? I’ll never understand that.

~Liza

 

[Verbum_Caro]

Monicad and Lizanne,

Your thoughts aren’t just your “two cents”. Morality isn’t a matter of opinion but of objective truth. You both are right – given the scenario laid out as it is – it is unquestionably theft.

VC

 

[briang72]

The best thing to do is probably to call up the vender and inform him of the problem.

…and, if possible, return any “extras” you have received when the vending machine owner comes to fix the machine.

What if you owned the vending machine? What if it was your line of work, the means by which you put food on your table? One or two lost sales might not hurt, but this machine sounds like it is doing much worse to its owner. What a great opportunity for you to let him/her know that there is a problem with the machine.

 

[fix]

I have been robbed by so many vending machines in my day that if I get an “extra” for the money that I put in, I say goody for me.

Interesting. If you were “robbed” several times by the same machine would you think this moral principle would apply?

 

[Linnyo]

Interesting. If you were “robbed” several times by the same machine would you think this moral principle would apply?

I’ve never been so lucky to receive 2 things form a vending machine but I have received ‘nothing’ having put MY money in! I would just take what the machine gave. I obviously have less conscience than you.

 

[lizaanne]

I have been robbed by so many vending machines in my day that if I get an “extra” for the money that I put in, I say goody for me.

Robbed??! It’s a malfunction of a mechanical device. It does not justify steeling from the human being who has to pay for the machine and its contents.

~Liza

 

[TAS2000]

Robbed??! It’s a malfunction of a mechanical device.

So using this reasoning it is robbing the vendor to hold down the button, or is it simply a malfunction of a mechanical device? What makes it theft when it benefits me, and not theft when it benefits the vendor? In both cases, someone is getting something they didn’t give the return for.

For the record, I almost never use the machines, as I am too cheap to pay the outrageous prices when I could buy the same thing in the grocery store for 1/3 the price. I found out about this the other day from a co-worker, and it was rapidly confirmed by all the others around that this machine has done this forever, and it is a well known fact that it is considered a lottery machine - “Will I get nothing for my money, or 2 or more?” (Apparently it is about 50/50 chance either way- to the point where people try to go in pairs to the machine, so if one gets robbed, the next guy will probably get 2, so at least you both get something, if not what you really wanted…) So I doubt the vendor cares enough to properly repair the machine or he would have done it years ago (its been doing this for as long as anyone can remember, and I guess several attempts at complaining “when we will ever get a machine that works?” have gone unnoticed, as were the requests for specifc brands of soda to be put in.)

So, to me, if we claim mechanical failure, then it seems as if it should be a nuetral occurance. Clearly we can’t just say gettting something for nothing makes it theft, or it would be theft when the machine gives nothing, and no one seems to want to support that idea. So what resoning does make it theft?

This is why I thoguht I’d bring it up here. Posters here generally have a higher moral standard, and I knew it’d be interesting to read your responses. For my 2 cents, I’m not intellectually convinced it is theft, but it still “feels” wrong, and I wouldn’t do it. But I like a good discussion.

 

[Verbum_Caro]

So using this reasoning it is robbing the vendor to hold down the button, or is it simply a malfunction of a mechanical device? What makes it theft when it benefits me, and not theft when it benefits the vendor? In both cases, someone is getting something they didn’t give the return for.

TAS,

The distinction would be that the co-worker in your example INTENDS to take something without paying, whereas presumably the vendor does NOT intend to take your money without supplying the purchased item.

If the vendor was intentionally installing a machine that took money without vending an item, that would be theft (and also illegal).

VC

 

[TAS2000]

The distinction would be that the co-worker in your example INTENDS to take something without paying, whereas presumably the vendor does NOT intend to take your money without supplying the purchased item.

If the vendor was intentionally installing a machine that took money without vending an item, that would be theft (and also illegal).

Hmm. But there is no certainty that the machine will dispense multiple items. It is just as likely that you could get nothing. So is the HOPE of getting something close enough to make it stealing? And as for the vendor, can we assume that since he doesn’t care to replace or repair the machine to make it function relaiably that he DOES intend to steal people’s money? Isn’t his neglect in repairing it equivalent to an endorsement of the outcome?

 

[Verbum_Caro]

Isn’t his neglect in repairing it equivalent to an endorsement of the outcome?

Possibly! But that doesn’t change the morality of patrons who attempt to get more than they paid for. A better option for the patrons is not to use the malfunctioning machine (if they expect it to take their money.)

Hmm. But there is no certainty that the machine will dispense multiple items. It is just as likely that you could get nothing. So is the HOPE of getting something close enough to make it stealing?

I was directing my comments to the scenario in your post of a co-worker using the machine in a particular manner with the intent of getting more than what is paid for (which seems more than an idle hope ). It doesn’t matter if he is successful or not.

VC

 

[Catholic_Dude]

Everyone (hopefully) has had the occasion where an extra item has dropped from the vending machine. Usually I just think “Woo Hoo! 2 for the price of 1! Must be my lucky day!” However, there are apparently people at work who have figured out that one of our machines will fairly consistently give out “extras” in certain slots if you hold the button down. One guy was bragging that his personal best was 8 items at once (7 “free” ones).

So here’s the question…does holding down the button with the full intent of trying to get an"extra" treat constitute theft?

Or do you consider it compensation for the fact that the prices are so high ($1 for a 35 cent bag of chips???) and the times when the machine eats your money and gives no snack in return?

Or is it just a neutral occurance, no theft, just one of those things?

any opinions???

When I was younger whenever I was going to use a vending machine I would always look for the items that looked like 2 were going to fall. …Most often that meant however that the person before me got screwed because their item did not fall when they paid.

The prices are already marked up (maybe to take into account the losses due to ‘malfunctions’) and if the owner cant keep proper inventory and accounting to realize the machine is broken then that is more his fault than anything.

If he was getting 7 “free” ones (which I personally dont believe happened), and he kept going back and doing it regularly that would be a sin. At the same time if he likes only Pepsi and there is only one button, and it just happens to be the malfunctioning one, then it isnt his fault.

If it is a random occurrence where multiple things fall then its no big deal, in fact it would be going overboard to track down the owner.