Is Vatican II Infallible

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QuestingKnight said:
Yes, why not? Bishops are teachers, after all. As are priests. So teach us why Vatican II means an all-vernacular mass is not just permitted, but a good in itself. How CITH is an improvement on COTT. Why he is personally opposed to the saying of the older rite by his priests. And so on.

Actually, a part of the problem is that Catholics are too obedient. I doubt that introducing girls and folk guitars to Orthodox liturgies would have gone down too well.

I’m going to attend the most solemn mass free from local alterations that I can find.

Here’s a poser for readers:

Why should I have to do that in a world of 1 billion Catholics and a tradition of 2000 years? Does that seem normal to you?

At the current rate of change, when a seductively-dressed girl reclines on what used to be an altar in what used to be a Catholic church, ye won’t think it too strange.
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Bishops and priests are teachers. That does not make it right that we should demand that they explain themselves to us. Jesus left us with a hierarchy for decision making with regards to Church matters. I will let them make the decisions. I will follow those decisions whether I agree/like them or not. If I do not agree/like a decision I will try to determine the reason for it so that I can better understand their decision, but I will still follow it, regardless of whether I am able to find a reason for it or not, and I will certainly never demand that they explain themselves to me.
 
Actually, a part of the problem is that Catholics are too obedient.
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I think one of the biggest problems facing the Church right now is that most Catholics are no where near obedient enough and demand explanations from the Bishops or even the Pope in order to accept changes that they do not like.

Where do we get the audacity to put our thoughts/feelings above Holy Mother Church. This is not a symptom of being too obedient, this is a symptom of being too stubborn and arrogant!
 
CatholicGeek1 said:
I think one of the biggest problems facing the Church right now is that most Catholics are no where near obedient enough and demand explanations from the Bishops or even the Pope in order to accept changes that they do not like.

Where do we get the audacity to put our thoughts/feelings above Holy Mother Church. This is not a symptom of being too obedient, this is a symptom of being too stubborn and arrogant!
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CatholicGeek, you make a good point. Thank you.
 
Lormar said:
CatholicGeek, you make a good point. Thank you.
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I know we can get overwhelmed at times, and honest inquiry, dedication to learning and a quest for answers morphs into pride and recalcitrance. I have not seen that here on this thread though (for the last few pages anyway). It would be a lot easier if the Church did, in fact, begin in 1969…but we have 2000 years of stuff to go through!

Sirach, it is not all agenda posting and stubbornness. Granted, I have not been on here as long as you, nor have I been trying to take my faith seriously as long as you have (assuming you are still a 3rd. order Carmelite since 1981) so I can see how you get annoyed so easily. Your words and attitude come across pretty harshly sometimes. I have been very guilty of the same thing in the past, but am really trying to put that behind me. Please consider that some of us question for honest reasons. If it is a character flaw that drives us, may we be made pure in the blood of the Lamb.
 
Armor_of_Light said:
I know we can get overwhelmed at times, and honest inquiry, dedication to learning and a quest for answers morphs into pride and recalcitrance. I have not seen that here on this thread though (for the last few pages anyway). It would be a lot easier if the Church did, in fact, begin in 1969…but we have 2000 years of stuff to go through!

Sirach, it is not all agenda posting and stubbornness. Granted, I have not been on here as long as you, nor have I been trying to take my faith seriously as long as you have (assuming you are still a 3rd. order Carmelite since 1981) so I can see how you get annoyed so easily. Your words and attitude come across pretty harshly sometimes. I have been very guilty of the same thing in the past, but am really trying to put that behind me. Please consider that some of us question for honest reasons. If it is a character flaw that drives us, may we be made pure in the blood of the Lamb.
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I wasn’t referring to anything in this thread by my post. I was referring to myself. If
I don’t start with myself, I have no right to expect much from anyone else. 🙂
 
Armor of Light:
Please consider that some of us question for honest reasons.
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I will agree with you that it is sometimes good to question, except that in the last several posts since Jwinch re-opened this thread, I have not seen any questions. I have only seen his links that presented a Cardinal of the Church in a very bad light, as facts, not questions. Today was not his first attempt to make public this issue that has not authentically been proven to be Kasper’s words. Even when this topic was previously deleted and closed, he waited for a more opportune time and tried again.

So if my defense of Cardinal Kasper and the Church seems “harsh,” maybe it is due to a faulty interpretation made by the reader? Yes? I hope you had a chance to read the link showing the positive thoughts made by the Cardinal. It is unfortunately true that some like to chew on a bone till there’s no meat left.
 
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