is this true?

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The First Century Church was walking in a tremendous dimension of God’s truth and power. However, this was lost to us, almost completely, by the time the Dark Ages were upon us. Thus, in Acts 3:20-21 we see that it is God’s heart to restore it all to His Church. Thus, over the last several centuries, God had begun a restoration of revelation of His Truth. What we know today, and our intimate relationship with the person of the Lord Jesus Christ, and how we have the Holy Spirit indwelling us born-again believers are things that the prophets of old had so longed for. We are very privileged!

Understand that restoration often takes place across a long period of time. How much God can restore and reveal to us depends on the degree of our receptivity.
 
Short answer: No, it’s a complete fabrication with no historical basis.
First Century Christianity was VERY Catholic.

Cardinal Newman said, “to be steeped in history is to cease to be Protestant.”👍
 
Short answer: No, it’s a complete fabrication with no historical basis.
First Century Christianity was VERY Catholic.

Cardinal Newman said, “to be steeped in history is to cease to be Protestant.”👍
I like this longer version…

“This one thing at least is certain; whatever history teaches, whatever it omits, whatever it exaggerates or extenuates, whatever it says and unsays, at least the Christianity of history is not Protestantism. If ever there was a safe truth, it is this. … To be deep in history is to cease to be a Protestant.” – John Henry Newman
 
I like this longer version…

“This one thing at least is certain; whatever history teaches, whatever it omits, whatever it exaggerates or extenuates, whatever it says and unsays, at least the Christianity of history is not Protestantism. If ever there was a safe truth, it is this. … To be deep in history is to cease to be a Protestant.” – John Henry Newman
I agree. The longer version is better.👍
 
angelic.org/originalsite/whydenominationsexist.html

The First Century Church was walking in a tremendous dimension of God’s truth and power. However, this was lost to us, almost completely, by the time the Dark Ages were upon us. Thus, in Acts 3:20-21 we see that it is God’s heart to restore it all to His Church. Thus, over the last several centuries, God had begun a restoration of revelation of His Truth. What we know today, and our intimate relationship with the person of the Lord Jesus Christ, and how we have the Holy Spirit indwelling us born-again believers are things that the prophets of old had so longed for. We are very privileged!

Understand that restoration often takes place across a long period of time. How much God can restore and reveal to us depends on the degree of our receptivity.
The entire basis of thinking is absolutely wrong headed and steeped in a romantic naivety about the early church. It is heavily biased by a Protestant perspective. That is its a romantic illusion that attempts to assert that Protestantism’s heretical actions were ordained by God to refocus and rediscover God’s truth stepwise with each new discovered sola or scriptural focus.

Nonsense.

Christianity has always been holistic and The Catholic Church has always taught a Christ centric Word of God - not a narrow focus on single topic salvation slogans. This is an artifact coming out of the error of sola scriptura when Luther was forced into the corner to when Eck humiliated him in public debate and Luther had no other recourse than to play rope-a-dope with a right to claim private interpretation of the Bible (a notion that is itself unbiblical).

There is no way that one can point to Luther and say “aha - see Luther refocused the Church on the truth of Faith Alone and got Christians away from the errors of popes”. Bologna. The truth is Luther was wrong and invented the entire thing by inventing the word “alone” out of thin air as if my magic and tacking it onto the word “faith”. The word does not exist in the original manuscripts.

Christians tend to romanticize the times of early church. Frankly, though their faith was pure and simple it was not all that developed theologically - it took centuries for Christians to mature enough to understand and put together an orthodox religion - including the first Catholic Bible. Yes, we can idealistically look back at the innocence and naievity of early church with pride and wonderment that very simply men and women who largely could not read or write and admire them for their perseverance. They died for what they believed in the midst of severe persecution. Back then life was less about options - and more about just living and surviving day to day. Of course they also believed in an imminent return of Christ - yet ironically no one refers to this transitional pagan period of time as “the dark ages” where Christians were fed to lions and burned in cages for entertainment.

The Roman Empire had order and law - but we certainly can not say that the small Christian sect at the time was representative of the world. No, ironically the term “dark ages” comes centuries later at a time when humanists basking in the benefits and blessings of Christianity have the luxury to look back romantically with smug pride to a pre-Christian era where they idealize pagan Greece. They want society to rediscover and revere the ancient Greek philosophies and reshape European thinking to a more ancient way of life that they considered the pinnacle of human achievement. The glamour of the Greek Philosophies was considered the ideal. Basically we have a bunch of liberal men and elite intellectuals who consider themselves a sort of ruling elite (Renaissance Men) who want to pass judgement on all of history and re-architect society and define what is light and dark for the rest of us.

The Protestant revolution comes directly out of a segment of this liberal-secular mindset. This was the spirit of the age (zeitgeist) that leads to rejecting ecclesial authority in favor of unlimited personal authority and achievement. This is what leads to humanism, liberalism, secularism and the so called secular “enlightenment” that we have today in “the age of enlightenment”. hohum…

Someone looking back in a few hundred more years, might well call this age “the age of insanity” - an age where we proclaim individual liberty for everyone except unborn babies and are free to choose to have fun now and go to hell later (if you don’t belive you have a get out of hell card by “believing you are saved”). :rolleyes:

I think if one looks at the current situation holistically one will see that Protestantism is not being used to teach any lessons to God’s Church (The Catholic Church) except with respect to the lessons of a general chaos and splintering that follows when society rejects apostolic teaching and authority. Take a look around. Protestantism is being shattered into 10’s of thousands of fragments (sects) and it destined for obscurity since each sect is is only a fragmentary truth - not a holistic truth. That is the lesson - irrespective of the attempts of the mega-bible-church aggregators opportunistically trying to sweep up all the pieces and pay for the huge buildings expenses and the professional for hire “motivational speaker” “pastor” with tax exempt tithe collections (it don’t scale during economic slowdowns). But no new spiritual truths have been revealed by that deconstructive model - though we do have some new anathemas now defining good examples of religious error. 😉

But here again, not withstanding arbitrary humanistic titles of “dark ages” or self proclaimed “enlightenment” God has always permitted heresies to come from those vain men who stumble around in the darkness of their own ideas so that The Catholic Church can define through the shadows of their errors what Christianity is not.

James
 
angelic.org/originalsite/whydenominationsexist.html

The First Century Church was walking in a tremendous dimension of God’s truth and power. However, this was lost to us, almost completely, by the time the Dark Ages were upon us. Thus, in Acts 3:20-21 we see that it is God’s heart to restore it all to His Church. Thus, over the last several centuries, God had begun a restoration of revelation of His Truth. What we know today, and our intimate relationship with the person of the Lord Jesus Christ, and how we have the Holy Spirit indwelling us born-again believers are things that the prophets of old had so longed for. We are very privileged!

Understand that restoration often takes place across a long period of time. How much God can restore and reveal to us depends on the degree of our receptivity.
As a professed Protestant your appeal to Ephesians 2:8-9 is interesting.The Catholic doctrine on this point is in direct opposition to the strange theories of Protestantism. Faced by his failure to control his violent and sensuous character, Luther, your spiritual forefather, evolved a theory which is a combination of pessimism and easy optimism. Through the fall of Adam, he maintained, our nature has become essentially evil and must ever remain evil; it is a mass of corruption, and even the redeeming blood of our Savior does not cleanse or heal it; and he pressed his theory so far as to draw the conclusion that all our actions are sinful, not excluding those which we look upon as virtuous. Here we have the pessimism of his system: but now comes its easy optimism. For Luther taught that if only we will have complete confidence that the merits of Christ are actually applied to us, our sins are ignored, as it were, by God; our souls remain indeed hideous in themselves, but God covers them over with the merits of Christ so that these are looked upon by him as being ours; our sins are not “imputed” to us, but the merits of Christ are.

This is the famous doctrine of Justification by Faith. For the Protestant, then, justification does not mean (as it means for the Catholic) an inner change by which the soul becomes a sacred thing, but a mere external non-imputation of sins; and faith means, not an assent to truths divinely revealed, but a personal persuasion that the merits of Christ have been applied to us. This faith, in the various Protestant systems, is the only thing which counts: good works are of no avail - indeed, they are impossible, since all our actions are made evil by the evil source from which they spring. A further conclusion from Luther’s principles is that there can be no such thing as Merit.
 
[The First Century Church was walking in a tremendous dimension of God’s truth and power. However, this was lost to us, almost completely, by the time the Dark Ages were upon us.
Says who?
Thus, over the last several centuries, God had begun a restoration of revelation of His Truth.
[/QUOTE]
 
angelic.org/originalsite/whydenominationsexist.html

The First Century Church was walking in a tremendous dimension of God’s truth and power. However, this was lost to us, almost completely, by the time the Dark Ages were upon us. Thus, in Acts 3:20-21 we see that it is God’s heart to restore it all to His Church. Thus, over the last several centuries, God had begun a restoration of revelation of His Truth. What we know today, and our intimate relationship with the person of the Lord Jesus Christ, and how we have the Holy Spirit indwelling us born-again believers are things that the prophets of old had so longed for. We are very privileged!

Understand that restoration often takes place across a long period of time. How much God can restore and reveal to us depends on the degree of our receptivity.
No. It’s demonstrably false. For instance, this line from the website jumped out at me:

“For centuries, the Roman Catholic Church had taught that you had to do good works to earn your way into heaven.”

Never once has the Catholic Church taught that a person “earns” his way to heaven. It does teach that we must perform good works, that part is true, but it never has taught that by doing so we can “earn” our way to heaven. Just the opposite: the Catholic Church condemned “salvation by works” as a heresy called Pelagianism about 1,000 years before Martin Luther was born.
 
The entire basis of thinking is absolutely wrong headed and steeped in a romantic naivety about the early church. …Protestantism’s heretical actions were ordained by God to refocus and rediscover God’s truth stepwise with each new discovered sola or scriptural focus.
Who is the author to say that the basis of thinking is “absolutely wrong headed”? I’d say this author is heavily biased by a Roman Catholic perspective. Who is the author to say that it is an illusion?
Nonsense.
There is no way that one can point to Luther and say “aha - see Luther refocused the Church on the truth of Faith Alone and got Christians away from the errors of popes”. Bologna… The word does not exist in the original manuscripts.
Unbiblical? This author does not seem to be acquainted with history, much less Jewish history… Such is the “Christ centric Word of God” for the Roman Catholics.
Christians tend to romanticize the times of early church. … Back then life was less about options - and more about just living and surviving day to day. Of course they also believed in an imminent return of Christ - yet ironically no one refers to this transitional pagan period of time as “the dark ages” where Christians were fed to lions and burned in cages for entertainment.
Neither did the word “Trinity” exist in the original manuscripts, so what is the author implying?
The Roman Empire had order and law - but we certainly can not say that the small Christian sect at the time was representative of the world. No, ironically the term “dark ages” comes centuries later at a time when humanists basking in the benefits and blessings of Christianity… Basically we have a bunch of liberal men and elite intellectuals who consider themselves a sort of ruling elite (Renaissance Men) who want to pass judgement on all of history and re-architect society and define what is light and dark for the rest of us.
Romanticize? Notice that is was the Roman Empire that first persecuted Christians, up until some guy by the name of Constantine decided he could exploit Christians in his usurping the Roman throne. Did Christ ask anybody to put together an orthodox religion? I believe not. As I recall, he merely asked people to believe and that’s it, no elaborate traditions, no strict church rules, no Pope. Ironically, we see instead that throughout the centuries the church has been corrupted into a Roman Catholic church that is almost nowhere Biblical.
The Protestant revolution comes directly out of a segment of this liberal-secular mindset. This was the spirit of the age (zeitgeist) that leads to rejecting ecclesial authority in favor of unlimited personal authority and achievement. This is what leads to humanism, liberalism, secularism and the so called secular “enlightenment” that we have today in “the age of enlightenment”. hohum…
That’s not the Dark Ages according to history.
Humanists at the time believed that since the fall of Rome in the 5th century, culture had stagnated, owing to the loss of many classical Latin texts, and the nearly thousand year intervening period was a Dark Age, a term first coined by Petrarch in the 1330s. This was the reason why it was called the Dark Ages: the events of the period often seem “dark” to us only because of the paucity of artistic and cultural output, including historical records, when compared with later times. Additionally, the Dark Ages came AFTER the Renaissance period, so all this talk about Greek philosophies and Renaissance Men are absolute rubbish.
Someone looking back in a few hundred more years, might well call this age “the age of insanity” - an age where we proclaim individual liberty for everyone except unborn babies and are free to choose to have fun now and go to hell later (if you don’t belive you have a get out of hell card by “believing you are saved”). :rolleyes:
So amidst all this nonsense the author does not believe it possible for true revelation and enlightenment to happen. Sure, just as no one would have expected Jesus to be born at a time when Herod massacred infants in Bethlehem.
I think if one looks at the current situation holistically one will see that Protestantism is not being used to teach any lessons to God’s Church (The Catholic Church) except with respect to the lessons of a general chaos and splintering that follows when society rejects apostolic teaching and authority. Take a look around. Protestantism is being shattered into 10’s of thousands of fragments (sects) and it destined for obscurity since each sect is is only a fragmentary truth - not a holistic truth. That is the lesson - irrespective of the attempts of the mega-bible-church aggregators opportunistically trying to sweep up all the pieces and pay for the huge buildings expenses and the professional for hire “motivational speaker” “pastor” with tax exempt tithe collections (it don’t scale during economic slowdowns). But no new spiritual truths have been revealed by that deconstructive model - though we do have some new anathemas now defining good examples of religious error. 😉
This is why the author is not invited to be a historian. Historians call that particular time the Age of Reason.
…God has always permitted heresies to come from those vain men who stumble around in the darkness of their own ideas so that The Catholic Church can define through the shadows of their errors what Christianity is not.

James
Ironically, we claim that God has permitted heresies to corrupt the church so that the Protestant Church can define through the shadows of their errors what Christianity is not.
 
I only put “…” in the replies of Central James because it is very long and wants to 6,000 words only. thanks
 
Romanticize? Notice that is was the Roman Empire that first persecuted Christians, up until some guy by the name of Constantine decided he could exploit Christians in his usurping the Roman throne. Did Christ ask anybody to put together an orthodox religion? I believe not. As I recall, he merely asked people to believe and that’s it, no elaborate traditions, no strict church rules, no Pope. Ironically, we see instead that throughout the centuries the church has been corrupted into a Roman Catholic church that is almost nowhere Biblical.
Here’s your problem. This is utter fiction. Constantine did nothing but legalize Christianity.
 
Who is the author to say that the basis of thinking is “absolutely wrong headed”? I’d say this author is heavily biased by a Roman Catholic perspective. Who is the author to say that it is an illusion?
You opened a thread asking for out (name removed by moderator)ut (“Is this true?”). So it’s natural that people would answer your question. Now when a response is posted, you ask “Who is the author to say that?” Well, you asked us.

You voice many historically incorrect ideas, not the least of which is your notion that Jesus didn’t institute a church with a pope. More confusingly, your own posts are inconsistent – you seem to claim in one that the Catholic Church was founded by Constantine (!) and in another that the Catholic Church was founded in 1559 (!!). Perhaps you should tell us what you believe, rather than telling us why you dislike what we believe.
 
Here is a list of popes

Saint Peter the 1st pope in 33 a.d. to Benedict XVI our 266th. pope
newadvent.org/cathen/12272b.htm

Here are the writings of the Early Church Fathers
newadvent.org/fathers/

with Saint Ignatius of Antioch’s writings about the Catholic Church in the year 110 a.d.

Chapter 8.

Let nothing be done without the bishop
See that you all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid.

newadvent.org/fathers/0109.htm

Constantine I (27 February ca. 272 – 22 May 337) the Catholic Church was on its 26th pope when Consatntine was born.

If you are a Lutheran, your religion was founded by Martin Luther, an ex- monk of the Catholic Church, in the year 1517.

If you belong to the Church of England, your religion was founded by King Henry VIII **a Catholic **in the year **1534 **because the Pope would not grant him a divorce with the right to remarry.

John Calvin was Catholic too!

Before there were Protestant Denominations their was the Catholic Church.
 
Pay attention to the dates! The Protestant Reformation did not happen until
1517 a.d.! over 1000 years after these were written!

“[A]ll the people wondered that there should be such a difference between the unbelievers and the elect, of whom this most admirable Polycarp was one, having in our own times been an apostolic and prophetic teacher, and bishop of the **Catholic Church **which is in Smyrna. For every word that went out of his mouth either has been or shall yet be accomplished.”
**Martyrdom of Polycarp, 16:2 (A.D. 155). **

“…to be in honour however with the **Catholic Church **for the ordering of ecclesiastical discipline…one to the Laodicenes, another to the Alexandrians, both forged in Paul’s name to suit the heresy of Marcion, and several others, which cannot be received into the Catholic Church; for it is not fitting that gall be mixed with honey. The Epistle of Jude no doubt, and the couple bearing the name of John, are accepted by the Catholic Church.…But of Arsinous, called also Valentinus, or of Militiades we receive nothing at all.”
**The fragment of Muratori (A.D. 177). **

“[N]or does it consist in this, that he should again falsely imagine, as being above this [fancied being], a Pleroma at one time supposed to contain thirty, and at another time an innumerable tribe of Aeons, as these teachers who are destitute of truly divine wisdom maintain; while the **Catholic Church **possesses one and the same faith throughout the whole world, as we have already said.”
Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 1:10,3 (A.D. 180).

100

“For it is evident that those men lived not so long ago,–in the reign of Antoninus for the most part,–and that they at first were believers in the doctrine of the Catholic Church, in the church of Rome under the episcopate of the blessed Eleutherus, until on account of their ever restless curiosity, with which they even infected the brethren, they were more than once expelled.” **Tertullian, On the Prescription Against Heretics, 22,30 **

200

”Whence you ought to know that the bishop is in the Church, and the Church in the bishop; and if any one be not with the bishop, that he is not in the Church, and that those flatter themselves in vain who creep in, not having peace with God’s priests, and think that they communicate secretly with some; while the Church, which is Catholic and one, is not cut nor divided, but is indeed connected and bound together by the cement of priests who cohere with one another.”
**Cyprian, To Florentius, Epistle 66/67 (A.D. 254). **

300

“I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints, the remission of sins, the resurrection of the flesh, and eternal life. Amen.” **Apostles Creed (A.D. 360). **

400
500
600
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800
900
1000
1100
1200
1300
1400
1500----->the Protestant Reformation
1600
1700
1800
1900
2000-----> you are here
 
angelic.org/originalsite/whydenominationsexist.html

The First Century Church was walking in a tremendous dimension of God’s truth and power. However, this was lost to us, almost completely, by the time the Dark Ages were upon us. Thus, in Acts 3:20-21 we see that it is God’s heart to restore it all to His Church. Thus, over the last several centuries, God had begun a restoration of revelation of His Truth. What we know today, and our intimate relationship with the person of the Lord Jesus Christ, and how we have the Holy Spirit indwelling us born-again believers are things that the prophets of old had so longed for. We are very privileged!

Understand that restoration often takes place across a long period of time. How much God can restore and reveal to us depends on the degree of our receptivity.
Curiously enough, the claim of the Church to be a visible society has proved to be a stumbling block to many. In the Middle Ages the Fraticelli thought they discovered two Churches, one “carnal,” the other “spiritual,” while Wycliff and the Hussites vigorously opposed the notion of a Church that could be visible. In the same line of thought lies Luther’s restriction of the Church to the Communion of Saints, and Calvin’s to the number of the predestined. All these theories were devised to justify the repudiation of traditional Christianity as embodied in Catholicism. Analogous to them is the modern antithesis between “the religion of authority” and “the religion of the spirit”; likewise the familiar distinction drawn by idealists between “institutional” and “mystical” elements in religion.

All heresy is an isolating of a part of the Christian inheritance and setting it in opposition to the whole, a principle which is conspicuously verified in every attempt to concentrate attention on the hidden riches of the Church to the exclusion of what is visible.
 
Seriously. You seriously contend that the Lutheran Church is older than the Catholic Church. And whom was Martin Luther separating from?
This question is just a little too good… 😃

And what is also fascinating, is the 1559 year for the Catholic Church. Trent was called in 1545 and after a number of sessions, closed in 1563. So what happened in '59 to give birth to the Church? And who was Luther calling “papist” in 1530 ??? :rolleyes:
 
This question is just a little too good… 😃

And what is also fascinating, is the 1559 year for the Catholic Church. Trent was called in 1545 and after a number of sessions, closed in 1563. So what happened in '59 to give birth to the Church? And who was Luther calling “papist” in 1530 ??? :rolleyes:
Had I thought a little harder, I would have phrased it, “And whom was Martin Luther protesting?” After all, it’s called “Protestantism.” If the Catholic Church didn’t exist, then who was being “protested”?
 
angelic.org/originalsite/whydenominationsexist.html

The First Century Church was walking in a tremendous dimension of God’s truth and power. However, this was lost to us, almost completely, by the time the Dark Ages were upon us. Thus, in Acts 3:20-21 we see that it is God’s heart to restore it all to His Church. Thus, over the last several centuries, God had begun a restoration of revelation of His Truth. What we know today, and our intimate relationship with the person of the Lord Jesus Christ, and how we have the Holy Spirit indwelling us born-again believers are things that the prophets of old had so longed for. We are very privileged!

Understand that restoration often takes place across a long period of time. How much God can restore and reveal to us depends on the degree of our receptivity.
Undoubtably, had God so willed, he might have communicated his testimony directly to each member of the human race as soon as he was able to receive it. The contention of Protestantism is (or was) that he does so. There is no need to insist here on the inconveniences of such a method, had it been adopted. Sad experience has shown how easily men may be led to think that they are inspired. But apart from any other reason, an individualistic revelation seems antecedently improbable because it would not be in keeping with what we know of God’s providential dealings with mankind. God deals with men according to his nature; and man is naturally social. This being so, we should have expected God to make his revelation to men as a body; and such in fact was the case.
 
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