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rdscheirer
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2 Thessalonians 2:3-12- Could this be our new president?
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T700
Guest
Yes, as could you or me, I suppose. I beg everyone to be very, very, careful about using holy scripture to hammer home their pet, political beliefs. Christians have done that since the dawn of the Church and it typically brings us into derision in the eyes of the world, making it that much harder to bring them the message of Jesus Christ.
It is one thing to say, “I disagree with President Obama on the matter of … because the scripture or Church teach …,” but it is quite another to label him the anti-Christ.
Paul
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COPLAND_3
Guest
I admit that there is a side of me that entertains that thought, but another side of me heeds the warning of T700. Don’t be ashamed of asking that question because that is a question that many of us probably ask ourselves or close friends in private. Let’s give the man a chance because he is our president, praise him when he does something that you agree with and stand up and resist him when he crosses the line. Rise above those who have spent the last 8 years hating Bush and let the bitterness end here with us conserative American Catholics.
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T700
Guest
Nicely put! I wish I had said it that well.
It will be an interesting next four years.
Paul
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COPLAND_3
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Thanks! Not to derail the thread, all I know is that our country can not afford to let Obama fail. We have to support this man as much as we can without compromising our beliefs. What a challenge huh! I am going to follow the attitude of the Church as time goes on, when the Vatican points at Obama and screams “Antichrist” then I will too, but so far they have shown him respect and honor for his office, and they are praying for him and willing to support him whatever way they can.Nicely put! I wish I had said it that well.
It will be an interesting next four years.
Paul
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HamtramckSteve
Guest
“that all who have not believed the truth but have approved wrongdoing may be condemned.”
It applies to just about any politician in Washington, London, Paris, Detroit, Chicago and Witchita.
It could just as much apply to starting wars based upon lies and misstatements and increasing the size of the federal government while describing yourself as a “free market, limited government” conservative.
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Proletarian
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God bless ya mate
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COPLAND_3
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I sort of take issue with this because all wrongdoing is not equal, there is a difference in the level of sins. We should have not gone to Iraq even though both parties voted for it, some took responsibilty for it while others tried to wash their hands of it and pretend that they were against it even though they voted for it. Increasing the size of government while describing yourself as a small government politician is misleading and disappointing, but a far cry from being a supporter of chopping up babies and even aborting them after they are born. I can compromise with anybody on economic policy, but there are non-negotiable issues that the Catholic Faith cannot compromise with.
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HamtramckSteve
Guest
Oh, take a chill pill and stop wringing your hands!
My comment wasn’t implying anything other than the possible interpretations of that verse are wide open.
But I don’t see much difference between chopping up babies in utero and blowing them up with bombs.
I wonder how many miscarriages we caused over there. I must have missed those ads from the “pro-life” community here.
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COPLAND_3
Guest
I am sure the bombs did not take 3000 a day as abortion does in our country. But you know what, those innocent lives that we take with those bombs are not intended for them, just those cowards that hide behind them and shoot at us. Can you not see the difference or are you so blinded by party loyality.
But Bush should have listened to the Pope, we should have not gone there in the first place, and both parties in congress should have not voted for it. And one party should have not voted to send our troops and then try to cut their funding once they got there.
And yes, I need a chill pill!
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HamtramckSteve
Guest
Ah, ah. You know what happens when you make assume something!
I didn’t vote for The One (yech) earlier this month, but I also did not vote for the elephantine “alternative.” It was apparent enough to me that the lesser of two evils is still evil, and I voted my conscience.
I wasn’t about to fall for the Republicans’ scare tactics on baby murder and infanticide, though. They could have easily made Roe v. Wade a non-issue at almost any time in the Bush the Lesser years. A simple majority vote of the House and Senate and Our Decider’s signature could have forbade federal courts from ruling on the issue, returning it to the state courts, where it correctly belong.
Then, each of us in our several states could have pushed for the appropriate laws in our states. A failure in one state would not necessarily mean a failure in any other state. Voters in Mississippi could ban abortion without taking into consideration what voters in any other state believe.
Back to the issue at hand, though. The verse can apply to just about any politician.
If I wanted to instigate a little more, I could point out that Obama isn’t exactly “deceptive” when it come to abortion. He makes no bones about what he believes.
Vivat Jesus!
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COPLAND_3
Guest
True, but it does not cause me to consider his position to be any less damaging to the sanctity of life, I’ll still vote for a pro-life slug over a pro-abortion pitbull any day.
They missed a great opportunity to get better control of the issue, but Bush did have success with the Supreme Court judges, in fact that was his greatest success as President in my opinion.
To be honest, I am totally disgusted with both parties, they are no longer serving us. They are unbelievably arrogant.
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tjfoster62
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The financial crisis began in 1999 when the Clinton Administration forced banks to give out mortgages to people who could not afford one. The collapse was not the fault of Bush. I am certainly glad that since 9/11 our country has not been attacked again.
We do need to respect the office of President however we also need to keep our souls clean and pay attention to what is going on so as not to be duped. Let’s all pray for the new administration and hold on to your faith.
We do need to respect the office of President however we also need to keep our souls clean and pay attention to what is going on so as not to be duped. Let’s all pray for the new administration and hold on to your faith.
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tjfoster62
Guest
It very well could be. Stay alert.
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HamtramckSteve
Guest
The current crisis has its roots MUCH farther back than 1999. The establishment of the Federal Reserve in 1913 shares the bulk of the blame.
Without Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac efforts to create a secondary market for mortgages, the lenders would not have been as fast and loose with the dollars. They would have had to carry the loan themselves, with their money, and they probably would have been much more careful.
The Community Reinvestment Act under Carter set the stage, too.
Mix in the cooking of the federal books under every president and congress during the last 100 years, and you get to today.
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tjfoster62
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The “scare tactics” were the truth and if you read any authentic Catholic documents about voting including the statement signed by over 80 US bishops perhaps you would have seen the light. Seriously to think Bush could have overturned Roe vs Wade is silly if not ridiculous. A President can’t do that and I am sure you know that.
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HamtramckSteve
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I voted for a pro-life candidate. I did NOT vote for John McCain, because I do not believe him to have been a PRO-LIFE candidate. Perhaps you can make a case that he is anti-abortion, but his past support for liberal Supreme Court justices makes me doubt that.
And you should know that my post did not say that. What it said was that a majority vote of the House and Senate, with the President’s signature (or an override of his veto) could have removed the issue from federal courts.
A simple bill could be passed that said federal courts could not hear any cases involving abortion, and it would have to remain in state court.
I am sure you know that the Constitution grants Congress the power to determine what types of cases federal courts can hear.
The GOP will never allow Roe v Wade to be overturned, because it means money to them, especially the national party. Every four years they can roll out the issue and raise TENS of MILLIONS of dollars using dead babies, just like the Democrats can.
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COPLAND_3
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The only reason I voted for McCain was because of Palin. I believe she would have been the one who would actually produce results for the Pro-Life movement. Not that she would cause McCain to take action, but I wanted her foot in the door for future considerations. She does not care about party loyalty and she does not go with the flow. McCain was a terrible choice to have dominated, but unfortunately Romney and Huckabee split the conservative ticket which allowed McCain to get in. Hopefully this is an opportunity for the party to reset itself, if Democrats don’t destroy the country before it even matters.
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Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
Put it this way - if Christians have so little respect for their own holy books that they use them to demonise (or divinise) those with whose political positions they disagree (or agree), why should non-Christians respect these books ?
It’s a bad argument, but an understandable position: Christians are their own worst enemies at times.It’s begun. 
This way of using the Bible is a very good reason for allowing it to be read only under licence, for this non-stop & hundred per cent guaranteed wrong identification of public figures is always wrong, & leads to great sins.
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umarandrea
Guest
go get ****ed
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