Is Vatican II an apostate?

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cathman1

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I came across the site of www.the most holy family.comThey sound Catholic and I like them,but at the same time they seem to attack the vaticanII.
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 While I read in the teachings of the early fathers that salvation is only for those within the Faith, I believe the VaticanII teaches that there is also salvation in other sects.How do you reconcile these opposing teachings?

 Why is it that the Devotion to the Divine Mercy was supressed before the Vatican II council and was included in the Index of Forbidden Works,but was revived after tha Vatican II. Is it true that the Vatican II has significant changes?
 
cathman1 said:
While I read in the teachings of the early fathers that salvation is only for those within the Faith, I believe the VaticanII teaches that there is also salvation in other sects.
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That couldn’t be further from the truth. What you cite is called Feeneyism, and this was condemned as error by Pope Ven. Pius XII, a full 13 years before the council. Also, over half of the Doctors of the Church (and several of the Early Church Fathers) taught Baptism of Desire.
 
There is a misunderstanding there, salvation is found only through the Catholic Church, there is a chance that some who are ignorant of the Catholic Church are allowed through Christ to be saved. This would be by the Catholic Church as it is the teaching of Christ.

Most Holy Family Monastery is correct in its condemnation of bad things that Popes\Bishops have done. This in no way makes the Pope invalid but just shows that he is human and can make bad judgment calls\mistakes.

They have been addressed in many other threads but well addressed by Robert Sungenis
catholicintl.com/epologetics/articles/pastoral/sedevacantists.htm

God Bless
Scylla
 
scylla said:
There is a misunderstanding there, salvation is found only through the Catholic Church, there is a chance that some who are ignorant of the Catholic Church are allowed through Christ to be saved. This would be by the Catholic Church as it is the teaching of Christ.

Most Holy Family Monastery is correct in its condemnation of bad things that Popes\Bishops have done. This in no way makes the Pope invalid but just shows that he is human and can make bad judgment calls\mistakes.

They have been addressed in many other threads but well addressed by Robert Sungenis
catholicintl.com/epologetics/articles/pastoral/sedevacantists.htm

God Bless
Scylla
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Mr. Sungenis does have some fantastic articles that refute the claims of the Dimond brothers. Along with Mr. John Salza’s website www.scripturecatholic.com, this is my favorite apologetics website. Read through Mr. Sungenis’ debates, and you will find a vast amount of knowledge and wisdom.
 
Dear Cathman,

You voice valid concerns, and certainly there has been much controversy surrounding the Second Vatican Council. However, given that it was a pastoral council, it made no infallible declarations and did not change any previous Church doctrines. Let me do my best to answer the objections from the web site…
cathman1 said:
I came across the site of www.the most holy family.comThey sound Catholic and I like them,but at the same time they seem to attack the vaticanII.
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 While I read in the teachings of the early fathers that salvation is only for those within the Faith, I believe the VaticanII teaches that there is also salvation in other sects.How do you reconcile these opposing teachings?
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I believe what is being referred to here is the section in Lumen Gentium about the Catholic Church in relation to Protestant communities. The Apostolic Constitution says that the Church of Christ, the fullness of truth including the elements of salvation entrusted to her, subsists in the Catholic Church. This is to say that these redemptive elements forever endure in and reside in the Catholic Church. Surely there is no doubt that the Catholic Church is the one Church of God.

However, Protestant communities too contain elements of the truth. Examples include the belief in Jesus as Savior of the World and in scripture as the inspired Word of God, Thus, it is correct to say that the Church of Christ is present in these communities. They derive their value “from that fullness of grace and of truth which has been entrusted to the Catholic Church” (Lumen Gentium). Furthermore, since the truths that these communities possess derive from the Church of Christ, they are thus impelled towards union with the Catholic Church.

In short, interpreted correctly Lumen Gentium affirms the Catholic Church as the Church of God, and acknowledges that outside of the Church of Christ which subsists in the Catholic Church there is no salvation. Nonetheless, there are elements of truth which extend beyond the Church’s visible borders.

The Vatican’s document on this subject can be found at:
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20070629_responsa-quaestiones_en.html
Why is it that the Devotion to the Divine Mercy was supressed before the Vatican II council and was included in the Index of Forbidden Works,but was revived after tha Vatican II. Is it true that the Vatican II has significant changes?
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The devotion of the Chaplet of Divine Mercy was revealed by Our Lord to St. Faustina Kowalska.The Vatican originally pronounced her work Divine Mercy in My Soul to be heretical, most likely due to translation errors. His Holiness Pope John Paul II, when he was still Archbishop Karol Wojylta, ordered a new translation and sent it to the Vatican for re-evaluation. The Vatican found nothing heretical in the work, and eventually St. Faustina was canonized by Pope John Paul II.

I hope my answers provide some immediate relief, however meager, and that they encourage you to do your own research on this subject, always under the guidance of Prudence. I find your enthusiasm and humble search for knowledge admirable, and hope that you will persevere.

Peace of Our Lord be with you.
 
Markstorm said:
The devotion of the Chaplet of Divine Mercy was revealed by Our Lord to St. Faustina Kowalska.The Vatican originally pronounced her work Divine Mercy in My Soul to be heretical, most likely due to translation errors. His Holiness Pope John Paul II, when he was still Archbishop Karol Wojylta, ordered a new translation and sent it to the Vatican for re-evaluation. The Vatican found nothing heretical in the work, and eventually St. Faustina was canonized by Pope John Paul II.
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What you say is quite true AND not unusual in the case of locutions and apparitions. The apparition of Our Lady of LaSalette was in essentially the same “boat,” as it were, as the Divine Mercy devotion. I think that gets overlooked at times.
 
cathman1 said:
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 Why is it that the Devotion to the Divine Mercy was supressed before the Vatican II council and was included in the Index of Forbidden Works,but was revived after tha Vatican II. Is it true that the Vatican II has significant changes?
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Actually it was allowed before Vatican II; it was suppressed under John XXIII in 1959, then allowed again in 1978.

Br Dimond is extreme by any standard, has no authority to teach,and should be ignored.
 
Nobody has bothered to mention that the Dimond Brothers are sedevacantists. They don’t just question VII, they question the papacy since John XXIII.
 
WanderAimlessly said:
Why is this dead horse being constantly revived? :mad:
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What “dead horse” are you talking about? Just because you may know everything you want to know about the Most Holy Family Monastery doesn’t mean that other people can’t have questions about it. There are many people who have become confused and misled by the claims made by the Dimond Brothers. As long as the Dimonds and others continue to spread errors, it is necessary to address these issues.

If it bothers you to read such threads, please don’t read them, but don’t criticize other people for asking questions.
 
cam100 said:
What “dead horse” are you talking about? Just because you may know everything you want to know about the Most Holy Family Monastery doesn’t mean that other people can’t have questions about it. There are many people who have become confused and misled by the claims made by the Dimond Brothers. As long as the Dimonds and others continue to spread errors, it is necessary to address these issues.

If it bothers you to read such threads, please don’t read them, but don’t criticize other people for asking questions.
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WARNING: The Most Holy Family Monastery
Open Letter to The Dimond Brothers
Most Holy Family Monestary
www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com
I debated the Dimond Brothers!!!
Br Dimond Debate
Most Holy Family Monastery —on to something??
The Most Holy Family Monastery

And that is just back to the beginning of September. It is a “dead horse”.
 
If the “Most Holy” Family Monastery is a dead horse, then doubts about the legitimacy of Vatican 2 is a field of dead horses polluting the otherwise admirable appreciation for the Catholic church and her traditions. Why this keeps coming up in this forum is beyond me.
 
WanderAimlessly said:
WARNING: The Most Holy Family Monastery
Open Letter to The Dimond Brothers
Most Holy Family Monestary
www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com
I debated the Dimond Brothers!!!
Br Dimond Debate
Most Holy Family Monastery —on to something??
The Most Holy Family Monastery

And that is just back to the beginning of September. It is a “dead horse”.
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The fact that there are so many threads on this topic indicates that many people have encountered the errors of the Dimond brothers. Obviously, this is a hot topic. Why don’t you kindly point new posters to this information instead of making uncharitable comments about their questions?

To the original poster, cathman1, I would like to say “Welcome to the Traditional Catholicism Forum!”
 
Thank you very much Cam100, and you people responding to my thread. I am in great thirst for my religion(RCC).I am wondering why others leave the Roman Catholic Church.This had given me a quench. Thanx.
 
I recently discovered that www.mostholyfamilymonaster.com is a sponsored link on AOL, which means that it comes up at or near the top of the search list when one searches on terms such as “EWTN” or “John Corapi.”
 
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