Is watching Will & Grace a sin?

[puzzleannie]

If I were homosexual, I would be deeply offended by not only W&G but Ellen, and every other show that includes offensive stereotypes of homosexual persons as the basis of its plots and characters. Look at Ellen, according to her writers, there are only 3 types of women: sexpots, daddy’s little girl, and lesbians, and any woman who dresses sensibly, professionally, modestly and is not caught up in a hair-makup-shoes obsession is, by definition, not one of the first two, ergo she must be a lesbian. (there are also fat frumpy geeky girls, who are not even classified as feminine, but let us attack one stereotype at a time).

the characters on these shows with their exaggerated mannerisms and stock responses and laugh-lines are reminiscent of the ways in which Negro characters were similarly stereotyped when they began appearing in sitcoms regularly–Jimmy Walker’s character, George Jefferson, et al.

 

[ElizabethAnne]

Perhaps some are.

I did not deny that some people are fallen human beings. I would argue that we all are. I would also argue that it is sad for a show to portray everyone with different views of the world as being either ignorant or hateful.

 

[ElizabethAnne]

People *do *make fun of others, and showing this going on is accurate: not propagandistic.

When did I say it was propaganda? It just saddens me to know how little the characters on the show think of people who differ from them. Supposedly they seek tolerance for their ways of life, but I did not see the characters display much tolerance themselves.

Which is also true to life - plenty are not, but plenty are. Quite a few are more than bigots - unfortunately. Making fun of such people seems quite right: not only do they often ask for it, but humour is a very good way of getting rid of one’s less constructive emotions.

I honestly do not believe it is okay to make fun of anyone. It is not Christian, charitable behavior. Every person on this earth is a child of God even if they do not realize it, and God loves each of us the same.

I have failed in this area myself many times, and I certainly do not expect characters on a show to emulate Christian charity. But I believe that Christians must strive to be more gentle with each other and with others in order to show Christ’s love in the world.

 

[Jerome42]

I find it entertaining at least, and I do enjoy watching it, is it a bad thing that gay humour amuses me?

Thanks, God Bless, Aaron.

It may not be a sin but it sure doesn’t say much for your discernmant.

Be very careful with this, homosexual activists in league with the devil, are deliberately portraying these queer characters as ‘bufoons’ or ‘happy go lucky fastidious characters’ in order to make this whole idea palatable to the masses.

Would such a show be just as entertaining if the two homosexual characters engaged in sodomy or other perversions? I don’t think so.

 

[twopekinguys]

I think it’s funny how everyone is focused on the “homosexual agenda” in the show, but dismissing the other immoral behaviors by the so called “straight” characters. There was plenty of alcohol abuse, drug abuse, lying, cheating, from Karen, Stan, Rosario, Leo, etc. Why focus on the “gay” part? Every sitcom could be disected to tear apart a particular segment of society. They are just that…Sitcoms!!!

 

[Julianna]

It may not be a sin but it sure doesn’t say much for your discernmant.

Be very careful with this, homosexual activists in league with the devil, are deliberately portraying these queer characters as ‘bufoons’ or ‘happy go lucky fastidious characters’ in order to make this whole idea palatable to the masses.
Would such a show be just as entertaining if the two homosexual characters engaged in sodomy or other perversions? I don’t think so.

Really? another crystal ball analogy…

I don’t think it would be entertaining either…because then it would be PORN. Geez louise…how is that helpful? I doubt seriously you know what goes on behind closed doors of …let’s say…the actors from 7th Heaven. The thing is, you don’t. The homophobia has run amok.

 

[Jerome42]

I think it’s funny how everyone is focused on the “homosexual agenda” in the show!!!

Want to see homosexual agenda?

americansfortruth.com/news/more-san-francisco-nuttiness-catholic-archbishop-gives-communion-to-sisters-of-perpetual-indulgence.html

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

When did I say it was propaganda?

You didn’t - that was said only because people not infrequently say that programmes with homosexuals in them are “promoting homosexuality”.​

It just saddens me to know how little the characters on the show think of people who differ from them. Supposedly they seek tolerance for their ways of life, but I did not see the characters display much tolerance themselves.

As said, maybe we’ve watched different episodes.​

I honestly do not believe it is okay to make fun of anyone. It is not Christian, charitable behavior. Every person on this earth is a child of God even if they do not realize it, and God loves each of us the same.

There is more than one way of laughing at people - not all of it is unfriendly.

I have failed in this area myself many times, and I certainly do not expect characters on a show to emulate Christian charity. But I believe that Christians must strive to be more gentle with each other and with others in order to show Christ’s love in the world.

Agreed. We must. Gentleness is not perhaps the most obvious characteristic one associates with Christians. Is it uncharitable, unChristian (anti-Christian even ?), ungracious, to make fun of the bigotry of others ? I don’t think so. It is not the bigot who is the problem, so much as the evil in that person, that expresses itself as bigotry. AFAICS, this is true of all men, since all of us are sinners; whether the evil in our hearts be gay-bashing bigotry or anger or lust or whatever it may be. To turn the temptation to lash out, into laughter at what are sinful attitudes on the part of some Christians (even if not described as sinful) STM to be a good idea, since all of us have to co-exist, whatever we may think of homosexuality. Laughter is surely less destructive than some reactions (such as Christophobia) ​

 

[tomarin]

i may be wrong, but i don’t think watching a television show is in and of itself a sin, unless it were outright pornography. if you watch it and engage with it critically and see where it deviates from what you believe in and what the church teaches, then i don’t see how a sin has been committed.

 

[fix]

This debate reminded me of this Blog by Jimmy Akin:

jimmyakin.typepad.com/defensor_fidei/2006/03/a_reader_writes.html

"The key to understanding what is not okay for you to watch is figuring out when you will be tempted to sin due to the content that you are exposed to. That’s the reason it becomes immoral to watch something."

I can see that may be part of the reasoning, but it seems insufficient. Would we say taking pleasure from a dirty joke was moral? Why is watching any show that celebrates immoral acts and philosophies and taking pleasure from those things morally neutral?

 

[twopekinguys]

Want to see homosexual agenda?

americansfortruth.com/news/more-san-francisco-nuttiness-catholic-archbishop-gives-communion-to-sisters-of-perpetual-indulgence.html

Again, you are focusing on one small aspect of the show. Did you read the rest of our post? Sex out of wedlock is still sex out of wedlock. Whether it is homosexual or heterosexual, it is adultery. Drug abuse and alcoholism are bad problems also. If we’re going to pick on a show, lets pick on all of the “immoral” behavior, not just one small aspect of it. If you watched the show at all, you would have noticed that Grace (heterosexual) slept with more people than Will (homosexual) out of wedlock. We are not condoning the homosexual aspect of the show, but lets be fair here. There are additional issues in the show that deserve alot more attention. Drugs, alcohol, divorce, adultery, illegal immigration. If you compare the main characters on the show, Will was the one who was closest to being a moral individual, by having a social concience, and he was gay!!

 

[tomarin]

Why is watching any show that celebrates immoral acts and philosophies and taking pleasure from those things morally neutral?

i would agree that watching a show such as will & grace and being blissfully “on board” for everything in it is problematic, although for a catholic that might be a matter of lack of awareness or even indifference to church teaching, both of which would be troubling.

but at the same time i don’t think one can say objectively that it is a sinful act in itself to watch the program – it depends on how you watch it. after all you can turn off your tv but you can’t completely shut out the secular world.

i think it’s better to cultivate critical thinking skills and know one’s faith, and you can’t very well do the former if you blindly follow somebody elses’s list of forbidden tv shows. you need to learn to think for yourself and use your own judgement, as guided by church teachings.

 

[fix]

i would agree that watching a show such as will & grace and being blissfully “on board” for everything in it is problematic, although for a catholic that might be a matter of lack of awareness or even indifference to church teaching, both of which would be troubling.

but at the same time i don’t think one can say objectively that it is a sinful act in itself to watch the program – it depends on how you watch it. after all you can turn off your tv but you can’t completely shut out the secular world.

i think it’s better to cultivate critical thinking skills and know one’s faith, and you can’t very well do the former if you blindly follow somebody elses’s list of forbidden tv shows. you need to learn to think for yourself and use your own judgement, as guided by church teachings.

I am asking the question only. It seems remarkable that I can read here people claiming that show, or any show like it, is simply a matter of taste as if the content and pleasure derived from watching that content are of no consequence to our moral life.

Basically I am asking the difference between taking pleasure from immoral talk in real life and from taking pleasure from immoral talk and innuendo on tv , or books, or movies?

 

[YinYangMom]

Basically I am asking the difference bewteen taking pleasure from immoral talk in real life and from taking pleasure from immoral talk and innuendo on tv , or books, or movies?

I would say there’s a difference between ‘taking pleasure’ and ‘appreciating the humor in’ immoral talk and innuendo on TV, books or movies.

Through laughter we can learn important lessons.
Comedy is an art form which can be used for good or for bad, as any skill or talent can.

I can laugh at Family Guy’s digs at society’s behaviors and attitudes which are detrimental to us as a nation. Kudos to them for calling those behaviors out so that people will question them. If they don’t get the joke, then thinking about it may alert them to the underlying issue. Lois and Co. are horrible role models for family relations, but it’s a cartoon with a talking dog and a genious infant so that’s a giveaway that none of the show is meant to be something to emulate. Do I take pleasure from the show? No. I take pleasure from my family, my faith - all the positive things in my life.

However, when it comes to gay characters portrayed in sitcoms, and domestic family relationships, that, I can’t appreciate because it does stereotype falsely what real relationships and mainstream gay people are like as if it were the norm. Not only do I not take pleasure in those shows but I don’t appreciate the humor displayed.

Sin is a very definite thing. The act has to be of grave matter, you have to know about the gravity of the matter **and **the consequences, and you have to choose to engage in the activity despite what you know about the gravity of the action.

There is no grave matter in entertainment in and of itself, particularly when it comes to taking in mainstream media. Grave matter comes into play when you actively seek out porn in all forms of media - art, books, music, movies, tv - for the sole purpose of indulging personal sexual desires.

Choosing to watch Will and Grace, Family Guy, Brokeback Mountain, Boys Don’t Cry, Million Dollar Baby because of the storyline itself and to appreciate the work which went into making these peices is not the same as watching these in order to indulge oneself in knowingly sinful behavior.

Granted, the US bishops are wise to caution against viewing such pieces if that’s all one goes for. Moderation in all things, really. One should balance what they take in…one secular piece, one or two Catholic ones, so that not just the negative gets into our minds but we also take in the positive to help us put the negative in proper perspective.

 

[buffalo]

I would say there’s a difference between ‘taking pleasure’ and ‘appreciating the humor in’ immoral talk and innuendo on TV, books or movies.

Through laughter we can learn important lessons.
Comedy is an art form which can be used for good or for bad, as any skill or talent can.

I can laugh at Family Guy’s digs at society’s behaviors and attitudes which are detrimental to us as a nation. Kudos to them for calling those behaviors out so that people will question them. If they don’t get the joke, then thinking about it may alert them to the underlying issue. Lois and Co. are horrible role models for family relations, but it’s a cartoon with a talking dog and a genious infant so that’s a giveaway that none of the show is meant to be something to emulate. Do I take pleasure from the show? No. I take pleasure from my family, my faith - all the positive things in my life.

However, when it comes to gay characters portrayed in sitcoms, and domestic family relationships, that, I can’t appreciate because it does stereotype falsely what real relationships and mainstream gay people are like as if it were the norm. Not only do I not take pleasure in those shows but I don’t appreciate the humor displayed.

Sin is a very definite thing. The act has to be of grave matter, you have to know about the gravity of the matter **and **the consequences, and you have to choose to engage in the activity despite what you know about the gravity of the action.

There is no grave matter in entertainment in and of itself, particularly when it comes to taking in mainstream media. Grave matter comes into play when you actively seek out porn in all forms of media - art, books, music, movies, tv - for the sole purpose of indulging personal sexual desires.

Choosing to watch Will and Grace, Family Guy, Brokeback Mountain, Boys Don’t Cry, Million Dollar Baby because of the storyline itself and to appreciate the work which went into making these peices is not the same as watching these in order to indulge oneself in knowingly sinful behavior.

Watching is not the only problem. Ratings and advertisers drive more of this. If people would tell the advertisers they are not buying their products and why, this promotion would stop. Because of viewers complacency and justifications it will continue and get worse. What are we leaving for our children?

I submit - a cesspool.

We can and should do better.

 

[YinYangMom]

Watching is not the only problem. Ratings and advertisers drive more of this. If people would tell the advertisers they are not buying their products and why, this promotion would stop. Because of viewers complacency and justifications it will continue and get worse. What are we leaving for our children?

I submit - a cesspool.

We can and should do better.

Yeah, but that’s an entirely different topic.

We’re discussing whether or not watching Will & Grace (and I suppose other shows like it) is a sin or not.

I agree watching is a problem for the reasons you cited, but I don’t agree that watching is a sin.

 

[fix]

I would say there’s a difference between ‘taking pleasure’ and ‘appreciating the humor in’ immoral talk and innuendo on TV, books or movies.

What is the difference?

Through laughter we can learn important lessons.
Comedy is an art form which can be used for good or for bad, as any skill or talent can.

So, laughing at immoral sex acts is valuable? How so?

Sin is a very definite thing. The act has to be of grave matter, you have to know about the gravity of the matter **and **the consequences, and you have to choose to engage in the activity despite what you know about the gravity of the action.

Not so for venial sin. Although sexual matter is always grave.

There is no grave matter in entertainment in and of itself, particularly when it comes to taking in mainstream media.

What? One who seeks out these shows knows the content, right?

Grave matter comes into play when you actively seek out porn in all forms of media - art, books, music, movies, tv - for the sole purpose of indulging personal sexual desires.

Says who? One does not need to seek out grave matter. Temptation comes our way all the time. Knowingly seeking it out just makes it worse.

 

[buffalo]

Yeah, but that’s an entirely different topic.

We’re discussing whether or not watching Will & Grace (and I suppose other shows like it) is a sin or not.

I agree watching is a problem for the reasons you cited, but I don’t agree that watching is a sin.

You are not watching it in a vacuum. It is a sin for the act of watching ultimately supports even more sinful things. It cannot be justified.

 

[YinYangMom]

You are not watching it in a vacuum. It is a sin for the act of watching ultimately supports even more sinful things. It cannot be justified.

If I choose to watch the show for the sole purpose of supporting the medium because I derive pleasure from indulging in viewing material which leads me into knowingly sinful behavior and I also go out and purchase only products from those advertisers who provide funding for such programs, then, yeah, I’d consider that a sin.

To select programs to view based on what’s available at the time, and choosing to view those ‘least’ offensive from the lot while portraying positive messages would not be what I consider a sin. The intent and willful defiance just is not present.

It’s not a matter of justifying sinful behavior.
It’s a matter of determining first and foremost if viewing programs which have a particular character or depict a particular lifestyle is a sin in the first place.

 

[chicago]

I also see this program, along with many others, as an attempt to assert the message that homosexual behavior is perfectly normal - funny, in fact. There is absolutely no balance in the representation of these characters. If a contrary point of view is presented, it is with such bias that one can only assume that all those who disagree with homosexual behavior are homophobic bigots. For me, this show is nothing more than propaganda dressed up like entertainment. There is nothing that represents my, or any Catholic’s, point of view.

I see the show exactly the opposite. While this may be (at least in part) the intent of the producers, I find the actual sitcom to be a farce which actually shows the foolishness of its characters. Not just the “gay” characters, but the straight ones, also. Everyone is marvelously narscisistic to an extreme, which illustrates just how crazy they all are. To boot, I have heard that many from the gay community never really liked the portrayal of Jack, in particular, as they found it stereotypical. So, while some who found its message to be disenchanting aren’t fans, perhaps it had something of valuable commentary about the faults of our humanity, afterall. In that sense, I found it to be brilliant.