Is transgender a sin?

[Numinous]

I am sorry that you cannot find support even among the supposed disciples of Christ. Ugh!!

And by support, I do not mean support of your lifestyle or whatever but rather meeting another human being’s basic needs of food, shelter, water, and companionship.

Are you in the States, by the way?

 

[pathia]

I am sorry that you cannot find support even among the supposed disciples of Christ. Ugh!!

And by support, I do not mean support of your lifestyle or whatever but rather meeting another human being’s basic needs of food, shelter, water, and companionship.

Are you in the States, by the way?

Yes, this is in the states where this happens. Things are better for folks like me in some European states and Canada, but most of the world is even worst. Murder is the number one cause of death for transsexuals in most places. Even here in the states, over the years I’ve known six people that were murdered for being transsexual. Only one was actually a sex worker. The number of people assaulted or molested is way over 50%. I don’t know of any other cohort which such dreadfully high numbers, however my perception is obviously biased.

This is why I have to temper my words. Both times I was assaulted, the assaulter was shouting out biblical versus and that I was damned to hell and they were going to help speed up the process etc. This was of course interspersed with all sorts of words that are negative terms for GLBT people.

 

[Numinous]

Wow. See, Jesus would have invited you to dinner. He would’ve sat down and broken bread with you.

Actually, did you know he is inviting you to share his meal right now? (And I really hope I’m not coming off as pedantic, sappy, or hackneyed…)

 

[pathia]

Wow. See, Jesus would have invited you to dinner. He would’ve sat down and broken bread with you.

Actually, did you know he is inviting you to share his meal right now? (And I really hope I’m not coming off as pedantic, sappy, or hackneyed…)

Priests and churches in general trigger psychiatric episodes in me, so…I don’t know how I would do so in a catholic situation. I doubt it would be helpful for my reintegration into Christianity if I had a episode of insanity in the middle of a mass. My scars from religious based therapy are so deep in my body, I cannot control them. I try so hard, but it’s like I turn into this other person. My mind pulls back and ‘away’ and I have no concept of self of self preservation. Thankfully I am not violent to others, only myself.

That is why I am on places like this forum, visual contact is the most likely trigger, also I am here, on the other side of a screen. If I have an attack, no one here knows, or will be troubled by having to witness my failures as a human.

Oh, and before anyone asks, yes, I have had exorcisms, I’ve heard all the jokes about young priest and old priest If you can’t make light of yourself, who is one to do so to another?

 

[Numinous]

Well, holy ****! What happened to you??

How would it be if all the visual trappings of the Mass were stripped away? For example, Mass being celebrated outside, in a field, by a simply-dressed priest who did not necessarily “look the part”?

 

[pathia]

Well, holy ****! What happened to you??

How would it be if all the visual trappings of the Mass were stripped away? For example, Mass being celebrated outside, in a field, by a simply-dressed priest who did not necessarily “look the part”?

To be honest, I think the visuals are really important. I have no issues with talking to priests here, or on the phone, or in plainsclothing. I mean, I run into a priest now and then in say, the grocery store, but I don’t have an episode.

As for what happened to me. I had what is called ‘aversion therapy’. I would have a rubber band around my wrist and when I acted ‘feminine’ or played with girl’s toys, or something non-masculine, I was supposed to snap myself with it. (This started at about 8). If I didn’t do it, my handlers were told to do it. Also, I would be shown videos and have loud scary noises played with pictures of girl/pink/non masculine things. It would alternate from ‘boy’ things to ‘girl’ things, with good feedback from boy things, and bad feedback from girl things.

When I was a teen I would have to listen to tapes in my sleep about ‘How great it is to be a man’ and ‘How great it will be to sleep with my wife’.

All of this was done by therapists who are a part of NARTH. In the end, I don’t think the people who treated me were actually psychologists, I’m not sure what their credentials were, outside of having read Dr Nicolosi’s work (The guy who runs NARTH).

 

[Numinous]

Wow. Unfortunately, we are now straying into territory about which I am in no way qualified to respond. Truly, I do not know what to say. May I therefore pray for you?

 

[pathia]

Wow. Unfortunately, we are now straying into territory about which I am in no way qualified to respond. Truly, I do not know what to say. May I therefore pray for you?

I never turn down prayers. I am doing much much better. Keep in mind, much of this is way in the past at this point. It is just some people come on here and seem to advocate ‘fixing’ children. And I only have to say, ‘Whoa, wait a moment!’

 

[Laborer]

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15997612
What’s good for the goose…

 

[pathia]

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15997612
What’s good for the goose…

The difference being if someone has a perfectly good limb amputated, they are now a greater liability on society as they are qualified as ‘disabled’. They will have to adjust and change their career paths, if they can work at all anymore.

A person that swaps genders is not disabled by the surgery. The lack of breasts or lack of a penis in no way hinders or alters anyone’s ability to do the work they did before they had the operation.

Just because a condition seems to have the same symptoms, does not automatically make the solution to it identical.

 

[Laborer]

So is mutilation acceptable only if the result isn’t physical disability, even though it relieves their mental anguish?

 

[pathia]

So is mutilation acceptable only if the result isn’t physical disability, even though it relieves their mental anguish?

You don’t have to use ‘their’. I am one of these people, you can speak directly at me if you wish. You are using a loaded question, I don’t agree with the premise of your wording. It is akin to ‘So have you stopped beating your wife’? There is no yes or no answer, because you have loaded the question.

Furthermore, it’s not amputation. Nothing is discarded, it is reshaped, it is more like plastic surgery then amputation, which further negates the comparison.

We do this on children that are born with ambiguous genitals, I am one of those. It is considered the standard treatment and CONDONED by the Church. Why is OK in one case, while bad in another?

 

[aspawloski4th]

You don’t have to use ‘their’. I am one of these people, you can speak directly at me if you wish. You are using a loaded question, I don’t agree with the premise of your wording. It is akin to ‘So have you stopped beating your wife’? There is no yes or no answer, because you have loaded the question.

Furthermore, it’s not amputation. Nothing is discarded, it is reshaped, it is more like plastic surgery then amputation, which further negates the comparison.

We do this on children that are born with ambiguous genitals, I am one of those. It is considered the standard treatment and CONDONED by the Church. Why is OK in one case, while bad in another?

Sounds like to me, because we want more males.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

Priests and churches in general trigger psychiatric episodes in me, so…I don’t know how I would do so in a catholic situation. I doubt it would be helpful for my reintegration into Christianity if I had a episode of insanity in the middle of a mass. My scars from religious based therapy are so deep in my body, I cannot control them. I try so hard, but it’s like I turn into this other person. My mind pulls back and ‘away’ and I have no concept of self of self preservation. Thankfully I am not violent to others, only myself.

That is why I am on places like this forum, visual contact is the most likely trigger, also I am here, on the other side of a screen. If I have an attack, no one here knows, or will be troubled by having to witness my failures as a human.

Oh, and before anyone asks, yes, I have had exorcisms, I’ve heard all the jokes about young priest and old priest If you can’t make light of yourself, who is one to do so to another?

Pathia,

After reading your posts and doing some light reading on what it means to be transgender, I have to say that I’m embarrassed at my lack of understanding to date on the issue. I read the life story of an individual who seems to have gone through the same kinds of things you have and I was touched by her story.

I could never know truly what your life has been like. I feel like just giving you a big hug and telling you that no matter who you are, you deserve respect and love. I’m sorry to hear that you’ve had such negative experiences with Christianity and those who profess it.

You obviously have a difficult situation to deal with and I wish you happiness and peace. This seems to be a difficult road for you to travel and you shouldn’t have to go down it alone. I hope and pray that you will get the support and validation you need.

Let me say again…you are worthy, worthy of love and respect. I could adopt you into my family if I didn’t already have 5 coming into it soon. Are there some links that you would recommend I read to learn more about this issue?

By the way, what’s this about exorcisms?

Peace…

MW

 

[kelicious]

To be honest, I think the visuals are really important. I have no issues with talking to priests here, or on the phone, or in plainsclothing. I mean, I run into a priest now and then in say, the grocery store, but I don’t have an episode.

As for what happened to me. I had what is called ‘aversion therapy’. I would have a rubber band around my wrist and when I acted ‘feminine’ or played with girl’s toys, or something non-masculine, I was supposed to snap myself with it. (This started at about 8). If I didn’t do it, my handlers were told to do it. Also, I would be shown videos and have loud scary noises played with pictures of girl/pink/non masculine things. It would alternate from ‘boy’ things to ‘girl’ things, with good feedback from boy things, and bad feedback from girl things.

When I was a teen I would have to listen to tapes in my sleep about ‘How great it is to be a man’ and ‘How great it will be to sleep with my wife’.

All of this was done by therapists who are a part of NARTH. In the end, I don’t think the people who treated me were actually psychologists, I’m not sure what their credentials were, outside of having read Dr Nicolosi’s work (The guy who runs NARTH).

Wow. And I thought my childhood was horrid in regards to dealing with gender expression. I’m sorry. I wish there were some way I could help you with more than just words. As it is, I already have two sister T’s moving in with me later this year and my house is full.

See my profile for a web forum I run for transgender people. We’re a tight-knit, caring group. You’ll find much support there by good people, some in very similar situations.

 

[pathia]

Let me say again…you are worthy, worthy of love and respect. I could adopt you into my family if I didn’t already have 5 coming into it soon. Are there some links that you would recommend I read to learn more about this issue?

By the way, what’s this about exorcisms?

Peace…

MW

I’m not an expert on anything other than my own experience I must confess. I’m more one to read a good fantasy series (escapism!) in my spare time than any trans literature. Some of the others here might be able to better provide informational links.

The main issue is simply that there are only two sides to the issue, completely counter to each other. One side says we’re sick psychopaths that should be medicated and locked away (though they may use kinder language than that) and the other side says we are legitimate and should be allowed to do what we do. There really isn’t room for a middle ground, which is why it is such a complicated issue.

I was part of a pentecostal church, that’s where the exorcisms happened. I really don’t like to talk about them. I do wish to write a book some day, maybe I will bite my lip and put it in there.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

I’m not an expert on anything other than my own experience I must confess. I’m more one to read a good fantasy series (escapism!) in my spare time than any trans literature. Some of the others here might be able to better provide informational links.

The main issue is simply that there are only two sides to the issue, completely counter to each other. One side says we’re sick psychopaths that should be medicated and locked away (though they may use kinder language than that) and the other side says we are legitimate and should be allowed to do what we do. There really isn’t room for a middle ground, which is why it is such a complicated issue.

I was part of a pentecostal church, that’s where the exorcisms happened. I really don’t like to talk about them. I do wish to write a book some day, maybe I will bite my lip and put it in there.

Thanks for the information and God bless.

 

[pathia]

Thanks for the information and God bless.

What kind of information would you want? There are several sorts of categories, I guess you could say. There’s the science, there’s books on how families can cope, there’s books on stories of folks lives (The kind I might write).

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

What kind of information would you want? There are several sorts of categories, I guess you could say. There’s the science, there’s books on how families can cope, there’s books on stories of folks lives (The kind I might write).

I have to say that I slept during biology and health , so I’m interested in the scientific aspect of gender issues. I admit it’s embarassing, but when everyone talks about XX, XY, XXY chromosomes, mixed body parts, etc. I’m pretty lost. From there I would like to move on to the effect that it has on people that are dealing with these complex issues.

I have to tell you that when I read one person’s story I was speechless. The emotional toll it had on her, the cultural stigma attached and the unloving, sometimes violent way that she was treated astounded me. I just didn’t know that there were people who dealt with this kind of life. In her case, she was born a male, felt like a female trapped in a man’s body and so had a sex change operation (a transsexual MTF, I suppose).

There seem to be so many complex issues and definitions that it’s mind-boggling to me. So, I guess I’m looking for the “Dummies Guide To Gender Identity”, I suppose. I hope my understanding and questions are not offensive. I don’t intend them to be. I’m just surprised that I knew enough about anatomy and reproduction to have kids

Thanks again.

 

[pathia]

I have to say that I slept during biology and health , so I’m interested in the scientific aspect of gender issues. I admit it’s embarassing, but when everyone talks about XX, XY, XXY chromosomes, mixed body parts, etc. I’m pretty lost. From there I would like to move on to the effect that it has on people that are dealing with these complex issues.

I have to tell you that when I read one person’s story I was speechless. The emotional toll it had on her, the cultural stigma attached and the unloving, sometimes violent way that she was treated astounded me. I just didn’t know that there were people who dealt with this kind of life. In her case, she was born a male, felt like a female trapped in a man’s body and so had a sex change operation (a transsexual MTF, I suppose).

There seem to be so many complex issues and definitions that it’s mind-boggling to me. So, I guess I’m looking for the “Dummies Guide To Gender Identity”, I suppose. I hope my understanding and questions are not offensive. I don’t intend them to be. I’m just surprised that I knew enough about anatomy and reproduction to have kids

Thanks again.

If you’re asking how XX/XY/XXY mosaicism happens? Well, honestly, they have no idea. There are theories, but no actual solid reports of WHY.

One guess is that my mother’s egg was XX, or my fathers sperm was XY, instead of just X or just Y. There is also the possibility that two sperm entered one egg, a X and a Y, separately. There is also the chance that when I was very early in development only 2-8cells or so, at some point one of my X chromosome duplicated itself accidentally and that perpetuated.

Keep in mind ALL of those are completely possible, but it’s impossible to say WHICH happened to me, someone would have had to be observing my conception and cell division within the first day of my life to figure out which one occurred.

As for your ignorance, it really isn’t surpising. Transsexuals are about 1/10000 of the population, intersexed are about 1/1000-1/5000 of the population (It depends on how you define it, how many there are). So, chances are you never knew any one of those one individuals intimately. You could even know someone that is trans or intersex, but they have adapted well enough you can’t tell, unless someone discusses their medical past.

I do not talk like this at say work, no one knows there. It’s not their business an di doubt they’d WANT to hear, we’re there to work, not discuss morality and biology’s effect on it.

It’s one of the ‘magical’ aspects. It’s easier to discuss things with strangers you’ll never meet and who will never know you, outside of a forum.