Is Usury still a sin?

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Because if it is, I suspect my credit card company is guilty of it.

33% interest rate is more than just a little debilitating. I got unemployed, got behind, and now I’m losing my behind.
 
Technically I believe it still is. It just has not been a focus for most of the last century or so.
 
Yes, lending money at interest (usury) is condemned in the Torah. This applied only to lending to members of the tribes of Israel. Christians should be more righteous than is demanded under the law so we should keep from lending at interest entirely.
What we are allowed to do is invest in a business venture: buying and selling of goods. This allows us to make money which may appear to have been lent at interest.

Matthew
 
Usury is a sin. Lending money out and collecting back to recover what would otherwise be lost through inflation as well as making a reasonable profit, is not. Usury is specifically tied to taking unfair advantage of someone in need. The Church itself takes out loans and pays back with interest.
 
Because if it is, I suspect my credit card company is guilty of it.

33% interest rate is more than just a little debilitating. I got unemployed, got behind, and now I’m losing my behind.
Why would you accept a credit card with a 33% interest rate?:confused:
 
Because if it is, I suspect my credit card company is guilty of it.

33% interest rate is more than just a little debilitating. I got unemployed, got behind, and now I’m losing my behind.
Wow, that is very high. Is there someway you can transfer that balance to a lower interest credit card? If not, maybe work out payment arrangements with the card company.

I was having a similar discussion with someone last night. I feel that credit card companys take advantage of us, charging such high interest rates. Shame on them. I’m working on paying off all of my credit cards, and one I’m done, I don’t want to have to deal with them any longer.
 
The entry on Urury in the Catholic Encyclopedia is quite long and pretty interesting. I suggest that people would do well to read it in its entirety, but several passages stood out to me. After covering some debate over interpretting scripture the entry noted:

“Nevertheless, the 12th canon of the First Council of Carthage (345) and the 36th canon of the Council of Aix (789) have declared it to be reprehensible even for laymen to make money by lending at interest. The canonical laws of the Middle Ages absolutely forbade the practice. This prohibition is contained in the Decree of Gratian, q. 3, C. IV, at the beginning, and c. 4, q. 4, C. IV; and in 1. 5, t. 19 of the Decretals, for example in chapters 2, 5, 7, 9, 10, and 13. These chapters order the profit so obtained to be restored; and Alexander III (c. 4, “Super eo”, eodem) declares that he has no power to dispense from the obligation. Chapters 1, 2, and 6, eodem, condemns the strategems to which even clerics resorted to evade the law of the general councils, and the Third of the Lateran (1179) and the Second of Lyons (1274) condemn usurers. In the Council of Vienne (1311) it was declared that if any person obstinately maintained that there was no sin in the practice of demanding interest, he should be punished as a heretic (see c. “Ex gravi”, unic. Clem., “De usuris”, V, 5).”

So, yes, it remains a moral sin. And, regarding its importance, the entry closes with this paragraph:

“Lending money at interest gives us the opportunity to exploit the passions or necessities of other men by compelling them to submit to ruinous conditions; men are robbed and left destitute under the pretext of charity. Such is the usury against which the Fathers of the Church have always protested, and which is universally condemned at the present day. Dr. Funk defined it as the abuse of a certain superiority at the expense of another man’s necessity; but in this description he points to the opportunity and the means which enable a man to commit the sin of usury, rather than the formal malice of the sin itself. It is in itself unjust extortion, or robbery. The sin is frequently committed. In some countries are found the exaction of interest at 30, 50, 100 percent and more. The evil is so great in India that we might expect legal provisions to fight against such ruinous abuse. The exorbitant charges of pawnbrokers for money lent on pledge, and, in some instances, of persons selling goods to be paid for by installments, are also instances of usury disguised under another name. As a remedy for the evil, respectable associations for mutual lending have been instituted, such as the banks known by the name of their founder, Raiffeisen, and help has been sought from legislators; but there is no general agreement as to the form which legislation on this subject should take.”

Which gets to the heart of the matter. It is the grave exploitation of the desperation of other human beings. Since we know that financial desperation leads to desperate acts (ex. financial desperation is a frequently reported causal factor in abortions) I would argue that the reasoning extended in then Cardinal Ratzinberger’s Doctrinal Note regarding the obligations of Catholics in public service and now Pope Benedict XVI’s SACRAMENTUM CARITATIS would apply. That is, I would take the controversal stance that Catholic politicians who voted for the bankruptcy bill in 2005, particularly those who voted to defeat amendments concerning exploitive and predatory lending practices, could reasonably be denied communion because of the public nature of their sin.

Best Regards
 
SoCalRC, I think I want to copy your post and mail them to all of the credit card companines that send me the “pre approved” offer letters all of the time. Of course, I will send it in the envelope that they send me, to make it “easier” to apply for their credit cards.
 
Because if it is, I suspect my credit card company is guilty of it.

33% interest rate is more than just a little debilitating. I got unemployed, got behind, and now I’m losing my behind.
I believe usury has always been a sin; however, as far as I understand, charging interest is not a sin. Lending is a service, because there is cost incurred upon the lender in terms of opportunity cost, and the interest is what you pay for that service. That said, when the interest become excessive, then yes, it does become usury, and is sinful, in my opinion.

There is a difference, though, between normal lending and taking advantage of someone in dire need. If someone is in dire need of sustenance, and another person charges him/her interest, then it would also be a sinful, in my opinion.
 
It is not only the Torah that forbade interest. So did most Christian writers–and pagan writers, for that matter.

In the Ecumenical Councils volume of Eerdman’s Patristic series NICENE AND POST-NICENE FATHERS, there is an excursus on usury.

It seems the first Christian theologian to make a distinction between sinful usury and lawful interest–a novelty–was none other than Jean Chauvin, better known as John Calvin.

The writer made the notable observation that there are countless Christians, Catholic and Protestant, might be risking their salvation on a teaching that originated in Calvinism.
 
It is not the mere act of charging interest that is morally flawed. Credit is extended by lenders as a convenience to customers and the ability to provide this convenience must be compensated for. It is a totally different story when one is forced to have to borrow with expectation of unreasonable remission.
 
It is not only the Torah that forbade interest. So did most Christian writers–and pagan writers, for that matter.

In the Ecumenical Councils volume of Eerdman’s Patristic series NICENE AND POST-NICENE FATHERS, there is an excursus on usury.

It seems the first Christian theologian to make a distinction between sinful usury and lawful interest–a novelty–was none other than Jean Chauvin, better known as John Calvin.

The writer made the notable observation that there are countless Christians, Catholic and Protestant, might be risking their salvation on a teaching that originated in Calvinism.
It really doesn’t matter if it started with John Calvin, either it is objectively it is a sin or it isn’t. Even Calvin could have made a proposal that was right, even if his other proposals were wrong. While there is reason to be conservative on a proposal, especially if an issue is still rather unclear, but if clear distinctions can be made, it might do well to give more leeway.

If anything, you can send a letter to the c.c. companies, but I doubt that’s going to be really effective – though why not do it with their envelopes. 😃 I find that funny. To a point it really cuts both ways. There is fault on the companies; there are others who get in the position where they can get themselves into trouble. I can have some sympathy for the poor, but there is a whole lot of the middle class getting themselves over-extended. If anything those who shouldn’t have gotten themselves into that position, make it even harder on those who really couldn’t help their position.

There is probably a need to cut down on the amount of interest on credit, especially if they are going to make it harder to get a bankruptcy. Hopefully that could cut down the money going into a sub-prime market, and cut down on the exploiters and exploited. That would not only seem more morally acceptable, but the economy is harmed by imprudent decisions.
 
I assume you are all aware your interest bearing deposits at banks are a form of lending money at interest. Let he who is without sin . . .
 
I assume you are all aware your interest bearing deposits at banks are a form of lending money at interest. Let he who is without sin . . .
But those are typically modest rates, often below the rate of inflation. See the entry I cited above. It is expoitive and predatory practices that the Church sees as the grave moral issue.

Best Regards
 
As long as the interest rate isn’t so high as to be uncharitable, I dont see how it could be a sin.
 
But those are typically modest rates, often below the rate of inflation. See the entry I cited above. It is expoitive and predatory practices that the Church sees as the grave moral issue.

Best Regards
The Torah, and others make no differenciation between levels of interest, whether one thousandth of one percent, or one thousand percent.

Charging interest is usuary.

Making a reasonable transaction handling charge is different, as is making a charge for indexation against inflation, which is a new concept following dishonest paper money.

You are allowed to hire out equipment to use, or property to occupation. That is how Islam gets around interest. The lender owns a portion of the house until the debt is payed, and so charges a portion of the rent. The portion owned by the lender varies as the debt is repaid. That might sound like cigarette paper logic, and that is a fair accusation.

A useful effect of this logic though is that it ties effective interest rates to reasonable rents. Thus it prevents excessive, or ‘usurious’ interest rates.
 
I would take the controversal stance that Catholic politicians who voted for the bankruptcy bill in 2005, particularly those who voted to defeat amendments concerning exploitive and predatory lending practices, could reasonably be denied communion because of the public nature of their sin.
:amen:
 
The Torah, and others make no differenciation between levels of interest, whether one thousandth of one percent, or one thousand percent.

Charging interest is usuary.
But I am Roman Catholic. I have Holy Scripture, Holy Tradition, and the Magisterium to rely on. When there are conflicts, I defer to the Magisterium. The current teaching of the Church is that it is predatory and exploitive practice that are sinful.

Note that although the Torah forbids charging interest, Jews did utilize the exemption of usuary laws given to them in early Christian states. The preponderance of Jewish philosophers have concluded that this was not sinful, since the society afforded no real alternatives for survival.

Best Regards
 
But I am Roman Catholic. I have Holy Scripture, Holy Tradition, and the Magisterium to rely on. When there are conflicts, I defer to the Magisterium. The current teaching of the Church is that it is predatory and exploitive practice that are sinful.

Note that although the Torah forbids charging interest, Jews did utilize the exemption of usuary laws given to them in early Christian states. The preponderance of Jewish philosophers have concluded that this was not sinful, since the society afforded no real alternatives for survival.

Best Regards
Did not Our Lord condemn those Pharisees, (Jews), who using their tradition, turned the Law of Moses, which He equated with the commandments of G_d, on its head.
The tradition of the Catholic church should be seen with caution.
Small ‘t’ mark you.
Where there is conflict, I defer to the GOSPEL, as should the Church.
 
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