Is watching Game of Thrones a sin?

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I’m surprised that posters on a Catholic site are saying its not a sin to watch something impure. I’m sure everyone would agree that watching porn is a mortal sin. This is no different at all. It’s porn in a fantasy setting. Of course that’s a sin and very offensive to Our Lord.
This is a bit of a tangent, but I simply don’t agree that every depiction of simulated sex in a movie/TV show is per se pornographic. It certainly CAN be, but I don’t think it automatically is.

Porn is a depiction of sex/nudity for no purpose other than arousal. If a show has a sex scene that is simply gratuitous nudity that adds nothing to the plot, characterization, or atmosphere, then yeah, that bit is probably pornographic. But it’s also possible for there to be nudity that has a purpose beyond simply titillation.
 
This is a bit of a tangent, but I simply don’t agree that every depiction of simulated sex in a movie/TV show is per se pornographic. It certainly CAN be, but I don’t think it automatically is.

Porn is a depiction of sex/nudity for no purpose other than arousal. If a show has a sex scene that is simply gratuitous nudity that adds nothing to the plot, characterization, or atmosphere, then yeah, that bit is probably pornographic. But it’s also possible for there to be nudity that has a purpose beyond simply titillation.
By that token, I don’t think that just because it serves a point in the plot means it’s automatically not pornographic. Even if such a scene has a purpose beyond titillation doesn’t mean that it’s not also designed to titillate. I’d venture to guess that most nudity present in mainstream shows are supposed to serve both purposes.

The Catechism defines pornography as “removing real or simulated sexual acts from the intimacy of the partners, in order to display them deliberately to third parties.” It doesn’t give an exemption clause for moving the plot along.
 
your going to have to explain how an occasion of sin is the same thing as a mortal sin. I think you may be overstating this.
The Church teaches that putting yourself into an occasion of sin that would lead a normal person into a mortal sin, is in itself a mortal sin. This doesn’t mean that in every case it would do this, but that there’s a danger for normal people to fall into it. (Or people similar to you - for example if a person is sensitive in a particular case they should avoid while others don’t need to - ie alcoholic in an alcohol store).

Every consented to impure thought is already a mortal sin. Looking at graphic scenes is very likely to lead to such thoughts. Even if they’re not consented to, they present an immediate danger to most people because its so easy to consent in this case. Putting yourself into this is a sin and there’s also presumption involved (“I’m strong enough…”). If the sin would be mortal, the sin of the willful occasion is mortal too.

Here’s a link…catholicessentials.net/occasionsofsin.htm

Catholic Encyclopedia is more detailed

Graphic impure scenes would classify as proximate occasions of sin that lead most into impure thoughts. Thus we are morally bound to avoid them. Since impure thoughts are grave matter, this occasion of sin is grave matter too. (This correlation exists)
 
In general, I find these topics can get a bit dicey, in part because the Church doesn’t provide us with a comprehensive list of popular media to avoid but rather leaves it to us to discern.

I understand how difference of opinion happens. We are so saturated with popular media (at least, here in the U.S.) that it’s like the air we breathe around us. It can be difficult for us to separate ourselves from it enough to render a truly impartial judgment. And I think it’s easy for us to rationalize. At the same time, there are instances where the portrayal of immoral things can be distinguished from the endorsement of those things. But sometimes we try to make a distinction here when there really is no difference.

How this applies to Game of Thrones, I’ll leave for others to determine for themselves. I’ve never seen it. I’ve known some good Catholics who like the show despite it’s moral flaws (saying they just fast forward through the bad parts). From what I’ve heard about it, I can’t see myself ever watching it—which is a shame because a fantasy tale of intrigue set in a Middle Ages type of back drop seems like exactly the type of show that would really appeal to me. I just can’t justify watching graphic, nude sex scenes no matter how many plot points it supposedly furthers. 🤷 If they release a sanitized “made for network prime time” version, perhaps I’d reconsider.
Something in your post reminded me of how Our Lady of Good Success said that in the 20th century, that there would be an almost total corruption of customs. I also found these words in some sources… This is an approved apparition

““The atmosphere will be saturated with a spirit of impurity. **Like a filthy ocean, it will run through the streets, squares and public places with astonishing freedom… **There will be almost no virgin souls left in the world. The delicate flower of virginity will be threatened by complete annihilation. Without virginity it will be necessary for fire from Heaven to fall upon these lands to purify them”

In the end, we can just think, what would Our Lady think of shows like this? 😦
 
This is a bit of a tangent, but I simply don’t agree that every depiction of simulated sex in a movie/TV show is per se pornographic. It certainly CAN be, but I don’t think it automatically is.

Porn is a depiction of sex/nudity for no purpose other than arousal. If a show has a sex scene that is simply gratuitous nudity that adds nothing to the plot, characterization, or atmosphere, then yeah, that bit is probably pornographic. But it’s also possible for there to be nudity that has a purpose beyond simply titillation.
I would argue that there is not much difference in terms of the effect.

If a scene is graphically impure, it would cause the same thoughts in the viewers whatever the intent on the director was. The director’s culpability would vary but even if he didn’t make porn, as you define, but it affects people like porn, that is very grave. He basically made porn without calling it porn, maybe being unaware of the fact, but due to the pervasive impurity of our times. Film makers have a lot of responsibility and they’re misusing it these days.

So by calling it porn I meant the effects… Its essentially the same. Those scenes are not necessary for the plot.

I.understand what you mean about porn being made only to tempt to impurity, but its possible for one scene to be made with an impure motive, certainly it would not be a pure one. And whatever the motives were, it tempts just the same. Maybe also the intent of the viewer is different (they don’t go in wanting to watch porn, they just want a fantasy story) - but its still a voluntary proximate occasion of sin.

Even less graphic stuff I don’t believe is watchable. For example a Pope said (I forget which one but he said it formally like he was defining morals) that passionate kissing is mortal sin outside of marriage. But its in almost every movie. In a virtuous society it would never be shown. My argument is that we are used to our society but its inundated with impurity. I believe this is very offensive to God.

This doesn’t mean there are no movies at all that are watchable. I’ve found some good ones over time. But I think its wise to discern what we watch… And the devil certainly can use our memories to later tempt us…

It would be good I think for us as Catholics to really lead by example in this way to our lost world… I don’t mean to be preachy, I have not lived the best life and at least now I’d like to make reparation.
 
May we all pray earnestly that the Lord’s grace will touch our hearts and cause us to pray and sacrifice much for a big change to take place!

Thank you Monica!

Peace,

Dorothy
 
The Church teaches that putting yourself into an occasion of sin that would lead a normal person into a mortal sin, is in itself a mortal sin.
Really now… where does it say that in the Cathecism? I think there is a big difference between actual sin and near occassion of sin. One can accidentally put themselves in a near occassion of sin without even being fully aware.
 
I would argue that there is not much difference in terms of the effect.

If a scene is graphically impure, it would cause the same thoughts in the viewers whatever the intent on the director was. The director’s culpability would vary but even if he didn’t make porn, as you define, but it affects people like porn, that is very grave. He basically made porn without calling it porn, maybe being unaware of the fact, but due to the pervasive impurity of our times. Film makers have a lot of responsibility and they’re misusing it these days.

So by calling it porn I meant the effects… Its essentially the same. Those scenes are not necessary for the plot.

I.understand what you mean about porn being made only to tempt to impurity, but its possible for one scene to be made with an impure motive, certainly it would not be a pure one. And whatever the motives were, it tempts just the same. Maybe also the intent of the viewer is different (they don’t go in wanting to watch porn, they just want a fantasy story) - but its still a voluntary proximate occasion of sin.

Even less graphic stuff I don’t believe is watchable. For example a Pope said (I forget which one but he said it formally like he was defining morals) that passionate kissing is mortal sin outside of marriage. But its in almost every movie. In a virtuous society it would never be shown. My argument is that we are used to our society but its inundated with impurity. I believe this is very offensive to God.

This doesn’t mean there are no movies at all that are watchable. I’ve found some good ones over time. But I think its wise to discern what we watch… And the devil certainly can use our memories to later tempt us…

It would be good I think for us as Catholics to really lead by example in this way to our lost world… I don’t mean to be preachy, I have not lived the best life and at least now I’d like to make reparation.
But surely the test can’t be whether it has a potentially tempting effect on the viewer. People can be aroused by virtually anything. A fifteen year old boy can be aroused by a strong breeze (I’m barely exaggerating here.) There are great works of art that depict nudity, that I’m sure someone somewhere has found arousing. I think you’d agree that something like the Venus de Milo isn’t pornographic, even though it does depict bare female breasts?
 
I don’t think this applies to impurity. I don’t believe we are to watch impurity ever. Furthermore if its like porn, which apparently GoT is, its a near occasion of sin hence a mortal sin to watch it.
The Old Testament of.the Bible contains a great deal of.graphic description of impurity of pretty much every kind imaginable.

A thinking being can read such things, or indeed watch Game of Thrones or the like, and preumably take more away from it than mere titillation.
 
Really now… where does it say that in the Cathecism? I think there is a big difference between actual sin and near occassion of sin. One can accidentally put themselves in a near occassion of sin without even being fully aware.
If its accidental and then when you’re aware and remove yourself right away, there’s no sin. But voluntary proximate occasion of sin is a mortal sin

I don’t know if its in the new Catechism, but its an element of moral theology and you can read about it in the Catholic encyclopedia, moral theology manuals I guess, and more detailed examinations of conscience such as this one catholicapologetics.info/thechurch/sacraments/adults.htm looking at obscene books/pictures is listed under “mortal sin” here.

From Catholic Dictionary:

"OCCASION OF SIN

Definition

Any person, place, or thing that of its nature or because of human frailty can lead one to do wrong, thereby committing sin. If the danger is certain and probable, the occasion is proximate; if the danger is slight, the occasion becomes remote. It is voluntary if it can easily be avoided. There is no obligation to avoid a remote occasion unless there is probable danger of its becoming proximate. There is a positive obligation to avid a voluntary proximate occasion of sin even though the occasion of evildoing is due only to human weakness."

catholicculture.org/culture/library/dictionary/index.cfm?id=35228

From the Baltimore Catechism:

. 771. What do you mean by the near occasions of sin?

A. By the near occasions of sin I mean all the persons, places and things that may easily lead us into sin.
Q. 772. Why are we bound to avoid occasions of sin?

A. We are bound to avoid occasions of sin because Our Lord has said: “He who loves the danger will perish in it”; and as we are bound to avoid the loss of our souls, so we are bound to avoid the danger of their loss. The occasion is the cause of sin, and you cannot take away the evil without removing its cause.
Q. 773. Is a person who is determined to avoid the sin, but who is unwilling to give up its near occasion when it is possible to do so, rightly disposed for confession?

A. A person who is determined to avoid the sin, but who is unwilling to give up its near occasion when it is possible to do so, is not rightly disposed for confession, and he will not be absolved if he makes known to the priest the true state of his conscience.
Q. 774. How many kinds of occasions of sin are there?

A. There are four kinds of occasions of sin:
Near occasions, through which we always fall;
Remote occasions, through which we sometimes fall;
Voluntary occasions or those we can avoid; and
Involuntary occasions or those we cannot avoid. A person who lives in a near and voluntary occasion of sin need not expect forgiveness while he continues in that state.
Q. 775. What persons, places and things are usually occasions of sin?

A.
The persons who are occasions of sin are all those in whose company we sin, whether they be bad of themselves or bad only while in our company, in which case we also become occasions of sin for them;
The places are usually liquor saloons, low theaters, indecent dances, entertainments, amusements, exhibitions, and all immoral resorts of any kind, whether we sin in them or not;
**The things are all bad books, indecent pictures, songs, jokes and the like, even when they are tolerated by public opinion and found in public places.
**
ourladyswarriors.org/faith/bc3-18.htm
 
But surely the test can’t be whether it has a potentially tempting effect on the viewer. People can be aroused by virtually anything. A fifteen year old boy can be aroused by a strong breeze (I’m barely exaggerating here.) There are great works of art that depict nudity, that I’m sure someone somewhere has found arousing. I think you’d agree that something like the Venus de Milo isn’t pornographic, even though it does depict bare female breasts?
Occasions of sin are measured by the norm. Someone who is looking for temptations or makes innocent things into temptations is a different case. The norm is that most people are tempted by graphic impure scenes.

As for art, artists are responsible in creating artworks that lead the mind to God and truths, not lower it to the passions.

I believe the best way is asking ourselves with full honesty what would Our Lady think of something. Otherwise we might just go along with our society which is not reliable in morality.
 
The Old Testament of.the Bible contains a great deal of.graphic description of impurity of pretty much every kind imaginable.

A thinking being can read such things, or indeed watch Game of Thrones or the like, and preumably take more away from it than mere titillation.
What parts of the Old Testament do you mean?
 
The Old Testament of.the Bible contains a great deal of.graphic description of impurity of pretty much every kind imaginable.

A thinking being can read such things, or indeed watch Game of Thrones or the like, and preumably take more away from it than mere titillation.
I would think so too. If one is matured enough to get over those scenes, it is probably just another entertainment.

The bigger downside is the addiction to it where it can take away the time used for God and prayers.

It is likely not helping in our spiritual life.
 
What parts of the Old Testament do you mean?
My wife, who is a convert to Catholicism, thinks the OT narration is often detailed with sexual frankness. I don’t know but I take it from her that there are some people who notice it that way. So again it requires mature audience as well - to realize that they serve a purpose to the story line.
 
I’d disagree that we can be so “mature” as to be above temptation… The temptation comes from concupiscence, not immaturity… The Saints, people who fought their concupiscence the most and were the most pure, would be the least likely to watch sexually explicit scenes. They simply wouldn’t, out of their sense of purity. Even if it doesn’t present a temptation, it always could, and its morally reprehensible…

Regarding the OT, do you mean the Song of Songs? The consent of the Fathers of the Church and theologians seems to be that that book of the OT is a type of allegory about Christ and the Church, and the soul. Fr Arintero, who was a Dominican priest who wrote a book about the Song of Songs, said it needs to be read spiritually and not with a “carnal” point of view.

In any case that is obviously incomparable to the GoT… The OT is Holy Scripture inspired by God. There’s nothing impure there and if it seems that way, I’d suggest its our minds that have been affected by our culture… If the OT describes an event, I’m sure it simply reads like an account. I don’t think we could compare a holy Divinely inspired book with some impure show or book, especially out of respect for it 🤷
 
I’d disagree that we can be so “mature” as to be above temptation… The temptation comes from concupiscence, not immaturity… The Saints, people who fought their concupiscence the most and were the most pure, would be the least likely to watch sexually explicit scenes. They simply wouldn’t, out of their sense of purity. Even if it doesn’t present a temptation, it always could, and its morally reprehensible…

Regarding the OT, do you mean the Song of Songs? The consent of the Fathers of the Church and theologians seems to be that that book of the OT is a type of allegory about Christ and the Church, and the soul. Fr Arintero, who was a Dominican priest who wrote a book about the Song of Songs, said it needs to be read spiritually and not with a “carnal” point of view.

In any case that is obviously incomparable to the GoT… The OT is Holy Scripture inspired by God. There’s nothing impure there and if it seems that way, I’d suggest its our minds that have been affected by our culture… If the OT describes an event, I’m sure it simply reads like an account. I don’t think we could compare a holy Divinely inspired book with some impure show or book, especially out of respect for it 🤷
I can’t argue with you on that and you are right.

Also not to compare the GoT with the OT. I brought it up just to make a point.

It really has to depend on the individual. Would watching GoT does you more harm or good? If you do not know, then probably avoid watching it is a good counsel.

However, there are people who can do with a good intertainment as past time and hobby - the things they like in life.

Unfortunately for me, fantasy movies is my weaknesses. 😛

I can say that if there is pornography in GoT, which I think there isn’t, but whatever it offers, the scenes do not affect me or anything bad about it. As far as that is concerned I am a mature viewer.

To me it is just in the story line - if the Queen was shown naked, it was in the storyline that she was punished. That kind of thing.

My regret in this is that it has taken my time, and because it is a series, I am forced to watch it at a time when it is shown. I felt somewhat like being dictated by it, and I feel bad about that.

So there are a number of ways why watching TV series is bad for our spiritual life, not just the content, which of course can be one of them.

But, like it is for some people, they simply like watching it, then one should strike a balance, especially that it should not affect our spiritual life, and which you are right. 👍

If that is so, then don’t watch it.
 
Just for the record, “One Mad Mom” still disapproves. In answer to the question,
Code:
"Why so much Catholic objection to such a popular show?” she replies:
“Why thanks for asking! Hmmm… I’d first have to go with it’s the fact that it’s the attempt to mainstream porn. For me, I’d totally expect this from the secular world, but Catholics? Really?!? That’s where it gets annoying for me.”

Her latest post on Game of Thrones continues here.
 
Just for the record, “One Mad Mom” still disapproves. In answer to the question,
Code:
"Why so much Catholic objection to such a popular show?” she replies:
“Why thanks for asking! Hmmm… I’d first have to go with it’s the fact that it’s the attempt to mainstream porn. For me, I’d totally expect this from the secular world, but Catholics? Really?!? That’s where it gets annoying for me.”

Her latest post on Game of Thrones continues here.
Good for her. I really like her style!
 
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