Is Wearing Immodest Clothing a Sin?

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heart4home said:
However, does it have to be about someone lusting after the wearer, to make it immodest? What about just the comfort and consideration of those around them?

When we were at the beach this past summer there was a lady who must have been in her 60s wearing a true bikini. It was clear it made many uncomfortable. We tried to keep seated in the other direction etc., but she would get up and walk all around and back and forth to the ocean. We finally did move a bit further down the beach because some of the comments of others about her were very offensive,and upsetting. Interestingly enough she had a friend of similar age with her, who chose to wear a cover up and one piece bathing suit with a little skirt bottom.

It seems that there are some who will fight till the end of the earth for their freedom to wear or do something and that’s all well and good. However, what they seem to miss is the lesson, that can be learned by listening to others and trying to learn how some of their choices do affect others. It’s called courtesy, and consideration for those around you. Not putting yourself and your own desires/comforts to dress a certain way first, but to really sit back and evaluate how they may hurt or upset those nearby. Society let go of that concern a long time ago and it seems it’s now missing in the Church as a whole, as well.

If there are a dozen people on the beach and you are running around in a bikini and you are upsetting half or even a quarter of the people,(or perhaps causing them to lust after you) is it your problem? Some say no it’s not, it’s the other people’s problem. But again if they would look at what CCC says of the definition of purity and modesty, perhaps they would reconsider where they stand on the matter.

Yes, as Catholics we are guided to not look at the dress of others and to look at the whole person, but sometimes when there is so much exposed it makes it very hard to offer the person the dignity that they should want and deserve.

Again…"2521 Purity requires modesty, an integral part of temperance. Modesty protects the intimate center of the person. It means refusing to unveil what should remain hidden. It is ordered to chastity to whose sensitivity it bears witness. It guides how one looks at others and behaves toward them in conformity with the dignity of persons and their solidarity.

2522** Modesty protects the mystery of persons** and their love. It encourages patience and moderation in loving relationships; it requires that the conditions for the definitive giving and commitment of man and woman to one another be fulfilled. Modesty is decency. It inspires one’s choice of clothing. It keeps silence or reserve where there is evident risk of unhealthy curiosity.** It is discreet.**

“It might be said that society speaks through the clothing it wears. Through its clothing it reveals its secret aspirations and uses it, at least in part, to build or destroy the future.”
Pope Pius XII
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Were you upset with her or the people who were making offensive remarks? Who was uncomfortable? Was it because of what she was wearing or her age? I would assume seeing a bikini on a beach in the US is common so I would assume it was her age. Some are so concerned about what others wear that they forget about being kind and charitable.
 
child_of_God85 said:
Thank you! That means alot. One of my biggest heartaches in life is never meeting him. He died many years before I was born. But I’ve come to know him very well throuch my mother.
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I am sure he knows what’s going on in your life and knows you very well too.
 
Havard said:
Of course that’s what I’m saying. And I’ll say the same for many other such women such as Tyra Banks, Angelina Jolie, Sharon Stone or Jane Fonda… all because I’ve gotten a sense of their distinct personalities. I can’t say that about every mainstream female sex symbol, but that’s precisely because their personality was either never revealed, or revealed to be shallow.
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Thank you for showing that not all men sexualise everything.
 
On thread’s like this we must realize that we are trying to come to a conclusion on something VERY important. I don’t think many people understand just how important modesty is in today’s society where it has influenced in changing men and women’s attitude toward’s each other and on the respect of our dignity and value. Therefore we must try and find the truth, i have found there are always those who wish to ignore their catholic conscience in this to justify immodesty, they do this by making out that it rarely exist’s at all. Because immodesty is so damaging for men and women as Catholic’s it cannot be acceptable, it degrade’s women and attempt’s to lure people into sin through their mind and eventually through their behavior
 
Paddy1989 said:
On thread’s like this we must realize that we are trying to come to a conclusion on something VERY important. I don’t think many people understand just how important modesty is in today’s society where it has influenced in changing men and women’s attitude toward’s each other and on the respect of our dignity and value. Therefore we must try and find the truth, i have found there are always those who wish to ignore their catholic conscience in this to justify immodesty, they do this by making out that it rarely exist’s at all
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Modesty is about a lot more than dress. Those who look for sin will see it everywhere.
 
severus68 said:
Were you upset with her or the people who were making offensive remarks? Who was uncomfortable? Was it because of what she was wearing or her age? I would assume seeing a bikini on a beach in the US is common so I would assume it was her age. Some are so concerned about what others wear that they forget about being kind and charitable.
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My exact words in that post were “We finally did move a bit further down the beach **because some of the comments of others about her were very offensive,and upsetting. **”

Yes, while I don’t think bikinis are modest, we were not the ones making the comments about her, and I wasn’t so much upset with her as for her.
 
severus68 said:
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Havard:
Of course that’s what I’m saying. And I’ll say the same for many other such women such as Tyra Banks, Angelina Jolie, Sharon Stone or Jane Fonda… all because I’ve gotten a sense of their distinct personalities. I can’t say that about every mainstream female sex symbol, but that’s precisely because their personality was either never revealed, or revealed to be shallow.
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Thank you for showing that not all men sexualise everything.
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Ditto.
 
severus68 said:
Modesty is about a lot more than dress. Those who look for sin will see it everywhere.
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I agree but i don’t think though that your point goes to any member’s of this forum, i mean people here are just stating the obvious when it come’s to immodesty. If we use our conscience on this then as Catholic’s we shouldn’t come far off the same conclusion
 
Havard said:
One of the first busty women I remember seeing regularly in mainstream entertainment was Dolly Parton. As many of you remember, she showed quite a bit of cleavage back in the 80’s. But after all that “immodesty”, the impression from it hasn’t left much of a mark in my mind. Whenever I think about her, I think she seems like a sincere lady with a heart of gold.
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I think she has a heart of gold too. I also think that she dressed immodestly showing all that cleavage. I believe that she most certainly caused some men to lust after her breasts.

Actually, I absolutely believe that many(dare say most) women who dress immodestly have good hearts, are good people, and love God. However, that doesn’t really change that they are dressing immodestly.

Many people commit mortal sins. They are still what most of us would call good people, and most of them do love God. That doesn’t change the fact they committed a mortal sin.

I guess my point is, one thing does not negate the other.
 
severus68 said:
Modesty is about a lot more than dress. Those who look for sin will see it everywhere.
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I think you’ll find that I consistently oppose the practice of scolding ‘immodestly dressed’ women for the claim that they are ‘causing’ men to sin. Men are plenty able to sin all by themselves! To that part of your point, yes it is futile to attempt to constantly be everyone’s grandmother. Instead I choose to explain to women how men typically experience tantilizingly dressed women. So I agree that one can focus too much on the sins of others, if that’s what you mean.

But your last line seems a bit ignorant of Scripture and Tradition. Read the first couple chapters of Genesis: Sin IS everywhere! We humans are all faulty, flawed and doomed to self destruction without the intervention of Grace.

Like it or not, the way you dress yourself sends a message to others about how you think of yourself. If you think you have better things to offer the world than merely your body, then tell us that nonverbally. That applies to men and women, of course.
 
manualman said:
I think you’ll find that I consistently oppose the practice of scolding ‘immodestly dressed’ women for the claim that they are ‘causing’ men to sin. Men are plenty able to sin all by themselves! To that part of your point, yes it is futile to attempt to constantly be everyone’s grandmother. Instead I choose to explain to women how men typically experience tantilizingly dressed women. So I agree that one can focus too much on the sins of others, if that’s what you mean.

But your last line seems a bit ignorant of Scripture and Tradition. Read the first couple chapters of Genesis: Sin IS everywhere! We humans are all faulty, flawed and doomed to self destruction without the intervention of Grace.

Like it or not, the way you dress yourself sends a message to others about how you think of yourself. If you think you have better things to offer the world than merely your body, then tell us that nonverbally. That applies to men and women, of course.
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What it seems from the “modesty” threads – some men are not availing themselves of the Grace to purify their hearts and minds – for in some way or another – the finger pointing ends towards the women.

And If we really want to be Christian – we should not go around “looking for messages” in how people dress – but treat everyone with respect.
 
I consider myself fashionable, at least I try to be. But I still try to be as modest as I can without looking frumpy. Take yesterday. I found a beautiful blouse at the mall, but it was totally sheer. Instead of putting it back I found a fancy little tank top that mat hed the blouse perfectly. So what would have been a very provocative looking blouse, now is a very pretty and modest blouse.
 
Walking_Home said:
What it seems from the “modesty” threads – some men are not availing themselves of the Grace to purify their hearts and minds – for in some way or another – the finger pointing ends towards the women.

And If we really want to be Christian – we should not go around “looking for messages” in how people dress – but treat everyone with respect.
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Should men control themselves and their thoughts? Absolutely! However, Is it unreasonable to ask women to do what they can to help their brothers? Why is that such a problem for so many? The truth is, it’s not always easy for one to control their thoughts but I think most of us could agree, that at the very least, it is much easier for another to control their choice of clothes.
 
heart4home said:
Should men control themselves and their thoughts? Absolutely! However, Is it unreasonable to ask women to do what they can to help their brothers? Why is that such a problem for so many? The truth is, it’s not always easy for one to control their thoughts but I think most of us could agree, that at the very least, it is much easier for another to control their choice of clothes.
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The end result – of depending on another – is that we become dependent – and will not truly work to overcome our own faults.
 
So I brought up this topic to my husband. He just laughed, because he said it is not the clothing itself for a lot of men. In fact, he said that sometimes it can be the opposite; the more modest the clothing, the more “mystery”. When it’s all ‘hanging out’ (for lack of better term), there is nothing left to the imagination.
 
_Jenn said:
So I brought up this topic to my husband. He just laughed, because he said it is not the clothing itself for a lot of men. In fact, he said that sometimes it can be the opposite; the more modest the clothing, the more “mystery”. When it’s all ‘hanging out’ (for lack of better term), there is nothing left to the imagination.
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He’s right.

At the end of the day, we are still sexual beings and we will still be attracted to women. Wear a bikini, cover yourself head to toe in burlap, wear nothing but socks, don full plate armor… we will still find a way to be attracted to women.

I don’t have the answers to what is modest or immodest, or whether it is a man’s lack of chastity, or a woman dressing to draw attention to herself. All I know is God made us all to be beautiful and to appreciate each others’ beauty whether it is inside or out. God made women to appeal to men with their beauty, and men are called to appreciate that beauty in a chaste way no matter how it presents itself.

I love the beauty of women and I am a chaste man,
Joshua
 
Walking_Home said:
What it seems from the “modesty” threads – some men are not availing themselves of the Grace to purify their hearts and minds – for in some way or another – the finger pointing ends towards the women.

And If we really want to be Christian – we should not go around “looking for messages” in how people dress – but treat everyone with respect.
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LOL, nobody is saying men don’t need to clean up their act, least of all me.

But your response reminds me of the people who get indignant about how rotten society is when the police remind them to buy deadbolts for their houses and use them instead of leaving the place unattended and unlocked. It isn’t the victim’s fault if a criminal burglarizes an unlocked house. But its simply not prudent to invite it. The virtue of prudence gets little respect anymore. 😦
 
I don’t think women realize just how much visual creatures us men are. Sure anything can be viewed as immodest, I can easily get just as aroused from a woman wearing a sweater as well as a bikini…however the woman wearing the sweater was dressed as modest as possible and if I lust after her, it’s my problem and my fault alone. She did nothing wrong and it’s me and my lustful, perverted mind that’s at fault.

However the woman wearing a very loose American Apparel grey tank top with no bra and black leggings (BTW ladies…PLEASE PLEASE DON’T WEAR THE LEGGINGS!)…is at fault and not me.

Dennis Prager I think says it best on this

youtube.com/watch?v=U8W9gv9CIAM&feature=channel_video_title
 
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