Is using animals for their fur moral or immoral?

[Lost_Wanderer]

I am pro life, period. I love humanity and fight passionately AGAINST ABORTION and I believe in human rights. I also believe in animal rights. Again, you create a false dichotomy and “either or” which is illogical to me. Why can’t I care about human and animal rights? I donate to the poor AND animal rights groups. And I make no apologies for loving God’s creatures. From the tone and tenor of your post here, you seem to have a very low opinion of animals or their feelings. You seem to not care about their treatment or dignity whatsoever. It is quite unfortunate.

Because as a Filipino, I have bigger problems to worry about than the welfare of my pets and my neighbor’s farm animals. Good for you that you have the luxury and the resources to support both causes but that’s not a privilege enjoyed by a lot of people here (including myself). The CCC teaches us that man takes more priority over animal. The dignity of man is founded on the belief that we are created in the image and likeness of God, even the command to treat animals decently is simply based to support that self-image that we are above animals. You think my cat cares about the rights of the rats and cockroaches it chases or the fish that it eats? It does not mean to attribute human characteristics to animals. That’s anthropomorphism. Plain and simple. I’d only go for a decent treatment of animals but that treatment does not cover acknowledging that they have human characteristics such as “feelings”.

On the other hand, that same importance regarding human dignity is what causes me to realize just how much of a dump this place is. Back at the university, I would walk out its gates only to be greeted by the sight of beggars and street urchins. The worst of all, I know I can’t do much to help them. Even giving them what they want hardly solves their plight. Most people here are desperate to go to where you are now sir or any other place that’s better. Sadly that includes me.

In an environment like this, where the human being himself is reduced to an animal, it really is impossible to care about anything lesser. That’s why you’ll find few animal rights groups here. We have problems just trying to get our own rights recognized and fulfilled.

 

[severus68]

So would I. But a problem arises: animals killing and eating one another could not have been caused by the Fall of Man, since these animals were here eat each other before man came into existence (unless you are an adherent of Young Earth Creationism, which I am not).

Since we believe God made everything, that God is good and would never create bad and cause violence, I believe God did not cause this. I know I will have the answer one day and in the meantime I have my view of things but do not really bother to ponder to much about this. I know about this Young Earth Creationism, laughed at first and then thought “Who knows?”

 

[severus68]

I dont know. I going shark diving when I get redeployed back to hawaii. Tiger sharks are awesome. we get a great white once in a while, but, california, cape horn, and australia have a monopoly on this breed.

I do like animals generally, abhor cruelty like finning but am terrified of crocs and big sharks. I have nightmares about them. They are awesome creatures.

 

[severus68]

Seeing as how cock fights are part of my culture and how many starving people here would slaughter any animal they can afford just so they could eat, then yes there is a dichotomy. If you have to choose between chaining a guard dog to keep out the many drug-addicted burglars or letting these punks break in to nab stuff just so they can maintain their habit, yes there is a dichotomy.

I don’t need to be a dog expert veterinarian to speak about my own nation’s dogs. Most dogs here bark at any stranger who comes within just a meter of the gate they’re chained to. I’ve been bitten by dogs I’ve tried to simply pet when I was a child. A house dog that doesn’t start barking at strangers is always a pampered pup that has had treatment and training way above the cost of your average Pinoy askal. Most dogs here are far from that. People here can’t afford either the time or the money to train their pets to behave.

Trust me, your American farms are sweet-smelling orchards compared to the pigsty that characterizes many Filipino “farms”. Care to compare the technology used by yours and mine? How about the income? At the very least, you guys wear decent head gear and gloves in your slaughterhouses. Most guys who work in our slaughterhouses are all cheap labor coolies who wear nothing but shorts. Some of them even use child labor.

You know there’s a reason why we’re called a Third World country. Most of our population does not enjoy the decent standard of living of your average American.

Besides, unlike human beings, pigs lack the capacity or the desire to smell nice.

Lechon is a festival dish. We only eat it on special occasions. That’s as little as you can get. You’d be better off blaming smoking and drinking. You’d see a lot of that being done every day, rich and poor alike.

I do feel bad about the poverty and suffering in your country. I would not presume to tell you how those problems can be solved.

However I do not understand how you can say for instance that cock fighting is part of your culture. While there might not be much resources to help animals why make cruelty part of your culture? Spirituality, decency, compassion does not only exist where there is wealth, comfort and a decent life.

One thing I know about is dogs. Dogs have a natural instinct to protect their families, human too. They do not have to be shackled. My dogs are loved and treated well and I know they would die to protect us although I would not want them too. I train my dogs with love and consistency, it does not take time or money. I am sorry you were bitten but really no one should pet a strange dog, something we teach our children.

God help and bless your country and everyone, humans and non humans.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I do feel bad about the poverty and suffering in your country. I would not presume to tell you how those problems can be solved.

I just don’t like it when animal rights activists bemoan our apathy towards animals when we’ve got bigger problems that haven’t even been solved. It’s even more insulting when these people talk as if we share the same decent standard of living as they do. My country’s been going to the dogs and all these folks care about is how we treat our dogs? How do these folks expect us to treat animals with respect when most of our population lives no better than they do?

However I do not understand how you can say for instance that cock fighting is part of your culture. While there might not be much resources to help animals why make cruelty part of your culture? Spirituality, decency, compassion does not only exist where there is wealth, comfort and a decent life.

Bullfighting has been a part of Spain’s culture yet animal rights activists haven’t abolished that. Cockfighting’s existed in the Philippines for hundreds of years. It’s a popular past time among the poor. I certainly didn’t make it part of my culture. It already was. You may be right about decency not needing money but that decency is only applicable to humans. Chickens are hardly human. Frankly I worry more about the idiots who gamble too much on sabong than whether or not which one of the birds is gonna end up a tinola.

One thing I know about is dogs. Dogs have a natural instinct to protect their families, human too. They do not have to be shackled. My dogs are loved and treated well and I know they would die to protect us although I would not want them too. I train my dogs with love and consistency, it does not take time or money. I am sorry you were bitten but really no one should pet a strange dog, something we teach our children.

I hardly have time to walk my dog. My family feeds it nothing but mixed table scraps (and mine’s not the only one that does this) because we can’t afford fancy dog food (in this country, any dog food is considered “fancy”/sosyal). Whenever a person we know but our dog doesn’t comes over it keeps barking at him/her even when I tell it to stop. It took me many summer visits to my aunt’s house just so one particularly violent dog of hers would stop snarling at me whenever it saw me.

On the other hand, I know my cousin has a really cute fat pooch who stays in the house and she doesn’t bark at anyone. However, is she pampered? Yes. Does she eat quality food? Most likely. Are they more well off than most Filipinos? Definitely.

I think I’ve seen enough to tell me the difference between the dogs here and the ones you have over there.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

cock fights are part of your culture? Nonsense. That’s a cop-out and you know it. And with your necessary guard dog business, here’s an idea: GIVE THE DOG A CHAIN THAT’S AT LEAST 8 FEET LONG so it can move and sleep! Give it a little cheap bed to sleep in! Pet it once in a while! Feed it twice a day and give it some care! Do you have to treat the dog like trash to keep it a guard dog? This might surprise you but we Americans have guard dogs AND we take care of them!

Seeing as how cock fights are part of my culture and how many starving people here would slaughter any animal they can afford just so they could eat, then yes there is a dichotomy. If you have to choose between chaining a guard dog to keep out the many drug-addicted burglars or letting these punks break in to nab stuff just so they can maintain their habit, yes there is a dichotomy.

Ah so you had a bad experience with a dog so now all dogs are evil. Gotcha! You don’t need to train a dog to behave and not rip someone’s face off. My family has had dogs for years. I have one now. I’ve rescued wild dogs. You’ll find petting them, feeding them, giving them a roof over their head and not starving them while chaining them to a slab with a one foot long chain will go a long way in taming them!
I don’t need to be a dog expert veterinarian to speak about my own nation’s dogs. Most dogs here bark at any stranger who comes within just a meter of the gate they’re chained to. I’ve been bitten by dogs I’ve tried to simply pet when I was a child. A house dog that doesn’t start barking at strangers is always a pampered pup that has had treatment and training way above the cost of your average Pinoy askal. Most dogs here are far from that. People here can’t afford either the time or the money to train their pets to behave.

I’ve been to YOUR country many times and spent time there, not in fancy hotels but with my wife’s family. I’ve been to Manila, Quezon City, Pangasinan, Ilocos, Tarlac, La Union, and Baguio as well as a few others like Manaog, etc. Have you ever been to MY COUNTRY? If you have indeed been to central California then my apologies and I’ll have egg on my face. But if you have NOT been to the Central Valley of California, then your statement is nonsense. You can’t compare my agriculture surroundings to yours since I suspect you’ve probably lived your whole life in the Philippines. I’m quite well-travelled and have been to BOTH!
Trust me, your American farms are sweet-smelling orchards compared to the pigsty that characterizes many Filipino “farms”. Care to compare the technology used by yours and mine? How about the income? At the very least, you guys wear decent head gear and gloves in your slaughterhouses. Most guys who work in our slaughterhouses are all cheap labor coolies who wear nothing but shorts. Some of them even use child labor.

**That can change. The people have to want it first. The people have to say enough’s enough to corruption in government, quasi-dictatorships, crooked barangay captains, filthy air with no standards, embezzlement, bribery, get a grip on terrorism and guerrillas, and stop looking to going to other countries to bring money in and start investing in the country itself. **
You know there’s a reason why we’re called a Third World country. Most of our population does not enjoy the decent standard of living of your average American.
** It’s hard to smell nice when folks throw you into a pen with slop and keep you there fattening you up with garbage to ultimately stab you and eat you, right? You know there are folks here, not myself, who keep pigs as pets interestingly enough. Wouldn’t be my first choice…**Besides, unlike human beings, pigs lack the capacity or the desire to smell nice.

Not as much smoking as drinking. I only had three San Miguel Lites last time. That’s one thing I think the Filipinos really nailed right—San Miguel. Cruelty-free and refreshing stuff! But honestly my wife’s family eats garbage. My wife is appauled at it. They eat like pigs and have a party for any reason they can think of! If they quit partying and put just 1/3 of the $$$ they spend in non-essential food into the bank, they’d be rich…
Lechon is a festival dish. We only eat it on special occasions. That’s as little as you can get. You’d be better off blaming smoking and drinking. You’d see a lot of that being done every day, rich and poor alike.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

cock fights are part of your culture? Nonsense. That’s a cop-out and you know it.

Uh no it isn’t. It’s a fact, not a cop-out. Chickens aren’t human, as I’ve said. I’d feel more sorry about the sad saps who lost in the betting.

And with your necessary guard dog business, here’s an idea: GIVE THE DOG A CHAIN THAT’S AT LEAST 8 FEET LONG so it can move and sleep! Give it a little cheap bed to sleep in! Pet it once in a while! Feed it twice a day and give it some care! Do you have to treat the dog like trash to keep it a guard dog? This might surprise you but we Americans have guard dogs AND we take care of them!

The cheapest bed we can give a dog is exactly the pens and cages you decry us of putting them in. You Americans take good care of your dogs because you have the money to. Why don’t you give us some for our dogs if you’re so charitable?

I’ve been to YOUR country many times and spent time there, not in fancy hotels but with my wife’s family. I’ve been to Manila, Quezon City, Pangasinan, Ilocos, Tarlac, La Union, and Baguio as well as a few others like Manaog, etc. Have you ever been to MY COUNTRY? If you have indeed been to central California then my apologies and I’ll have egg on my face. But if you have NOT been to the Central Valley of California, then your statement is nonsense. You can’t compare my agriculture surroundings to yours since I suspect you’ve probably lived your whole life in the Philippines. I’m quite well-travelled and have been to BOTH!

You haven’t seen everything. I live all the way down south. Most of the regions you’ve mentioned are in Luzon. That’s the neighborhood of the fancy capital. My toddler years were spent in Manila while the rest were spent both in Visayas and Mindanao. Heck all four of us, the children, were literally born across the country. I was born in Cebu. My brother and sister in Manila. Our youngest was born in Davao. My family traveled a lot before settling down (and still we went to our various hometowns during summer time and Christmas breaks). That’s the whole of my country and 22 years of my life.

So please, do not tell me I haven’t compared what I’ve seen to what I keep seeing on your imported commercials as well as the internet. Your farms are a haven compared to the ones we have. You guys at least own the land you’re tilling.

That can change. The people have to want it first. The people have to say enough’s enough to corruption in government, quasi-dictatorships, crooked barangay captains, filthy air with no standards, embezzlement, bribery, get a grip on terrorism and guerrillas, and stop looking to going to other countries to bring money in and start investing in the country itself.

You think I don’t want that? T_T It’s been my dream to see my country rise from the ashes just as Japan rose from the ashes of WWII.

I myself would rather travel for the sake of travel instead of ending up as another OFW but as things now stand, we have a long way to go. Your complaints about the way we treat our animals are not worth firing when our country can’t even treat our own people to the same standard of living as yours.

Not as much smoking as drinking. I only had three San Miguel Lites last time.

Oooh… I don’t know alcohol much but I’ve had schoolmates who might and they don’t actually like that stuff. Meh, that’s off-topic though.

It’s hard to smell nice when folks throw you into a pen with slop and keep you there fattening you up with garbage to ultimately stab you and eat you, right? You know there are folks here, not myself, who keep pigs as pets interestingly enough. Wouldn’t be my first choice…

Believe me, I once thought of owning a pig as a pet but in this country, the culture (and the low standard of living) ultimately makes them out as a source of food. Heck, you’ve no idea how even during times I’ve had cable TV, I get ticked off when my show gets interrupted by a commercial for pig’s feed/medicine. You want us to start treating our pigs nice and make them smell less like a really bad toilet? I suggest you worry about the economic conditions that causes us to be that cheap when treating our farm animals.

That’s one thing I think the Filipinos really nailed right—San Miguel. Cruelty-free and refreshing stuff! But honestly my wife’s family eats garbage. My wife is appauled at it. They eat like pigs and have a party for any reason they can think of! If they quit partying and put just 1/3 of the $$$ they spend in non-essential food into the bank, they’d be rich…

Ah, the whole addiction to celebration, well that’s definitely something I can’t defend. However, like I said before, there are plenty complaints you can fire against my country (and I’ve fired them myself) but the way we treat our animals is an insignificant one compared to how badly the masses of human beings are being treated here. How do you expect us to treat animals this way when we have enough on our plate just trying to treat our own people this way?

 

[severus68]

I just don’t like it when animal rights activists bemoan our apathy towards animals when we’ve got bigger problems that haven’t even been solved. It’s even more insulting when these people talk as if we share the same decent standard of living as they do. My country’s been going to the dogs and all these folks care about is how we treat our dogs? How do these folks expect us to treat animals with respect when most of our population lives no better than they do?

When I was young, we did not have much, our dogs were fed what we ate. They had love and they were fine.
Maybe I am lucky but my dogs seem to know family. I introduce good friends as friends and they appear to know. They have never bitten anyone. I have seen people hitting their dogs and the dogs still love them. I do not see why Filipino dogs should be different. I have and have had mongrels too, they are hardier and just as loving. I have also picked up strays.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

When I was young, we did not have much, our dogs were fed what we ate. They had love and they were fine.
Maybe I am lucky but my dogs seem to know family. I introduce good friends as friends and they appear to know. They have never bitten anyone. I have seen people hitting their dogs and the dogs still love them. I do not see why Filipino dogs should be different. I have and have had mongrels too, they are hardier and just as loving. I have also picked up strays.

Because, again, you have a generally better environment (not to mention more time and money) to treat them that way. C’mon, even your hobos wear more clothes than the beggars here.

Besides, anyone can argue that calling stuff like cockfighting “cruel” is misplaced sympathy given the way the animal kingdom is all about savagery, competition, and that Darwinism actually applies there. You are right to fear predators such as crocodiles and sharks (although I personally have a twisted fascination for any creature that’s closest to resembling vicious fantasy monsters). They don’t care about the “feelings” of the things they eat. Stuff like cock fights and bull fights could be just another fancy way to slaughter an animal for food. (In fact, you can say it might even a good way to test a farmer’s way of raising strong healthy beasts for the feasts.)

 

[severus68]

Because, again, you have a generally better environment (not to mention more time and money) to treat them that way. C’mon, even your hobos wear more clothes than the beggars here.

Besides, anyone can argue that calling stuff like cockfighting “cruel” is misplaced sympathy given the way the animal kingdom is all about savagery, competition, and that Darwinism actually applies there. You are right to fear predators such as crocodiles and sharks (although I personally have a twisted fascination for any creature that’s closest to resembling vicious fantasy monsters). They don’t care about the “feelings” of the things they eat. Stuff like cock fights and bull fights could be just another fancy way to slaughter an animal for food. (In fact, you can say it might even a good way to test a farmer’s way of raising strong healthy beasts for the feasts.)

If you are talking about the US, that is not fair. There are many poor in the US and the elements (cold, snow) are hard on the homeless. BTW I am not from the US but that’s not relevant.
We are supposed to be the most intelligent beings made in God’s image so why compare us to wild animals who kill to survive? I do not agree with “Might is right” and “Survival of the fittest”. We humans are supposed to take care of the needy of our own and the others of God’s creatures.
I too am fascinated by sharks and crocs but I do not watch documentaries of killing in the wild. I do however love horror films with monsters, vampires and werewolves, they are not real and no one and nothing is hurt. It is a harsh world but we do not have to make it worse and can try to make it better.

If you have to eat meat, at least kill the animal quickly and make it as painless as possible. Fighting animals who have no choice is cruel, evil and diminishes the people who do it. Bull fighting is no sport, it is about blood lust.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I think what you lack is EMPATHY. How would you like to be in the animal’s shoes? Let’s just take a deep breath for a minute and back down and think…would you like to live in a cage all day? I would hope the answer is “no.” Would you like to be chained to a wall with a chain so short you have to HANG to sleep? Again, I would sure hope the answer is “no.” Would you enjoy being kicked, mistreated, hit in the head? Hopefully not. Do you think it’s humane, and the key word is “humane” to torture animals and let them fight to the death? I think not.

Uh no it isn’t. It’s a fact, not a cop-out. Chickens aren’t human, as I’ve said. I’d feel more sorry about the sad saps who lost in the betting.

I don’t buy it. You can’t afford a cheap little dog bed? I’ve seen the way filipinos choose to spend money when I was there and I not all of it was on food and the necessities. If people wanted to spring for a few pesos to buy a cheap little bed and throw down some old clothes for the poor dog to sleep on, they would and could. And by the way, we Americans have sent PLENTY of money to the Philippines, right? We saved the Philippines from Japan, spent decades there building up that country, and we’ve sent billions in foreign aid that didn’t manage to get to the people often. Why would we continue down that road? My wife’s hometown of Baguio basically didn’t exist until the U.S. military came and built that entire city. It’s nothing but an American town abandoned and now lived in by filipinos just like Jeepnies are skeletons of America’s past there. Filipinos need to learn to be humane, American $$$$ won’t do it.
The cheapest bed we can give a dog is exactly the pens and cages you decry us of putting them in. You Americans take good care of your dogs because you have the money to. Why don’t you give us some for our dogs if you’re so charitable?

True enough. I’ve never been that far south. Never left Luzon and have no plans to ever do so. But you miss my point. Have I been to your country? YES. Have you been to mine? NO. Simple math. I know more about your land than you do mine. You were talking about SMELLS. Then you say you know what agricultural scents smell like in the Central Valley of California by watching movies and commercials!! :hypno:
You haven’t seen everything. I live all the way down south. Most of the regions you’ve mentioned are in Luzon. That’s the neighborhood of the fancy capital. My toddler years were spent in Manila while the rest were spent both in Visayas and Mindanao. Heck all four of us, the children, were literally born across the country. I was born in Cebu. My brother and sister in Manila. Our youngest was born in Davao. My family traveled a lot before settling down (and still we went to our various hometowns during summer time and Christmas breaks). That’s the whole of my country and 22 years of my life.

We choose to make our agricultural lands the way they are not because we’re rich but because of our expectations. Just like smog. We hate smog. And though we still have plenty left, over the years we have said “enough!” with smog and started emissions testing, have air quality index standards, and strict enforcement. The Philippines has everyone accepting this smog and shrugging their shoulders about it. There’s a difference. It’s not all $$$, it’s expectations and attitudes.
So please, do not tell me I haven’t compared what I’ve seen to what I keep seeing on your imported commercials as well as the internet. Your farms are a haven compared to the ones we have. You guys at least own the land you’re tilling.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Awesome post, severus; you express my thoughts exactly and I couldn’t say it better myself… I’m tired of the false dichotomies. And I’m tired of the justification that animals are wild and fierce and evil and so we can treat them like so much garbage also…

If you are talking about the US, that is not fair. There are many poor in the US and the elements (cold, snow) are hard on the homeless. BTW I am not from the US but that’s not relevant.
We are supposed to be the most intelligent beings made in God’s image so why compare us to wild animals who kill to survive? I do not agree with “Might is right” and “Survival of the fittest”. We humans are supposed to take care of the needy of our own and the others of God’s creatures.
I too am fascinated by sharks and crocs but I do not watch documentaries of killing in the wild. I do however love horror films with monsters, vampires and werewolves, they are not real and no one and nothing is hurt. It is a harsh world but we do not have to make it worse and can try to make it better.

If you have to eat meat, at least kill the animal quickly and make it as painless as possible. Fighting animals who have no choice is cruel, evil and diminishes the people who do it. Bull fighting is no sport, it is about blood lust.

 

[Young_Thinker]

Since we believe God made everything, that God is good and would never create bad and cause violence, I believe God did not cause this. I know I will have the answer one day and in the meantime I have my view of things but do not really bother to ponder to much about this. I know about this Young Earth Creationism, laughed at first and then thought “Who knows?”

Thank you for your response. It may be that Satan appeared on Earth far before man came into existence. And if evolution is really true rather than just appearing to be factual, I would be somewhat inclined to say that Satan, rather than God, created life (those Gnostics were probably right about something), or at least that the Devil took control of the world very early on.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I think what you lack is EMPATHY. How would you like to be in the animal’s shoes?

Again, more anthropomorphism. You cannot tell people to be in an animal’s shoes because people just simply aren’t animals. Putting a collar around a dog’s neck is perfectly fine. Doing so on a human sounds like something out of a sick hentai fantasy.

I don’t buy it. You can’t afford a cheap little dog bed? I’ve seen the way filipinos choose to spend money when I was there and I not all of it was on food and the necessities. If people wanted to spring for a few pesos to buy a cheap little bed and throw down some old clothes for the poor dog to sleep on, they would and could. And by the way, we Americans have sent PLENTY of money to the Philippines, right? We saved the Philippines from Japan, spent decades there building up that country, and we’ve sent billions in foreign aid that didn’t manage to get to the people often. Why would we continue down that road? My wife’s hometown of Baguio basically didn’t exist until the U.S. military came and built that entire city. It’s nothing but an American town abandoned and now lived in by filipinos just like Jeepnies are skeletons of America’s past there. Filipinos need to learn to be humane, American $$$$ won’t do it.

Some people can’t even afford enough food to eat. You do know most of the money sent here is spent on bigger things right? College. Gas. Bills. Taxes. Again, the CCC itself tells people that people take priority over animals. Even a middle-class Filipino such as myself hardly lives the suburban sweet life.

Besides, you guys claim to have sent money over here, why don’t you ask our nice big government with what they did with it?

True enough. I’ve never been that far south. Never left Luzon and have no plans to ever do so. But you miss my point. Have I been to your country? YES. Have you been to mine? NO. Simple math. I know more about your land than you do mine. You were talking about SMELLS. Then you say you know what agricultural scents smell like in the Central Valley of California by watching movies and commercials!! :hypno:

You’ve admitted it yourself that the way we treat our pigs is way more unsanitary than the way you treat yours. You guys make tons of facilities and your workers are well-paid. That’s a way cleaner environment than the pigsty over here.

We choose to make our agricultural lands the way they are not because we’re rich but because of our expectations. Just like smog. We hate smog. And though we still have plenty left, over the years we have said “enough!” with smog and started emissions testing, have air quality index standards, and strict enforcement. The Philippines has everyone accepting this smog and shrugging their shoulders about it. There’s a difference. It’s not all $$$, it’s expectations and attitudes.

I actually saw a place that did emissions testing and before. I use to participate in a service where you report vehicles that gave off too much smoke. What happened? Nothing much. Face the facts. My country is nothing like yours. It is worse. It’s a Third World work that has a long way to go and criticizing the way we treat our animals is deliberately ignoring that fact.

I repeat what I said. My country’s gone to the dogs and people want to criticize the way we treat our dogs?

 

[vsedriver]

Just avoid those stupid jackets that have the faux fur on the hood (most of that really is the dog and cat fur from these countries). I think its a sick world we live in and just think of the day when Jesus comes and no human nor animal will suffer anymore!

You can help by joining organizations like ASPCA, Humane Society of the United States, WSPSA (organization to stop cruelty for animals in other countriese). All these organizations are trying to advocate to stop this inhumane act.

it is illegal to label animal fur as faux fur, faux fur is just that, man made fabric. I’d avoid the HSUS if I were you.

 

[vsedriver]

There would be no world hunger if lands used for raising animals for meat are converted to growing grain and other food plants and excess grain etc is not destroyed but sent to the hungry.
Why make the exception for veal? Animals are not always killed “humanely” whether in a slaughterhouse or elsewhere.

This is another myth. Where do you think all that fertilizer comes from that grows all those crops.

world hunger is not due to lack of food but do to political control of food distribution. I really think people who say these things have no clue how farms are run.

 

[vsedriver]

The beef industry openly admits that there is an average of roughly 100 dead bovines in each patty…reason number 1,000,000 why I don’t eat the stuff…

that depends on where you buy your beef. I know my beef personally. My boss raises black angus. We purchase our beef from him. At best there might be two cows in my hamburger, but it is all pasture, free range beef.

 

[severus68]

This is another myth. Where do you think all that fertilizer comes from that grows all those crops.

world hunger is not due to lack of food but do to political control of food distribution. I really think people who say these things have no clue how farms are run.

Yes it is about food distribution too. Please reread my post. I responded to the post about killing more variety of animals to curtail world hunger. A myth? heard about the methane gas cattle emit and what it does or is that a myth too to you? I use organic fertilisers, not animal based and do not use chemical pesticides. I know about how farms are run. If everyone switched to organic grain, fruits, vegetables, perhaps the balance in nature will be made right. With economies of scale, the prices of organic produce and products will go down. It may remain higher than non organic stuff but think of the savings in medical bills.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

It’s not anthropomorphism. It’s called being humane. God did give us dominion over animals, as you love to remind us. Nobody is debating that. But does God give animals feelings and us a reponsibility to care for them in a humane way? Obviously. My cats in my house have empathy whether you want to believe that or not. When you’re sick, they sense it and come to you. When you’ve had a lousy day at work, it’s almost eerie how they rush over and sit on your lap, purr, and lick your hand. My dog, Cassie, follows me wherever I go and is so loyal, friendly, licks me all the time, and sleeps by our bed. My kitten that I rescued last summer who had been abandoned, she is so loving, so warm to my children, loves taking a nap on my daughter’s bed with her. She purrs like crazy and loves to play with my kids. My children adore playing with our pets. As a child growing up, I had cats, a dog, turtles, loved 'em all. My parents were always kind and caring to animals and when you treat an animal with love, the affection is returned ten fold by them. You like to paint them as worthless machines made by God to serve us and do our bidding. Well while we ARE superior to them in spirituality and intellect, God put them here for many reasons. And you might just consider that one of them is to love, enjoy, to give us comfort, and to make life richer. D

From a recent article I read…and I’ve read similar things countless times:

wise investment.

**According to a study by the Minnesota Stroke Institute that followed more than 4,000 cat owners over 10 years, owning a cat can dramatically reduce a person’s chance of dying from heart disease [source: Mundell]. Specifically, people who owned cats were 30 percent less likely to suffer a heart attack. **

No wonder hypertension and strokes abound in the Philippines!

Articles in the UK and US all support the same conclusions:
petside.com/the-sidewalk/news/how-pets-help-you-live-longer.php

Again, more anthropomorphism. You cannot tell people to be in an animal’s shoes because people just simply aren’t animals. Putting a collar around a dog’s neck is perfectly fine. Doing so on a human sounds like something out of a sick hentai fantasy.

Everyone can afford to feed some scraps to the dog. Take my last trip to the Philippines. Nobody would help the poor mother cat and her one kitten (the othes had been killed by cruel children). I asked my wife’s sister, “can I grab the chicken carcasses off the plate?” She said, “sure.” I picked off so much meat that it filled an entire huge bowl! The mother ate that meat so happily, it was touching. I picked that meat apart every night! My wife’s family is DIRT POOR but they leave meat all over and rice. My wife’s extended family are dirt poor and the same is true. I found filipinos to waste a lot of food. I also notice they spend huge amounts of pesos on food. Perhaps one could go to college if a few less fiestas were held!
Some people can’t even afford enough food to eat. You do know most of the money sent here is spent on bigger things right? College. Gas. Bills. Taxes. Again, the CCC itself tells people that people take priority over animals. Even a middle-class Filipino such as myself hardly lives the suburban sweet life.

**We don’t CLAIM to have spent billions on you guys, we DID and still do…your government and its corruption needs to be dealt with. When the people get fed up and are ready to do something about it, it’ll change. Filipinos are too easy going. It’s an observation I’ve always had. It’s a blessing and a curse. I hope you realize how much money the United States has pumped into the Philippines for not only improving the country, but helping with poverty and disaster relief. I think our $$$ contributions have always gone rather unappreciated, sadly. **
Besides, you guys claim to have sent money over here, why don’t you ask our nice big government with what they did with it?

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Well-paid? Most agricultural areas like mine have the highest unemployment in the country. Wages for agricultural workers are LOOOOOOW. Why do you think illegal Mexican immigrants are used to work on farms, pick fruit and nuts, and to do the hard labor? Sad fact of life here. Agriculture is a tough business with few rewards for the worker…
You’ve admitted it yourself that the way we treat our pigs is way more unsanitary than the way you treat yours. You guys make tons of facilities and your workers are well-paid. That’s a way cleaner environment than the pigsty over here.

**If each city started paying the police to go around and give citations to people who have emissions, things would change. The police is very lax in the Phils. And it’s too small. They need to get an aggressive police and city government presence on the roads, and nail these polluters. Also, do you realize that Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, and the other car companies REMOVE most smog devices for the Philippines before they even arrive? Our emissions are extremely strict in California and we’ve benefitted a lot from it! The Philippines doesn’t demand the car companies to comply because they don’t have aggressive standards. It has to start up top and the bureaucracy needs to follow through and give REAL penalties if you want to see a change. **
I actually saw a place that did emissions testing and before. I use to participate in a service where you report vehicles that gave off too much smoke. What happened? Nothing much. Face the facts. My country is nothing like yours. It is worse. It’s a Third World work that has a long way to go and criticizing the way we treat our animals is deliberately ignoring that fact.

And I’ll repeat what I said, only the people can make things change. And while they’re making life better for humans, do it for animals also. One thing at a time is unrealistic. It’s called multi-tasking. I do it everyday. And if I can do it, so can filipinos. Filipinos are some of the most INTELLIGENT and clever people I’ve ever met, no doubt!
I repeat what I said. My country’s gone to the dogs and people want to criticize the way we treat our dogs?