Is "torrenting" a sin or morally wrong?

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davyvfr

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Hello,

I would like to know if “torrenting” media such as games/video are a sin or is it morally wrong? Torrenting is downloading media illegally that should otherwise be purchased. Torrenting may be comparable to stealing but in a digital sense.
 
Torrenting is not morally wrong if what you obtain is free and open source, shareware, or unfree media which you already have a right to the use of through previous acts. Some examples would be the torrenting of TV shows (including HBO, etc. if you pay for cable), films (if you have the DVD or have seen it at the cinema), the downloading of ISO images of games, Windows, or other software to which you already own a license (often called the “CD-Key”), but do not have a usable copy of the binaries.

On the other hand, using Bittorrent for piracy, the downloading of content or media that you do not have a right to use (such as films that you have not paid for in any way, or music that you’ve never owned), is generally considered by most people I have spoken to to be the sin of theft.

I personally had used Bittorrent for both purposes, although not to extremes (it would be sinful even on my view to write this post in a pirated copy of MS Office running on a pirated copy of Windows using a pirated license while doing maths in a pirated copy of Mathematica while playing a pirated video game, and burning the pirated video game and film to disk using a pirated copy of ConvertXtoDVD, which was not an unrealistic situation amongst computer geeks even when I did IT, in 2008 or 2009), and 90% or more for the former (downloading F/OSS, binaries to which I have a license, television shows Doctor Who] since I pay for a television license), and have never felt the need to confess it. I should re-evaluate my position, most likely.
 
Khalid said:
Torrenting is not morally wrong if what you obtain is free and open source, shareware, or unfree media which you already have a right to the use of through previous acts. Some examples would be the torrenting of TV shows (including HBO, etc. if you pay for cable), films (if you have the DVD or have seen it at the cinema), the downloading of ISO images of games, Windows, or other software to which you already own a license (often called the “CD-Key”), but do not have a usable copy of the binaries.

On the other hand, using Bittorrent for piracy, the downloading of content or media that you do not have a right to use (such as films that you have not paid for in any way, or music that you’ve never owned), is generally considered by most people I have spoken to to be the sin of theft.

I personally had used Bittorrent for both purposes, although not to extremes (it would be sinful even on my view to write this post in a pirated copy of MS Office running on a pirated copy of Windows using a pirated license while doing maths in a pirated copy of Mathematica while playing a pirated video game, and burning the pirated video game and film to disk using a pirated copy of ConvertXtoDVD, which was not an unrealistic situation amongst computer geeks even when I did IT, in 2008 or 2009), and 90% or more for the former (downloading F/OSS, binaries to which I have a license, television shows on channels that I pay for), and have never felt the need to confess it. I should re-evaluate my position, most likely.
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I think torrenting is a sin if you had full knowledge that you had to pay for the software and it was still downloaded illegally (stealing in the digital age). I originally didn’t realize how I was indirectly hurting game developers until now. When you really think of all the people who “could” have lost a job over somebody downloading a game in 5 minutes that they spent over 5 years on illegally.

This could be debated though as wether to be seen as a venial or mortal sin.
 
No, you misunderstand.

In this example, allow that I have legally purchased a copy of Windows, no matter what the price (whether retail or OEM). I do not actually own Windows, or even my own copy of it: I am merely given a license to use the binaries. This license is included and explained in the long, hardly-ever-read End User License Agreements that are attached to most software. I didn’t purchase Windows, nor can anyone purchase Windows: I purchased a license to use a copy of Windows, as does everyone else. (The actual valuable part that you purchase is the “CD Key” - the series of numbers that unlocks Windows and verifies that the user has purchased a license.)

Now, imagine that I need to install or re-install this copy of Windows, for which I have legally purchased a license, but the physical media containing the binaries (the disk) is scratched or otherwise rendered inoperable. I am within my rights to download a replacement copy of the binaries (an ISO image of a Windows install disk) that I own a valid license to use.

I am not within my rights to download a copy of Windows that I do not own a valid license to use. (I am not within my rights to download Windows and a “crack” or “CD key generator” under any circumstances.) I am not within my rights to download the source code of Windows, as I have no rights to them: when purchasing Windows, I purchased a license to use the compiled binaries of Windows subject to certain restrictions (such as lack of reverse-engineering or decompiling), and not a license to the source.

You can apply this to any game, by replacing the word “Windows” with “Splinter Cell” or “Assassin’s Creed”.
 
Khalid said:
I am not within my rights to download a copy of Windows that I do not own a valid license to use. (I am not within my rights to download Windows and a “crack” or “CD key generator” under any circumstances.) I am not within my rights to download the source code of Windows, as I have no rights to them: when purchasing Windows, I purchased a license to use the compiled binaries of Windows subject to certain restrictions
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Ok, I understand, you payed for the license to use the software, therefore making it legal. But what if one were to download a game/video they didn’t have rights to? Then it’s an act of piracy? Then that would constitute a sin or be morally wrong?
 
Yes, you understand now. If you don’t have a license to use the software, and a license is required to use it, it is wrong to acquire use of that software or a license for it by theft. If you have a legitimately-acquired license to use the software, it is not.
 
davyvfr said:
Hello,

I would like to know if “torrenting” media such as games/video are a sin or is it morally wrong? Torrenting is downloading media illegally that should otherwise be purchased. Torrenting may be comparable to stealing but in a digital sense.
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The legality or Illegality of an action is a boundary set by man and has nothing to do with sin or morals. Chewing gum in Bangkok or eating ice cream in Carmel is a criminal/illegal offense, but it isn’t immoral or a sin. The same goes for torrenting, its illegal but not immoral.
On the other hand its perfectly legal to download and view hardcore pornography but that is immoral. If we were to govern our actions by the legality or illegality of them, then the world would be even worse than it is now. i.e " lets watch porn because the law says that’s fine " or " go get an abortion because its perfectly legal " but " send davyvfr to jail because he downloaded a copy of “Jaws”!!!
The law as the old saying goes…Is a ( cross between mule and donkey )!.
 
Downloading files by way of using Bittorrent is not stealing at all, it does not meet the definition of theft. Is it a sin or morally wrong? Not in my mind it is not, but others might have different opinions.
 
Avdima said:
Downloading files by way of using Bittorrent is not stealing at all, it does not meet the definition of theft. Is it a sin or morally wrong? Not in my mind it is not, but others might have different opinions.
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You are wrong. It is not an ‘opinion’, it is an objective fact.

It has already been explained above:

Obtaining, by whatever means (including torrents, manual disk-to-disk copies, photocopying, actually taking it off a shelf, etc), something which you do not have any rights to is theft, whether it is an unlicensed copy or the physical thing itself. Theft is always and everywhere a mortal sin.

I don’t know how much more simply it can be put.
 
I’m not sure if it’s illegal or not, but…I mean, I do think we should all try to respect Copyright laws and all that. Let’s face it, millions of young people do it every day, and there’s not much we can do to stop them, but I think we should try to take care not to set a bad example.
 
Khalid said:
Now, imagine that I need to install or re-install this copy of Windows, for which I have legally purchased a license, but the physical media containing the binaries (the disk) is scratched or otherwise rendered inoperable. I am within my rights to download a replacement copy of the binaries (an ISO image of a Windows install disk) that I own a valid license to use.
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Actually, I am pretty sure that if you read the Licenses Agreement, it would probably say something about not having the right to make backup copies and the like. Just because you legitimately bought something, does not give you the right to reacquire it in an illegal fashion.
 
US and UK law both have provisions that allow the making of personal archival copies of pretty much any media that you lawfully own, as long as you do not redistribute them for profit, within the limits of the first-sale doctrine (which is hazy when it comes to multiplication of copies, instead of transfer of ownership of a single physical copy, of digital information).
 
After much thinking and a year of discernment, I deleted everything from my computer that I did not pay for.
That means I deleted about $3000 worth of music that someone had given me. When in doubt, delete. Save your money and pay for it. Otherwise, do without.
 
atassina said:
After much thinking and a year of discernment, I deleted everything from my computer that I did not pay for.
That means I deleted about $3000 worth of music that someone had given me. When in doubt, delete. Save your money and pay for it. Otherwise, do without.
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Thats interesting you mentioned it, since I did the exact same with my computer. Deleted $800 worth of pirated software/video. Really does make me feel better 🙂
 
This is a question that I struggled with as well.

But honestly, it is possible to live without torrenting. I am able to get all the software I need legally at a reasonable price (using coupons, etc.). As for music, I’m not a big music fan but when I do want to listen to music there are countless free, legal song sources such as internet radio or real radio (I ❤️ Immaculate Heart radio! 👍). For movies/anime, there are Netflix, Redbox, Hulu, Youtube, Crunchyroll, etc. The options are endless these days and there is less need to torrent things.

Besides, there are also dangers with torrenting such as getting viruses, or even getting sued in court. It is possible to live torrent-free. You should try it out. If you would like specific suggestions I may be able to help.
 
I don’t torrent music. I mainly torrent software of the types described, and television. Of course, you could use Netflix for television, but not only does it cost money, torrents of episodes are out within an hour, Netflix takes a day.
 
atassina said:
After much thinking and a year of discernment, I deleted everything from my computer that I did not pay for.
That means I deleted about $3000 worth of music that someone had given me. When in doubt, delete. Save your money and pay for it. Otherwise, do without.
Click to expand...
You do not always have to pay for music to legally listen to music as there are free, legal music download websites and free, legal music streaming websites, but you have to be careful the website is legal so look at the terms and conditions before downloading or streaming any music and if you want to use music on say a youtube video, look at the terms and conditions of each song before using because the song owner may not give permission to use song.

bandcamp.com offers many songs for free or you can put the amount you would like to give for song or album.
 
Thankfully, most companies are wising up to the demands of the population at large. I just read an article yesterday about how Netflix was streaming the latest season of Breaking Bad in the UK within several hours of its US broadcast. With such inexpensive (or free, in some cases) availability of a lot of currently popular media, I think a lot of people are passing on the illegal options.

In the same vein, a lot of movies these days come with a free digital version of the movie that users can put onto iTunes and take with them. So many of the arguments that people use to justify their illegal actions are really falling by the wayside as companies invest more in popular options (streaming, portable viewing, etc.). It’s unfortunate that the industries were only forced into this merely to combat piracy, though, instead of there being a natural progression of technology and media advancement.
 
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