Is U.S. immigration policy "broke"?

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That’s the other part of the law that’s “broke” There is no such thing as an anchor baby in Mexico.

How come no one ever seems to mention that Mexico with its endemic and typically unchallenged corruption is the problem? Why are her citizens risking and losing their lives to leave the nation of their birth - the nation they love? US law is not compassionate - it is enabling corruption and misery to flourish next door.
This is the problem I see, that Mexico’s political and economic problems are kicked across the border for the U.S. to solve. The manifestation of the Mexican problems is the massive influx of illegal aliens.

This is my point. Why aren’t the Bishops of Mexico and the U.S. putting the spotlight on Mexico, where the immigration problem originates?

The special problem of immigration from Mexico is the long, previously open border, where tens of millions of people have treated the border as mere dirt.

The people coming to the U.S. are Mexican nationals. The way I see it, the Mexican government has a responsibility to them, even here in the U.S., since they retain Mexican citizenship even when they are here. Why isn’t Mexico being held accountable for these people?
 
I believe that part of the problem is that there is no clear cut policy. Lots of politics, but not a lot of clarity.

DGB
This is what a liberal talk show host told me when I called into a local call-in show on public television – there’s no clear policy.

Policy is not the issue, is it? We have immigration laws, a naturalization process, etc. why isn’t this clear?
 
If you wish to go back to the original analogy, then you need to actually use the original analogy. Illegal immigrants = felons and letting illegal immigrants stay in the US due to a minor child who is a citizen = letting a felon out of prison due to a minor child. That’s the original analogy.

But, let’s go with your modified one. Now we are dealing with illegal immigrants = people who are imprisoned versus people who are simply let off with a warning, fined, given non-prison punishments, given time served, or put on probation. Mind explaining how you came to the conclusion that being in this country illegally = an offense that merits prison versus one of the punishments I listed above; especially since our immigration policy doesn’t actually support the view that being here illegally is in itself an offense that merits prison.
Oh my gosh - - Old Catholic Guy! It is an analogy - - it is a comparison. If the state is compelled by the rule of law, to separate a parent from a child, what should we do? Accept, that because of the rule of law, sometimes that is unavoidable? Or say, “oh no, we can never separate members of a family”. So, never mind.

Here another analogy, Old Catholic Guy! What if a parent is enlisted in the military, and has to go serve overseas? Then that would break up the family, so no, we can’t have that! Just forget it - - never mind! Forget the law and forget commitments and personal responsibility?
 
Whoa! You missed the point that I came to your country on a TN VISA. This is a Visa for professionals needed in your country. Are you suggesting I should have went to an area of need? I am a registered nurse with a masters level. Your country was in a severe nursing shortage (and still is). I could have went to ANY state and found a need.

My husband is American. After living in Canada, he retired and we decided to come the USA. I take much offense at you telling me to stay in my own country and fix my own problems.

By the way, are you aware that Canada has statistically had a larger flow of immigrants to the Canada than any other country in the world. I’ve witnessed the immigration into Canada first hand also, as my husband was immigrating there from the USA many years before I immigrated to the USA from Canada.
God Bless
Many posts in this thread are becoming very personal, which does not address the question I originally asked: What is broken about the laws of the U.S.? Tell me exactly what laws are broken and how?

My family immigrated here, so I am not anti-immigrant. My question was and still is, what law is broken? I want chapter and verse?

I haven’t yet seen a single post that gives a technical, legal argument about what law is “broken” i.e. is impossible or contradictory or something like that.

The truth is, NOTHING is broken. Mexican nationals just don’t like the U.S. laws, and THAT’S a whole other thing.
 
I think the article mentions two reasons that the immigration system is broken. There are more reasons, I do not doubt.

I am not sure why you think Archbishop Gomez doesn’t want any immigration controls. He is saying that the current laws are not working well, and they need to be overhauled.
I am not so naive to ignore that US laws are constantly overhauled for special interests. The Affordable Health Care Act was written by special interest groups, for example. The legislators didn’t even read it, before voting on it.

again, it seems that Arch. Gomez and the US Bishops are just using tour de force arguments “to make it happen.”’

I might add that the agriculture excuse for allowing temporary workers from Mexico is absurd. We have already 11.2 admitted illegal aliens from Mexico AND THE FIELDS STILL WENT UNHARVESTED in two souther states (allegedly). This argument is vacuous – be aware of the lies.
 
Arghhhh! Why do citizens not want to do the work? Because labor prices are artificially low due to a supply of people willing to work under the table for a very low wage. Also, if the undocumented workers weren’t here, I bet farmers would be more willing to do the paperwork necessary to get them here legally. I grew up in an agricultural area. All the kids would pick strawberries, raspberries, etc. for the summer to make some money. (I don’t know if they still do). I recall seeing families of Asian immigrants (I believe Vietnamese) come in and pick, and oh boy - - could they work fast!
We have 11.2 million Mexican nationals in the U.S. and the fields were still going unharvested. This argument is vacuous – it is contrived, it is a smoke screen argument.
 
No, not broken…

All it will take is robust, fair and just enforcement of existing law and control of our borders. When this begins, immigration problems will cease to exist in a very short time.
I hardly think so. As soon as there is one version of immigration reform, people will be trying to get around it before the ink is dry on it.
 
This is the problem I see, that Mexico’s political and economic problems are kicked across the border for the U.S. to solve. The manifestation of the Mexican problems is the massive influx of illegal aliens.

This is my point. Why aren’t the Bishops of Mexico and the U.S. putting the spotlight on Mexico, where the immigration problem originates?

The special problem of immigration from Mexico is the long, previously open border, where tens of millions of people have treated the border as mere dirt.

The people coming to the U.S. are Mexican nationals. The way I see it, the Mexican government has a responsibility to them, even here in the U.S., since they retain Mexican citizenship even when they are here. Why isn’t Mexico being held accountable for these people?
Probably because the immigration problem has been created by the US foreign policy (NAFTA and drug war)
npr.org/2013/12/26/257255787/wave-of-illegal-immigrants-gains-speed-after-nafta
I am not so naive to ignore that US laws are constantly overhauled for special interests. The Affordable Health Care Act was written by special interest groups, for example. The legislators didn’t even read it, before voting on it.

again, it seems that Arch. Gomez and the US Bishops are just using tour de force arguments “to make it happen.”’

I might add that the agriculture excuse for allowing temporary workers from Mexico is absurd. We have already 11.2 admitted illegal aliens from Mexico AND THE FIELDS STILL WENT UNHARVESTED in two souther states (allegedly). This argument is vacuous – be aware of the lies.
That’s due to record deportations by the Obama Administration which broke records set by… the Obama Administration.
pbs.org/newshour/rundown/obama-administration-tops-its-own-deportation-record/
 
Oh my gosh - - Old Catholic Guy! It is an analogy - - it is a comparison. If the state is compelled by the rule of law, to separate a parent from a child, what should we do? Accept, that because of the rule of law, sometimes that is unavoidable? Or say, “oh no, we can never separate members of a family”. So, never mind.

Here another analogy, Old Catholic Guy! What if a parent is enlisted in the military, and has to go serve overseas? Then that would break up the family, so no, we can’t have that! Just forget it - - never mind! Forget the law and forget commitments and personal responsibility?
-“Oh my gosh OCG! We’re just comparing illegal immigrants to rapists, murderers, kidnappers, and various other hardened criminals.”
-Unless you think a military deployment is for years on end with no ability to see your children I don’t think that analogy works either.
 
Yes - the immigration system is broke.

A lot of the students who come in on student visas take their knowledge out of the country because they aren’t allowed to stay and work for American companies in America.

So, does it make sense to train people who will use their knowledge at international firms to compete against American firms?

America has a lot of low-skill immigrants - which drives down wages and employment opportunities for low-skill natives. Remember, it’s in low-skill jobs where teenagers used to get their first experiences in the job market. Also, a lot of low-skill jobs are dangerous, but they used to pay decent enough wages/benefits so that a man could still live a lower middle class lifestyle. (Like meat packing and pork processing, etc). Natives stopped taking these jobs because they want a decent wage/benefits that employers aren’t required to give to illegals.

A lot of employers are choosing cheap immigrant labor over building up our middle class. That’s a huge problem. I would be willing to pay more for products if I knew that business owners were serious about building up the community, not just their own wallets.

So, when we talk about how God’s going to judge us for how we treat the immigrant, we also have to think about how God’s going to judge us for how we treat our native poor.

How are we treating people in our own house? We can’t even get that right. So, why would people expect immigrants to be treated well? Don’t misunderstand, it’s really not OK to exploit either group of people and our communities still lose. However, why is the government allowing more low-skilled people into the country when we can’t take care of the one’s we have?

Only the US Government could think that any of this makes sense.

Everyone knows that it’s not just Mexicans crossing our southern border, but OTM’s as well. It really won’t surprise most people if some of those OTM’s are jihadists. Everyone wants to play that the immigrant is just some poor worker, but I’m cynical (and realistic) enough to realize that people can fake their identities and pretend to be whoever would give them the most sympathy. When are we going to start getting real?

Also, it’s not just up to America to take in refugees from other countries. Countries like Mexico don’t feel obligated to reform their own countries because they know the US will take their disenfranchised people in. It’s codependent.

Furthermore, a lot of “immigrants” think that since amnesty happened once, it will happen again, so all they have to do is bide their time.

While we are a nation of immigrants, we are also a nation of laws. It’s really not too silly for American citizens to expect their government to follow their laws. It’s a basic expectation. We like to say that we aren’t a banana republic, but we certainly look like it these days precisely because we pick and choose what laws we are going to enforce and ignore.

My 2 cents - take it or leave it. 😎
 
Yes - the immigration system is broke.

A lot of the students who come in on student visas take their knowledge out of the country because they aren’t allowed to stay and work for American companies in America.

So, does it make sense to train people who will use their knowledge at international firms to compete against American firms?
It definitely is an issue that people who were educated at US universities cannot more easily become permanent residents.
America has a lot of low-skill immigrants - which drives down wages and employment opportunities for low-skill natives. Remember, it’s in low-skill jobs where teenagers used to get their first experiences in the job market. Also, a lot of low-skill jobs are dangerous, but they used to pay decent enough wages/benefits so that a man could still live a lower middle class lifestyle. (Like meat packing and pork processing, etc). Natives stopped taking these jobs because they want a decent wage/benefits that employers aren’t required to give to illegals.
http://www.dol.gov/minwage/images/chart-GDP-1930-to-2012.jpg

the minimum wage has been going down over time. Illegal immigrants do result in lowered wages and benefits in low skill jobs, not because they are low skill immigrants, but because that meat packing plant can easily get them deported if they complain.
A lot of employers are choosing cheap immigrant labor over building up our middle class. That’s a huge problem. I would be willing to pay more for products if I knew that business owners were serious about building up the community, not just their own wallets.
That’s the fault of Americans who want to lowest cost product and don’t care where it comes from.
So, when we talk about how God’s going to judge us for how we treat the immigrant, we also have to think about how God’s going to judge us for how we treat our native poor.
The US also treats those people rather poorly.
How are we treating people in our own house? We can’t even get that right. So, why would people expect immigrants to be treated well? Don’t misunderstand, it’s really not OK to exploit either group of people and our communities still lose. However, why is the government allowing more low-skilled people into the country when we can’t take care of the one’s we have?

Only the US Government could think that any of this makes sense.

Everyone knows that it’s not just Mexicans crossing our southern border, but OTM’s as well. It really won’t surprise most people if some of those OTM’s are jihadists. Everyone wants to play that the immigrant is just some poor worker, but I’m cynical (and realistic) enough to realize that people can fake their identities and pretend to be whoever would give them the most sympathy. When are we going to start getting real?
What is “OTM”?
Also, it’s not just up to America to take in refugees from other countries. Countries like Mexico don’t feel obligated to reform their own countries because they know the US will take their disenfranchised people in. It’s codependent.
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
“Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”
As we can see America clearly only wants well educated rich people who come from places where they already live in relative luxury.
Furthermore, a lot of “immigrants” think that since amnesty happened once, it will happen again, so all they have to do is bide their time.

While we are a nation of immigrants, we are also a nation of laws. It’s really not too silly for American citizens to expect their government to follow their laws. It’s a basic expectation. We like to say that we aren’t a banana republic, but we certainly look like it these days precisely because we pick and choose what laws we are going to enforce and ignore.

My 2 cents - take it or leave it. 😎
It is extremely difficult to immigrate to the US for people, if you neither have family ties here, have a country that has offered you a job or are from a golden country (Canada or EU) you can just forget it. Actually, if you are going on family reunification grounds and it isn’t a spouse or children you can probably forget about it for two decades and you might be able to start working through it (I think we have finally started processing F4 visas from the 1990s).
 
Anchor baby policy? Oh, you mean the Constitution and its various amendments. Yeah, automatic citizenship upon birth is such a horrible idea.:rolleyes:
Well, one thing we forget about the Constitution is that it was written with the possibility of amendment. Unfortunately, the amendment process is almost impossible in this day and age of partisanship. When the country was new, such a clause of birth made a lot more sense. On the other hand, it is worth noting, that many countries have this same right (like Mexico).
 
I have to say “yes” that our current immigration law does not meet the needs of American today. We have lost much of our production capacity and people who work are always a valuable resource. On top of that, I believe it to biased against the poor wanting to come here as opposed the professional class. This is a direct contradiction of Catholic social doctrine on preference for the poor.
 
Well, one thing we forget about the Constitution is that it was written with the possibility of amendment. Unfortunately, the amendment process is almost impossible in this day and age of partisanship. When the country was new, such a clause of birth made a lot more sense. On the other hand, it is worth noting, that many countries have this same right (like Mexico).
Partisanship today is actually no worse, and may be a degree better, than it was in the past. I personally think this is due to the relatively modern feeling that the political parties are really only different in name only.

As for Constitutional amendments being almost impossible to pass, I think that was the original intent.
 
-A child born on US territory is a citizen by the fact he or she was born on US territory. See the Constitution, its amendments, and case law regarding this. You’re trying to apply something aimed at non-citizens seeking citizenship to people who are already US citizens. It doesn’t work like that.
Perhaps the first most important thing to understand about national birthright is that there was no written national birthright rule applicable within the States prior to the year 1866. One will look in vain to find any national law on the subject prior to this year, or even any mention of the right to citizenship by birth under the United States Constitution.

The principle reason for this absence is that no power had been delegated to Congress to make anyone a citizen of a State. Prior to the 14th amendment citizens of the United States were strictly defined as a citizen of some State.

When steamships came along making it easier for more people to cross the Atlantic and with the arrival of trains, States begun to restrict citizenship via birth by excluding transient aliens or temporary sojourners. Thus, only those who intended to reside and pledge their allegiance to the State through State law could claim citizenship for their children.

Generally speaking, when an issue of aliens and citizenship went before the courts it meant some State had neglected to enact laws on the subject, thereby forcing the courts to adjudicate citizenship.

Conceivably, Congress could had from the beginning attempted to include a defined birthright rule under the laws of naturalization – whether due to place of birth or parentage – but would have found, just as the Thirty-Ninth Congress had discovered, to be no simple matter as individual States had differing opinions over who should, or should not, be its citizens.

As a rule, the nation considered only those patriotic immigrants who came here for the exclusive purpose to settling amongst us, bringing with them wealth, like habits and customs as those worthy to become part of our society. And more importantly, those willing to renounce all prior allegiances to their country of origin and swear fidelity to this one.

So what was to be the premise behind America’s first and only constitutional birthright declaration in the year 1866? Simply all children born to parents who owed no foreign allegiance were to be citizens of the United States – that is to say – not only must a child be born but born within the complete allegiance of the United States politically and not merely within its limits.

There could be no alternative as the United States abandoned the English tradition of “perpetual allegiance” for the principal of expatriation, and thus, children inherit the preexisting allegiance of their father because there is no creation of allegiance through birth alone for foreigners in the United States.

Under Sec. 1992 of U.S. Revised Statutes the same Congress who had adopted the Fourteenth Amendment, confirmed this principle: “All persons born in the United States and not subject to any foreign power, excluding Indians not taxed, are declared to be citizens of the United States.

Who are the subjects of a foreign power? Thomas Jefferson said “Aliens are the subjects of a foreign power.” Thus, the statute can be read as “All persons born in the United States who are not aliens, excluding Indians not taxed, are declared to be citizens of the United States.

Sen. Trumbull stated during the drafting of the above national birthright law that it was the goal to “make citizens of everybody born in the United States who owe allegiance to the United States,” and if “the negro or white man belonged to a foreign Government he would not be a citizen.” Obviously he did not have the English common law practice in mind since existing allegiance was largely irrelevant.

Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee (39th Congress), James F. Wilson of Iowa, added on March 1, 1866: “We must depend on the general law relating to subjects and citizens recognized by all nations for a definition, and that must lead us to the conclusion that every person born in the United States is a natural-born citizen of such States, except that of children born on our soil to temporary sojourners or representatives of foreign Governments.”

Additionally, Sen. Trumbull argued Indians could not be subject to the jurisdiction for the reason the United States deals with them through treaties. This is also exactly how the United States deals with aliens; it enters into treaties with other countries to define legal rights of their citizens while within the limits of the United States and vice versa.

Sen. Trumbull further added, “It cannot be said of any Indian who owes allegiance, partial allegiance if you please, to some other Government that he is ‘subject to the jurisdiction of the United States.’” Sen. Jacob Howard agreed: * concur entirely with the honorable Senator from Illinois [Trumbull], in holding that the word “jurisdiction,” as here employed, ought to be construed so as to imply a full and complete jurisdiction on the part of the United States, coextensive in all respects with the constitutional power of the United States, whether exercised by Congress, by the executive, or by the judicial department; that is to say, the same jurisdiction in extent and quality as applies to every citizen of the United States now.
This remark by Sen. Howard places this earlier comment of his on who is “subject to the jurisdiction thereof” into proper context: “This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons.”*
 
Aaron Sargent, a Representative from California during the Naturalization Act of 1870 debates said the Fourteenth Amendment’s citizenship clause was not a de-facto right for aliens to obtain citizenship. No one came forward to dispute this conclusion.

Perhaps because he was absolutely correct.
 
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