K
Kei
Guest
Is translating divorce papers complicit in divorce?
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E
exnihilo
Guest
Translating them from one language to another? What is the context and purpose of the translation?
T
thistle
Guest
How could you possibly come to such a conclusion?? Of course it would not be complicit in a divorce.
M
Maximilian75
Guest
Why not? if the divorce cannot go on without ths translation, wouldnt translating these documents allow the divorce to occur? I’m just playing Devil’s Advocate.
H
Hereiam
Guest
No, but fear of such matters is probably a sign of being scrupulous!
T
thistle
Guest
"Maximilian751m
Why not? if the divorce cannot go on without ths translation, wouldnt translating these documents allow the divorce to occur? I’m just playing Devil’s Advocate.
Frankly, that is ridiculous.
Why not? if the divorce cannot go on without ths translation, wouldnt translating these documents allow the divorce to occur? I’m just playing Devil’s Advocate.
Frankly, that is ridiculous.
P
phil19034
Guest
No.
Additionally, divorce itself (even though a sin) is not always forbidden. There are reasons why a separatation can be necessary.
It is “divorce and remarriage without an annulment” that is forbidden.
Additionally, divorce itself (even though a sin) is not always forbidden. There are reasons why a separatation can be necessary.
It is “divorce and remarriage without an annulment” that is forbidden.
K
Kei
Guest
I thought so, just wanted to check with others to make sure. I don’t think the divorce is hindered by the translation, but let’s talk about if it were.
Would it then be complicit?
Would it then be complicit?
M
Maximilian75
Guest
I now see what Phil has said below. That makes sense.
X
Xanthippe_Voorhees
Guest
No
Divorce is not always a sin so aiding with one in a minor capacity is not
Divorce is not always a sin so aiding with one in a minor capacity is not
Tis_Bearself
Patron
From the “Canon Law Made Easy” website (section on annulments):
1.Is a divorced person automatically excommunicated from the Church?
As a civil divorce in and of itself does not come between the divorced person and the sacraments, then it’s not a problem for the translator, court staff, etc. who are not otherwise personally involved in the marriage of the divorced person. The person may well be planning to seek an annulment, in which case the civil divorce is a necessary step, or they may have some personal situation like spousal abuse for all you know, in which case the divorce would probably not be seen as sinful if it’s for self-protection. Since you don’t have any knowledge of any of this, not being personally involved, it’s not your issue to worry about.No. Obtaining a civil divorce is a function of the civil law and civil courts, and has little relevance in canon law. The church recognizes that a civil divorce may be a necessary step to determine civil, legal, custodial and financial matters resulting from the civil termination of a marriage. Thus a divorced Catholic is not “excommunicated.” As long as you have not remarried, you are free to receive the sacraments within the Church. Without having received a declaration of nullity, the Church does not recognize the civil divorce granted by the state, and still considers you married to your spouse – even if you are no longer living with him or her. Consequently, without a canonical declaration of nullity you are not free to remarry. If you do remarry civilly or outside the Church, you are required to refrain from receiving the sacraments until you get your situation regularized.
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E
exnihilo
Guest
No it isn’t ridiculous. If something is evil then this could be direct, material cooperation with evil. What if this was translating consent papers for an abortion? Surely you can see how that would be evil?"Maximilian751m
Why not? if the divorce cannot go on without ths translation, wouldnt translating these documents allow the divorce to occur? I’m just playing Devil’s Advocate.
Frankly, that is ridiculous.
T
thistle
Guest
Yes it is ridiculous and you are digressing because you know you are wrong. It is NOT a sin of any kind to translate divorce papers.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
It’s “ridiculous” because the divorce itself is not inherently evil like an abortion would be.If something is evil then this could be direct, material cooperation with evil.
People could be getting divorced for bad reasons, good (in the eyes of the Church) reasons, or for the same reasons they would later seek an annulment (for example, your spouse refused to ever have relations with you).
The translator and other staff have no insight into why people might be seeking a divorce, especially since many divorces are no-fault and there will not be any sort of discussion of reasons. Therefore, they cannot be complicit in evil when they have no idea if there’s any evil here or not.
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exnihilo
Guest
It hasn’t been specified what the context of the translation is. People are assuming.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
Divorce papers are legal papers. Unless you are the personal friend or relative of the couple, or “other woman/ other man” in the divorce, you wouldn’t know the “context” and it would be none of your business.
If you do happen to be the personal friend, relative, other lover etc. of one of the divorcing people, then your involvement overall in this divorce likely goes beyond just translating some legal papers and you need to look at the whole situation and everything you are doing to see if it’s a sin or not. And if in doubt, talk to a priest.
If you do happen to be the personal friend, relative, other lover etc. of one of the divorcing people, then your involvement overall in this divorce likely goes beyond just translating some legal papers and you need to look at the whole situation and everything you are doing to see if it’s a sin or not. And if in doubt, talk to a priest.
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casslean
Guest
Divorce isn’t an objective evil. I practice family law and helped people obtain divorces all the time before returning to school. The canon law provisions that support my ability to do so without falling afoul of the church. I also consulted a canon lawyer and a number of priests before continuing in this work, and was advised that so long as I did not counsel divorce frivolously and did all in my power to ensure all had been done to preserve the marriage (which is also an ethical obligation of my profession), then I was not running afoul of the church by helping people obtain divorces.
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exnihilo
Guest
Divorce is always a privation and from that point of view an evil. I do agree that divorce is not always wrong in every situation. But divorce being not always wrong does not mean that one can never be committing an evil act in helping a divorce.
In all moral situations if we materially or formally cooperate with evil then we have participated in sin. For instance doing business with a company that promotes same sex marriage is easily at least remote, material cooperation with evil. It is a reality of modern life that we will be materially cooperating with evil. That makes us to some extent complicit in the evil. Moral theology doesn’t say we must avoid any cooperation. But it doesn’t let us ignore our role either.
I don’t disagree that generally speaking a Catholic can participate in a divorce. But that doesn’t mean a Catholic can participate in every divorce. Particular circumstances do come into play.
In all moral situations if we materially or formally cooperate with evil then we have participated in sin. For instance doing business with a company that promotes same sex marriage is easily at least remote, material cooperation with evil. It is a reality of modern life that we will be materially cooperating with evil. That makes us to some extent complicit in the evil. Moral theology doesn’t say we must avoid any cooperation. But it doesn’t let us ignore our role either.
I don’t disagree that generally speaking a Catholic can participate in a divorce. But that doesn’t mean a Catholic can participate in every divorce. Particular circumstances do come into play.
R
runningdude
Guest
No. It is a neutral service.
Divorce within a valid marriage (but not remarriage to another) can even be justified within Canon Law for grave cause. The translator provides a vital service in helping one or both parties discern whether grave cause exists.
Divorce within a valid marriage (but not remarriage to another) can even be justified within Canon Law for grave cause. The translator provides a vital service in helping one or both parties discern whether grave cause exists.
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casslean
Guest
The difficulty is, you were drawing a parallel between translating documents for a divorce and translating documents for an abortion. Abortion is an objectively evil act; divorce is not. Therefore, in the latter you can start from the presumption that it is not sinful to participate, unless those particular circumstances exist that would rebut that presumption.I don’t disagree that generally speaking a Catholic can participate in a divorce. But that doesn’t mean a Catholic can participate in every divorce. Particular circumstances do come into play.
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