Is this what despair is?

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AnneTeresa

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When you get discouraged because it seems like you try and try but of course you eventually fail, and you can never get it right. And you can’t stop feeling condemned by the church and by the people in it who spout laws and rules but won’t talk to you about the reasons behind them so you will understand. And you are so tired of hearing people condemn other people and you try to stand up for them but you aren’t strong enough and they are the “in” ones anyway and you are just a newbie so you know nothing, and yet you are expected to know it all even though you were never taught it in the first place. And then you are held responsible for what you never even knew or were taught to begin with.

Because there are SO many rules and you lose sight of where is God and Jesus’ love, and it’s all just rules and laws and in the Catholic Church. And there is so much confusion you just can’t figure anything out, you don’t even know what is right and wrong anymore. And you try to get help and you just get different answers from everyone so it makes you more confused.

You know Jesus love is right but it gets so lost in all the rules and judgements. And you are so tired you feel you just can’t go on trying anymore even though you know Jesus is the answer, the church seems so unreasonable and you can’t talk about it because people will jump down your throat instead of try to help you understand… what do u do then?
 
Getting caught-up in the rules is a downer. This will certainly drag you down when they become the foundation. Try focusing on faith, hope and LOVE as the foundation to your religious faith and the rules will fall into place.
 
No that’s not what despair is. What you describe is more like frustration.

From the first paragraph of Catholic Encyclopedia:

Despair, ethically regarded, is the voluntary and complete abandonment of all hope of saving one’s soul and of having the means required for that end. It is not a passive state of mind: on the contrary it involves a positive act of the will by which a person deliberately gives over any expectation of ever reaching eternal life. There is presupposed an intervention of the intellect in virtue of which one comes to decide definitely that salvation is impossible. This last is motived by the persuasion either that the individual’s sins are too great to be forgiven or that it is too hard for human nature to cooperate with the grace of God or that Almighty God is unwilling to aid the weakness or pardon the offenses of his creatures, etc.

The rest of the article here: newadvent.org/cathen/04755a.htm
 
When you get discouraged because it seems like you try and try but of course you eventually fail, and you can never get it right. And you can’t stop feeling condemned by the church and by the people in it who spout laws and rules but won’t talk to you about the reasons behind them so you will understand. And you are so tired of hearing people condemn other people and you try to stand up for them but you aren’t strong enough and they are the “in” ones anyway and you are just a newbie so you know nothing, and yet you are expected to know it all even though you were never taught it in the first place. And then you are held responsible for what you never even knew or were taught to begin with.

Because there are SO many rules and you lose sight of where is God and Jesus’ love, and it’s all just rules and laws and in the Catholic Church. And there is so much confusion you just can’t figure anything out, you don’t even know what is right and wrong anymore. And you try to get help and you just get different answers from everyone so it makes you more confused.

I know how you feel.
You are not well. Cant you find a helping ear?
You know Jesus love is right but it gets so lost in all the rules and judgements. And you are so tired you feel you just can’t go on trying anymore even though you know Jesus is the answer, the church seems so unreasonable and you can’t talk about it because people will jump down your throat instead of try to help you understand… what do u do then?
 
It seemed like Jesus actually held many of the “rules” of His church in contempt – at least in comparison to a haughty attitude. He was more interested in the “touchy-feely” things than in the rigor of ruledom. People that “jump down your neck” do it for reasons ranging from honest desire to help (although their strategy may be lacking) to self-righteousness and self-aggrandizement.

Alan
 
Modern Catholic Dictionary:

DESPAIR. The sin by which a person gives up all hope of salvation or of the means necessary to reach heaven. It is therefore not mere anxiety about the future or fear that one may be lost. It is rather a deliberate yielding to the idea that human nature cannot co-operate with God’s grace, or that the despairing person is too wicked to be saved, or that God has cast one away. It is a grave crime against God’s goodness. Experience also shows that a tendency to despair can seriously injure one’s physical and mental health, and ironically can lead to all kinds of sinful indulgence. (Etym. Latin de, the opposite of + sperare, to hope: desperatio, hopelessness, despair.)
 
Thanks to everyone who replied. I read the links and I do understand what despair is now.

This is not despair I am certain now. It is frustration. Frustration over all the legalism in the church that keeps me from the love of God. I hate it, I am angry about it, and I am sick and tired of it ruining any peace I have.

I honestly think the catholic church has some things all wrong–rules before people make me crazy. I want to love and serve God but rules tie me up in “shoulds”. I can see why some people get so scrupulous. I feel bad for them. I think certain personalities are more susceptible to this. It is infuriating.

Also, I’ve realized that the catholic church sees things as black/white and on these boards at least, anyone who sees anything as gray is labeled wrong. It’s messed up. Life has many gray areas, all we can do is seek God first and do what we can, and beg forgiveness when we fail.

This life of faith is supposed to be about God’s love, for me the rules make that really hard. Because some things are gray but the “rules” say they are black/white, then it results in putting a square peg in a round hole, hence frustration and the feeling you are banging your head against the wall.
 
It is not about “rules”.

Rules are for clubs not for the Church.

There are though the Commandments of God known via Divine Revelation and there is the Natural Moral Law (known by reason and more clearly with the help of Revelation) and yes like any society there are laws that govern life within the Church (Canon Law etc).

Jesus said …if you love me keep my commandments…

Someone could say to him: But really do I have to not steal gold (etc)? Do I really have to not commit adultery? Do I really have to really have to be chaste? Can’t I just love God and concentrate on that?

If you love me…keep my commandments…

Yes while we need to live according to the commandments and the laws given for the Church…it is not about rules…they are not “rules”. Nor even are these the focus.

Just as the fact that I am not to go out with some other girl on a date is not my focus in loving my wife …but does not for that reason become something I do not need to observe.

Our YES to Jesus involves a good number of “no’s” which are not the focus…He is the focus…but which none the less are part of our loving him.

Pope Benedict XVI:

“I want them to understand that it is beautiful to be a Christian! The generally prevailing idea is that Christians have to observe an immense number of commandments, prohibitions, precepts, and other such restrictions, so that Christianity is a heavy and oppressive way of living, and it would therefore be more liberating to live without all these burdens. But I would like to make it clear that to be sustained by this great Love and God’s sublime revelation is not a burden, but rather a set of wings—that it is truly beautiful to be a Christian. It is an experience that gives us room to breathe and move, but most of all, it places us within a community since, as Christians, we are never alone: first of all, there is God, who is always with us; secondly, we are always forming a great community among ourselves: a community of people together on a journey, a community with a project for the future. All of this means that we are empowered to live a life worth living. This is the joy of being a Christian: that it is beautiful and right to believe!”[19] vatican.va/roman_curia/secretariat_state/card-bertone/2007/documents/rc_seg-st_20070808_125-cav-colombo_en.html
 
like any society there are laws that govern life within the Church (Canon Law etc).
These are the ones I have trouble with. I understand we need to follow the commandments. I think you miss my point.

I am not trying to get away with anything or break commandments. I just want to be able to live in some peace without constant anxiety over something I can’t do anything about.
Pope Benedict XVI:

“I want them to understand that it is beautiful to be a Christian! The generally prevailing idea is that Christians have to observe an immense number of commandments, prohibitions, precepts, and other such restrictions, so that Christianity is a heavy and oppressive way of living, and it would therefore be more liberating to live without all these burdens. But I would like to make it clear that to be sustained by this great Love and God’s sublime revelation is not a burden, but rather a set of wings—that it is truly beautiful to be a Christian. It is an experience that gives us room to breathe and move, but most of all, it places us within a community since, as Christians, we are never alone: first of all, there is God, who is always with us; secondly, we are always forming a great community among ourselves: a community of people together on a journey, a community with a project for the future. [19] vatican.va/roman_curia/secretariat_state/card-bertone/2007/documents/rc_seg-st_20070808_125-cav-colombo_en.html
Yes, well if this is true, I’d like to know how because what he describes here in bold has been my experience so far. (not always but often enough that I’m sick of it and am getting drained from it)
 
These are the ones I have trouble with. I understand we need to follow the commandments. I think you miss my point.

I am not trying to get away with anything or break commandments. I just want to be able to live in some peace without constant anxiety over something I can’t do anything about.

Yes, well if this is true, I’d like to know how because what he describes here in bold has been my experience so far. (not always but often enough that I’m sick of it and am getting drained from it)
I find it in a way all rather simple …one lives the Catholic Faith. I really do not think your anxiety is not from Canon Law per se. I will pray you get things to a more peaceful place. Having a good orthodox spiritual director can be of some help there.

Read more of the weds audiences and homilies of Pope Benedict XVI too.

What he said there in the quote above is true…we can live joyfully as Christians with the joy of knowing Jesus of Nazareth. Knowing true life. Even in the midst of any personal crosses. And he does not abandon us in our sufferings he can be with us in them… as can the Church.
 
I find it in a way all rather simple …one lives the Catholic Faith. I really do not think your anxiety is not from Canon Law per se. I will pray you get things to a more peaceful place. Having a good orthodox spiritual director can be of some help there.

Read more of the weds audiences and homilies of Pope Benedict XVI too.

What he said there in the quote above is true…we can live joyfully as Christians with the joy of knowing Jesus of Nazareth. Knowing true life. Even in the midst of any personal crosses. And he does not abandon us in our sufferings he can be with us in them… as can the Church.
Opps that should read:

I find it in a way all rather simple …one lives the Catholic Faith. I really do not think your anxiety is from Canon Law per se. I will pray you get things to a more peaceful place. Having a good orthodox spiritual director can be of some help there.

Read more of the weds audiences and homilies of Pope Benedict XVI too.

What he said there in the quote above is true…we can live joyfully as Christians with the joy of knowing Jesus of Nazareth. Knowing true life. Even in the midst of any personal crosses. And he does not abandon us in our sufferings he can be with us in them… as can the Church.
 
Thanks to everyone who replied. I read the links and I do understand what despair is now.

This is not despair I am certain now. It is frustration. Frustration over all the legalism in the church that keeps me from the love of God. I hate it, I am angry about it, and I am sick and tired of it ruining any peace I have.
Just read 1 Cor 13 for an example of what I think you’re talking about. No matter how many rules we follow and Good Deeds we do, it’s all about love or we’re nothing.

Moreover, Jesus Himself did a pretty good job of scoffing at the rules, insofar as he held those in contempt who went around telling everyone else (including Jesus’s own friends) that they were in violation of rules.

There are many examples of this, but among my favorites is the one where Jesus’s friends were drinking from unwashed cups (gasp!) and not only defended them against accusations, He didn’t say diddly squat to them about it. In Matt 23:27-28 He said to such people, “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness."

See Mark 7.

Sometimes the “legalists” like to cite Jesus telling the adulteress, “go and sin no more.” Well, he did that ONLY after he got rid of her condemners and sent them all away ashamed and confused, plus He did it in private.
I honestly think the catholic church has some things all wrong–rules before people make me crazy. I want to love and serve God but rules tie me up in “shoulds”. I can see why some people get so scrupulous. I feel bad for them. I think certain personalities are more susceptible to this. It is infuriating.
Also, I’ve realized that the catholic church sees things as black/white and on these boards at least, anyone who sees anything as gray is labeled wrong. It’s messed up. Life has many gray areas, all we can do is seek God first and do what we can, and beg forgiveness when we fail.
I share your view about some things. For an explosive example, let’s look at the “precepts of the Church.” There were no such things in the early years of Christianity, so how were they saved then? I’ve asked this on these fora only to be told that Jesus empowered His Church, essentially, to do all the speaking for Him. That doesn’t wash, though, or everything the Church has ever said or done would have been perfect, and I wish anyone who thinks that could step up and tell me what really happened with the Crusades, the Inquisition, and the rampant practices of simony that went on in the not-so-distant past.
This life of faith is supposed to be about God’s love, for me the rules make that really hard. Because some things are gray but the “rules” say they are black/white, then it results in putting a square peg in a round hole, hence frustration and the feeling you are banging your head against the wall.
I agree. In defense of the church, however, I’ve sometimes found that those on these boards who can run rings around me quoting scholarly pronouncements this, and papal encyclical that, and various other sources, and make the Church out to be more legalistic than she is. They sound like they know everything and me, I don’t claim to be a scholar but I’ve had enough Scripture soak into my heart that I just know what they say is wrong. Often, upon digging, it turns out the Church herself teaches – and even sometimes obviously so in the Catechism – that there are exceptions.

Here’s a perfect example. A few months ago I got into some amazing threads about lying. The self-proclaimed “absolutists” on the matter (who, btw, wouldn’t know absolute if it jumped up in their faces) held the position that any form of lying whatsoever is wrong. When the CCC teachings about some people, such as unjust aggressors, having no right to know such truth, then then say that one can “cleverly” (my word not theirs) withhold part of the truth or use other obfuscation techniques, but cannot actually tell a literal lie.

The construct I liked to use was if a gunman with a ski mask on were after me with weapon drawn, and I run around the corner of a building where said other poster happened to be standing, and the gunman said, “which way did he go?” They would actually say it would be OK to shrug and say “I don’t know” (which is itself a lie, but of course these are self-proclaimed “absolutists” we’re dealing with) or to say something totally different like, “why do you need to know?” These people say that lying is ALWAYS a grave matter because it is contrary to the very nature of God, which is truth. To the old scenario of a Nazi coming to the door, they either say you must not directly deny the truth, or they say the scenario is so remote it doesn’t ever happen. Again, if we are claiming something is ALWAYS and ABSOLUTELY wrong, it should hold muster in any possible scenario, no matter how unlikely.

Before Jesus, we had many rules that had to be followed to keep from going to hell, with full knowledge it was humanly impossible to do so. Jesus didn’t come to up the stakes and make it even harder, He came to fulfill the law of the spirit of truth, not further empower the law of sin and death.

Rom 8:
1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death.

Alan
 
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