Is Wearing Immodest Clothing a Sin?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Inquiringperson
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
heart4home makes some valid points – men do notice. Noticing does not mean acting or even fantasizing, but we do. It’s there, and it can be fought, but going unnoticed? To claim that would be dishonest.

That said, I’m a man who enjoys seeing women in bikinis and one-piece outfits (lets give the legs some love too!) but I’m not sure I would call either immoral. Certainly some probably exist for both that are a bit excessively immodest, but there are certainly shirts, pants, and dresses that do the same.

I’m not willing to declare bikinis immoral on the grounds that all are.
 
“Certain fashions are going to be introduced which will offend Our Lord very much. Those who serve God should not follow these fashions. The Church has no fashions; Our Lord is always the same.” from Our Lady of Fatima

reference : my book but since it’s in Spanish, I looked for it in English online here.
 
E_7 said:
“Certain fashions are going to be introduced which will offend Our Lord very much. Those who serve God should not follow these fashions. The Church has no fashions; Our Lord is always the same.” from Our Lady of Fatima

reference : my book but since it’s in Spanish, I looked for it in English online here.
Click to expand...
There is much confusion about what was supposedly said or not said by an apparition of the Blessed Mother at Fatima. That being said, I would refer people to the Vatican’s official page on Fatima. Apparitions and what was said/not said have been known to take on a life of their own with their followers. Not to say that we should be running around letting it all hang out, but I think it’s a good idea to go with what the Church says on things.

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000626_message-fatima_en.html
 
severus68 said:
Originally Posted by manualman View Post
Writing a rule about modesty is as futile as attempting to write a text definition about the difference between porn and legitimate art with nudity in it. There’s a real and genuine difference, but good luck describing it in a lawyer proof manner.
Click to expand...
I can pretty well guarantee that he has not insulted ALL men…😉

I will agree that it is incorrect to say that, “all he’s going to notice is the flesh…”, and not your sense of humor, or intellect…

However, it would also be incorrect to say that all he’s going to notice IS your sense of humor and intellect. After all, when we look at people we tend to look at all of them. How they walk, body size, type, hair, features, clothing style, etc. etc…If a person is wearing clothes that is too tight, or shows cleavage or whatever…Don’t expect a man not to notice it…

That said, “noticing” these things is not the same as “lusting” after them. So this brings in a whole other “grey area” to deal with…🤷

Peace
James
Click to expand...
 
Psalmodius said:
heart4home makes some valid points – men do notice. Noticing does not mean acting or even fantasizing, but we do. It’s there, and it can be fought, but going unnoticed? To claim that would be dishonest.

That said, I’m a man who enjoys seeing women in bikinis and one-piece outfits (lets give the legs some love too!) but I’m not sure I would call either immoral. Certainly some probably exist for both that are a bit excessively immodest, but there are certainly shirts, pants, and dresses that do the same.

I’m not willing to declare bikinis immoral on the grounds that all are.
Click to expand...
I agree. We can admire and find someone attractive, we do not have lust.
 
LightBound said:
There is much confusion about what was supposedly said or not said by an apparition of the Blessed Mother at Fatima. That being said, I would refer people to the Vatican’s official page on Fatima. Apparitions and what was said/not said have been known to take on a life of their own with their followers. Not to say that we should be running around letting it all hang out, but I think it’s a good idea to go with what the Church says on things.

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000626_message-fatima_en.html
Click to expand...
I have said this so many times on CAF but people post this without first checking Vatican sites.
 
severus68 said:
I have said this so many times on CAF but people post this without first checking Vatican sites.
Click to expand...
Where did you think I snagged it from ? 😉 😃

Got to give credit where credit is due!!

Vatican site is a treasury of info that we should go to first when looking for answers.
 
JRKH said:
I can pretty well guarantee that he has not insulted ALL men…😉

I will agree that it is incorrect to say that, “all he’s going to notice is the flesh…”, and not your sense of humor, or intellect…

However, it would also be incorrect to say that all he’s going to notice IS your sense of humor and intellect. After all, when we look at people we tend to look at all of them. How they walk, body size, type, hair, features, clothing style, etc. etc…If a person is wearing clothes that is too tight, or shows cleavage or whatever…Don’t expect a man not to notice it…

That said, “noticing” these things is not the same as “lusting” after them. So this brings in a whole other “grey area” to deal with…🤷

Peace
James
Click to expand...
I do not think Manualman was referring to looking as in admiring and finding attractive or just looking. He was making a point about cleavage etc. If he says that he did not mean showing cleavage etc would cause men to lust etc, my apologies to him.
 
severus68 said:
Your grandfather was very wise.
Click to expand...
Thank you! That means alot. One of my biggest heartaches in life is never meeting him. He died many years before I was born. But I’ve come to know him very well throuch my mother.
 
JRKH said:
I can pretty well guarantee that he has not insulted ALL men…😉

I will agree that it is incorrect to say that, “all he’s going to notice is the flesh…”, and not your sense of humor, or intellect…

However, it would also be incorrect to say that all he’s going to notice IS your sense of humor and intellect. After all, when we look at people we tend to look at all of them. How they walk, body size, type, hair, features, clothing style, etc. etc…If a person is wearing clothes that is too tight, or shows cleavage or whatever…Don’t expect a man not to notice it…

That said, “noticing” these things is not the same as “lusting” after them. So this brings in a whole other “grey area” to deal with…🤷

Peace
James
Click to expand...
However, does it have to be about someone lusting after the wearer, to make it immodest? What about just the comfort and consideration of those around them?

When we were at the beach this past summer there was a lady who must have been in her 60s wearing a true bikini. It was clear it made many uncomfortable. We tried to keep seated in the other direction etc., but she would get up and walk all around and back and forth to the ocean. We finally did move a bit further down the beach because some of the comments of others about her were very offensive,and upsetting. Interestingly enough she had a friend of similar age with her, who chose to wear a cover up and one piece bathing suit with a little skirt bottom.

It seems that there are some who will fight till the end of the earth for their freedom to wear or do something and that’s all well and good. However, what they seem to miss is the lesson, that can be learned by listening to others and trying to learn how some of their choices do affect others. It’s called courtesy, and consideration for those around you. Not putting yourself and your own desires/comforts to dress a certain way first, but to really sit back and evaluate how they may hurt or upset those nearby. Society let go of that concern a long time ago and it seems it’s now missing in the Church as a whole, as well.

If there are a dozen people on the beach and you are running around in a bikini and you are upsetting half or even a quarter of the people,(or perhaps causing them to lust after you) is it your problem? Some say no it’s not, it’s the other people’s problem. But again if they would look at what CCC says of the definition of purity and modesty, perhaps they would reconsider where they stand on the matter.

Yes, as Catholics we are guided to not look at the dress of others and to look at the whole person, but sometimes when there is so much exposed it makes it very hard to offer the person the dignity that they should want and deserve.

Again…"2521 Purity requires modesty, an integral part of temperance. Modesty protects the intimate center of the person. It means refusing to unveil what should remain hidden. It is ordered to chastity to whose sensitivity it bears witness. It guides how one looks at others and behaves toward them in conformity with the dignity of persons and their solidarity.

2522** Modesty protects the mystery of persons** and their love. It encourages patience and moderation in loving relationships; it requires that the conditions for the definitive giving and commitment of man and woman to one another be fulfilled. Modesty is decency. It inspires one’s choice of clothing. It keeps silence or reserve where there is evident risk of unhealthy curiosity.** It is discreet.**

“It might be said that society speaks through the clothing it wears. Through its clothing it reveals its secret aspirations and uses it, at least in part, to build or destroy the future.”
Pope Pius XII
 
2522 Modesty protects the mystery of persons and their love. It encourages patience and moderation in loving relationships; it requires that the conditions for the definitive giving and commitment of man and woman to one another be fulfilled. Modesty is decency. It inspires one’s choice of clothing. It keeps silence or reserve where there is evident risk of unhealthy curiosity. It is discreet.
 
heart4home said:
However, does it have to be about someone lusting after the wearer, to make it immodest? What about just the comfort and consideration of those around them?

When we were at the beach this past summer there was a lady who must have been in her 60s wearing a true bikini. It was clear it made many uncomfortable. We tried to keep seated in the other direction etc., but she would get up and walk all around and back and forth to the ocean. We finally did move a bit further down the beach because some of the comments of others about her were very offensive,and upsetting. Interestingly enough she had a friend of similar age with her, who chose to wear a cover up and one piece bathing suit with a little skirt bottom.
Click to expand...
Your point is well taken. It is not only “Lust” that can be a problem. Sins such as gossip and other uncharitable thoughts and comments can occur as well.

Peace
James
 
Don’t get bogged down in arguments about inciting lust. Men are responsible for their own sins. The reason women should be modest has little to do with pity for poor men unable to control their passions. Women should dress modestly even on a purely selfish basis.

Perhaps Padre Pio and JPII grew beyond it. But I stand by my assertion. You only get to make ONE first impression, and however much your average American man protests his virtue, I guarantee that the first impression he gets from a brilliant, witty and busty woman who is showing it off is the flesh. Why not do your best to draw attention to what is best about you?

It’s not an insult, just a fact of life. Men by outcome of the fall are tempted to see the world through the lens of conquest. It’s simply not wise to invite them to view you as a sexual object rather than a person. Choose your look accordingly.
 
manualman said:
Don’t get bogged down in arguments about inciting lust. Men are responsible for their own sins. The reason women should be modest has little to do with pity for poor men unable to control their passions. Women should dress modestly even on a purely selfish basis.

Perhaps Padre Pio and JPII grew beyond it. But I stand by my assertion. You only get to make ONE first impression, and however much your average American man protests his virtue, I guarantee that the first impression he gets from a brilliant, witty and busty woman who is showing it off is the flesh. Why not do your best to draw attention to what is best about you?

It’s not an insult, just a fact of life. Men by outcome of the fall are tempted to see the world through the lens of conquest. It’s simply not wise to invite them to view you as a sexual object rather than a person. Choose your look accordingly.
Click to expand...
One of the first busty women I remember seeing regularly in mainstream entertainment was Dolly Parton. As many of you remember, she showed quite a bit of cleavage back in the 80’s. But after all that “immodesty”, the impression from it hasn’t left much of a mark in my mind. Whenever I think about her, I think she seems like a sincere lady with a heart of gold.
 
Havard said:
One of the first busty women I remember seeing regularly in mainstream entertainment was Dolly Parton. As many of you remember, she showed quite a bit of cleavage back in the 80’s. But after all that “immodesty”, the impression from it hasn’t left much of a mark in my mind. Whenever I think about her, I think she seems like a sincere lady with a heart of gold.
Click to expand...
Thanks for making my point. Are you seriously arguing that the first thing that comes to mind in the mind of any guy who grew up in the 70’s and 80’s when you say “Dolly Parton” is “heart of gold?” Sorry, but I doubt it. Guys?
 
I think both genders need to keep the other under consideration when it comes to modesty in dress. Not all women dress in a certain way to attract men’s attention but do not always realize that the way they dress can cause issues for some men. But then not all men know how to control their minds and actions either when it comes to the way women dress either. It is a truly a 2 way street for both men and women with equal burden to be carried.
 
manualman said:
Thanks for making my point. Are you seriously arguing that the first thing that comes to mind in the mind of any guy who grew up in the 70’s and 80’s when you say “Dolly Parton” is “heart of gold?” Sorry, but I doubt it. Guys?
Click to expand...
Of course that’s what I’m saying. And I’ll say the same for many other such women such as Tyra Banks, Angelina Jolie, Sharon Stone or Jane Fonda… all because I’ve gotten a sense of their distinct personalities. I can’t say that about every mainstream female sex symbol, but that’s precisely because their personality was either never revealed, or revealed to be shallow.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top