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Holly3278
Guest
Hi everyone. Is willfully putting yourself in a near occasion of sin a mortal sin, venial sin, or not a sin at all? Thanks!
Is willfully putting yourself in a near occasion of sin a mortal sin, venial sin, or even a sin at all?
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tjm190
Guest
I’d say it’s not a sin by definition- although still not a good call.
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Holly3278
Guest
Ok, but no offense but you’re a dissident Catholic according to your religion thing. I’d like to hear from orthodox Catholics.
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Holly3278
Guest
Ok, thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut tjm.
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JRKH
Guest
I will have to say that yes it is a sin.
Remember when Jesus said that any man who “Looks” at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery? He then went on to say that those who grow angry will be liable to judgement.
The point being that it isn’t just our acts that are sinful but the thought and intention behind and before the act that is sinful.
We are to Love God with all of our being. We are to Love our neighbor as ourselves, which means we are to Love ourselves as God Loves us. Placing ourselves in jeapordy is not Loving ourselves properly therefore we violate the Law of Love.
So If you are willfully putting yourself in the “near occasion” of sin when such could be avoided, then you are sinning.
Our every Thought and every Action should be for the Glory of God and the Advancement of the Kingdom. Placing ones self in near occasion is not doing that. Therefore it is contrary to The Law of Love and contrary to God.
Peace
James
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The_Otaku
Guest
I would ask a priest for a definite answer, considering that there are those who freely choose to engage in occasions of sin, and those who are addicted to occasions of sin (ie: someone struggling with drugs, alcohol, pornography, etc.) Is exposure to the occasion of sin lessened for these individuals in the same way mortal sin may be by being less culpable? This is something a priest would answer for you.
Putting yourself in a near occasion of sin (when you are perfectly able and fit to avoid) is serious, because you’re reducing your ability to withstand the temptation to go all the way in that sin or vice later. If it’s not already a habit or addiction, it very well could become one. If that kind of behavior or ‘pushing the envelope’ is done to see how much you can get away with before you are guilty or before you lose control, you’re flirting with disaster and “fondling the viper” as it goes.
Putting yourself in that kind of danger is irresponsible. Many people do it though, time and time again, and we never seem to learn our lesson. Talk to your priest.
Putting yourself in a near occasion of sin (when you are perfectly able and fit to avoid) is serious, because you’re reducing your ability to withstand the temptation to go all the way in that sin or vice later. If it’s not already a habit or addiction, it very well could become one. If that kind of behavior or ‘pushing the envelope’ is done to see how much you can get away with before you are guilty or before you lose control, you’re flirting with disaster and “fondling the viper” as it goes.
Putting yourself in that kind of danger is irresponsible. Many people do it though, time and time again, and we never seem to learn our lesson. Talk to your priest.
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Roman_Army
Guest
I would say that if you intentionally put yourself in a near occasion of sin, but do not commit any mortal sin, then it would only be a venial sin. The reason for that is because you took a risk of possibly committing a mortal sin that you knew you should not have taken. As the Lord said in today’s gospel, if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away, it is better for you to enter the kingdom of heaven with just one hand than to enter hell with two hands, etc. That Scripture applies to near occasions of sin. It is venially sinful to intentionally put oneself in a situation that can cause us to sin. This would merit temporal punishment either on earth or in purgatory. Now, if one committed the mortal sin, then the venial sin would merit extra eternal punishment added to that of the mortal sin in hell as St. Thomas Aquinas said in his Summa Theologica.
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Ron_Conte
Guest
Here is a good article on near (proximate) occasion of sin:
newadvent.org/cathen/11196a.htm
Is willfully putting yourself in a near occasion of sin a mortal sin, venial sin, or even a sin at all?
Some near occasions for venial sin are necessary. For example, if you know that going to work is a near occasion for the sin of getting angry at your boss, a venial sin, but you must go to work in order to support yourself and your family, then you can go into that near occasion of sin, willfully, and that choice is not a sin. You are still obligated to attempt to avoid all sin as best you can.
If a near occasion for venial sin is not necessary, you are obligated either to avoid that occasion, if you have no obligation to be in that circumstance because of the duties of your state of life, OR you are obligated to take other steps to avoid the sin. For example, you could go into the near occasion for venial sin, but first praying and perhaps also offering some acts of self-denial, to strengthen yourself against the sin. If we merely fled from all near occasions of venial sin, soon every circumstance would become such, and we would have to flee from so many occasions that we could not do God’s will in the world. Therefore, we are not obligated to avoid all near occasions for venial sin.
In my opinion, there is no necessary near occasion for mortal sin; in other words, there is no circumstance which is both unavoidable and in which mortal sin is likely. We always have the obligation to avoid any circumstance in which we are likely to commit a mortal sin. If a circumstances is unavoidable, we always have the grace from God to avoid that mortal sin. If the mortal sin seems likely in an unavoidable circumstance, it is only because of our own failure to practice prayer and self-denial.
Concerning near occasions for mortal sin that are avoidable, if you are likely to commit a mortal sin, you are obligated under pain of sin to avoid the near occasion. However, through prayer, self-denial, and works of mercy, a soul may be strengthened so that, after a period of time, that circumstance is no longer a near occasion for mortal sin.
If a person willfully enters a circumstance of near occasion for mortal sin, without necessity and without attempts through prayer and self-denial to make that circumstance no longer a near occasion for mortal sin, then he commits one sin by entering the occasion, and another sin if he does fall into the particular sin. If he enters the near occasion for mortal sin
In my opinion, the sin of entering a near occasion for mortal sin is itself a mortal sin when, with full knowledge and full deliberation, the person enters that near occasion of mortal sin without any attempts to avoid the sin itself through prayer and self-denial. If the person makes some attempt, while unwisely entering that near occasion of mortal sin, to avoid the sin itself, then the culpability (of choosing to enter the near occasion) is reduced in proportion to the efforts, perhaps even to the extent of being only a venial sin.
newadvent.org/cathen/11196a.htm
Is willfully putting yourself in a near occasion of sin a mortal sin, venial sin, or even a sin at all?
Some near occasions for venial sin are necessary. For example, if you know that going to work is a near occasion for the sin of getting angry at your boss, a venial sin, but you must go to work in order to support yourself and your family, then you can go into that near occasion of sin, willfully, and that choice is not a sin. You are still obligated to attempt to avoid all sin as best you can.
If a near occasion for venial sin is not necessary, you are obligated either to avoid that occasion, if you have no obligation to be in that circumstance because of the duties of your state of life, OR you are obligated to take other steps to avoid the sin. For example, you could go into the near occasion for venial sin, but first praying and perhaps also offering some acts of self-denial, to strengthen yourself against the sin. If we merely fled from all near occasions of venial sin, soon every circumstance would become such, and we would have to flee from so many occasions that we could not do God’s will in the world. Therefore, we are not obligated to avoid all near occasions for venial sin.
In my opinion, there is no necessary near occasion for mortal sin; in other words, there is no circumstance which is both unavoidable and in which mortal sin is likely. We always have the obligation to avoid any circumstance in which we are likely to commit a mortal sin. If a circumstances is unavoidable, we always have the grace from God to avoid that mortal sin. If the mortal sin seems likely in an unavoidable circumstance, it is only because of our own failure to practice prayer and self-denial.
Concerning near occasions for mortal sin that are avoidable, if you are likely to commit a mortal sin, you are obligated under pain of sin to avoid the near occasion. However, through prayer, self-denial, and works of mercy, a soul may be strengthened so that, after a period of time, that circumstance is no longer a near occasion for mortal sin.
If a person willfully enters a circumstance of near occasion for mortal sin, without necessity and without attempts through prayer and self-denial to make that circumstance no longer a near occasion for mortal sin, then he commits one sin by entering the occasion, and another sin if he does fall into the particular sin. If he enters the near occasion for mortal sin
In my opinion, the sin of entering a near occasion for mortal sin is itself a mortal sin when, with full knowledge and full deliberation, the person enters that near occasion of mortal sin without any attempts to avoid the sin itself through prayer and self-denial. If the person makes some attempt, while unwisely entering that near occasion of mortal sin, to avoid the sin itself, then the culpability (of choosing to enter the near occasion) is reduced in proportion to the efforts, perhaps even to the extent of being only a venial sin.
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mangy_dog
Guest
To me its like a reverse domino effect of the Sacrament of Confession.
How sincere would my Act of Contrition have been?
Where would my pupose of ammendment be?
Did my confession have a veiled intention?
Who am I kidding or fooling?
Am I hoping for absolution and then tempting the Lord my God?
It is some sort of sin, yes…however, whether it’s a mortal or venial sin is unknown to me.
What is known to me is that this would be a willing or inadvertant rejection of God’s grace given at Confession and Communion.
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Gerard_Nadal
Guest
What do we say about how we value our relationship with God if we would willfully jeopardize it by placing ourselves in a near occasion of sin? I don’t go to bars after work. I come home to my wife and children because I treasure their fellowship. I avoid losing fellowship and risking estrangement. Shouldn’t that be the guiding principle with our relationship to God?
:tiphat::tiphat::yup::yup:
:tiphat::tiphat::yup::yup:
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JRKH
Guest
This is well put. Thank you.
I will however share with you all a situation where the “near occasion” cannot be entirely avoided. It is an unusual case, but points up how we need to be aware of “intent” and to pray for God to be near and help us resist.
My Dear Wife has Alzheimers. Because of this, while she still loves me dearly and needs me close to her, she is mostly unaware that we are married. Each morning as we wake up we snuggle close together and hold each other. This might go on for an hour or more as we cuddle and snooze. We both need this time and this intimacy, but it has it’s hazzards for me as you might imagine. Several times over the last 2 years I have succumbed to the tempation of “self gratification”. Each time I have confessed and prayed for God’s forgiveness and mercy.
So - Here we have a situation where, the “near occsion” is difficult to avoid. We both desire and need that which is a healthy and acceptable and necessary intimacy in our married relationship. Sometimes that intimacy leads to arousal on my part. Normally not a problem in a marriage, problem for me in this particular instance.
Most often I have no great difficulty in resisitng the temptaion (if there is one). Occasionally I might fall (God forbid). But I must risk this for the health and well being of my dear wife.
In short I must place myself in a “near occasion” in order to do the Loving and Caring thing for my dear wife.
Pray for me that I continue to resist the tempation, and continue to take Good Loving care of my lady
Peace
James
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Gerard_Nadal
Guest
James,
These things tend to happen when we are lonely, tired, angry or distressed. I would tend to believe that a man who has been honorably married to a woman long enough to see her enter into Alzheimer’s, who stays with her and does not abandon her in pursuit of some floozies or endless golf, who snuggles her and is still overcome by ardent desire for union with her, is a man whose subjective guilt for this act of release is all but mitigated.
You do have my prayers, and my gratitude for the beautiful witness of your love and lives together. I just had my seventeenth wedding anniversary. I would like to have at least thirty more before God calls me home. And I would want to live those last years with the same degree of integrity that you have with your wife. Be good to yourself sir. You bear a heavy cross and you are doing so most honorably.
:knight1::knight2:
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JRKH
Guest
Thank you for your most understanding note. I was concerned that my testimony might be too personal, but also felt that, among adults, it could be understood.James,
These things tend to happen when we are lonely, tired, angry or distressed. I would tend to believe that a man who has been honorably married to a woman long enough to see her enter into Alzheimer’s, who stays with her and does not abandon her in pursuit of some floozies or endless golf, who snuggles her and is still overcome by ardent desire for union with her, is a man whose subjective guilt for this act of release is all but mitigated.
You do have my prayers, and my gratitude for the beautiful witness of your love and lives together. I just had my seventeenth wedding anniversary. I would like to have at least thirty more before God calls me home. And I would want to live those last years with the same degree of integrity that you have with your wife. Be good to yourself sir. You bear a heavy cross and you are doing so most honorably.
:knight1::knight2:
I am most wonderfully blessed, not only with a wonderful wife, fine parish and friends, but with the great support we receive from communites such as this one.
May you and your dear Wife celebrate many wonderful years together.
Peace
James
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BlaineTog
Guest
I would say that it depends on the situation. For example, let’s say you’re an alcoholic. Walking into a bar and sitting down, even if you don’t go in saying, “I’m going to drink,” would probably be a venial sin if you did it when you were alone and wanted to drink, because you are allowing yourself to be tempted most probably because you hope on some level that the temptation succeeds. However, if you see a friend who is also an alcoholic walk into a bar, it would not be a sin to go in after him and try to talk him out.
In other words, if you allow yourself to enter into a near occasion of sin because you want to give in to the temptation, it’s probably a venial sin, but if you enter into a situation that just happens to be a near occasion of sin (even if you know about it ahead of time) for other reasons, then it’s probably not, especially if you are entering in to the situation out of charity. To keep with the alcoholic example, it’s possibly not sinful to keep a half-bottle of whiskey in your desk to help keep yourself strong (since a total absence of temptation can make those rare instances of temptation much harder to resist), but I’d imagine this isn’t a particularly good idea for most alcoholics. Only God can know for sure, but if you look deep down and are truly honest with yourself the choice should be relatively clear.
In other words, if you allow yourself to enter into a near occasion of sin because you want to give in to the temptation, it’s probably a venial sin, but if you enter into a situation that just happens to be a near occasion of sin (even if you know about it ahead of time) for other reasons, then it’s probably not, especially if you are entering in to the situation out of charity. To keep with the alcoholic example, it’s possibly not sinful to keep a half-bottle of whiskey in your desk to help keep yourself strong (since a total absence of temptation can make those rare instances of temptation much harder to resist), but I’d imagine this isn’t a particularly good idea for most alcoholics. Only God can know for sure, but if you look deep down and are truly honest with yourself the choice should be relatively clear.
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Shin
Guest
With caution against scrupulosity…
Willfully putting yourself in a near occasion of sin is, as a general norm, simply interiorly, explicitly choosing to sin, because a near occasion of sin is when you will fall in the overwhelming percentage of the time. And so it too if the occasion is one of mortal sin, the choice to go is a mortal sin.
Now, you can be fooling yourself about this, and saying you won’t fall, or that it is necessary when it is not necessary (there are necessary occasions, but these are unavoidable due to circumstance), etc. and these can perhaps mitigate (or worse simply show intentional mortal ignorance) and so in the end you have to face the facts.
How to sort out your reactions and how they are more or less culpable depending on your attention span and intention I’ve read about in some books on the subject but do not have their exact locations in my mind at the moment. Some of it should be in ‘Theory and Practice of the Confessional’, others in St. Alphonsus’s works, and there’re some good sermons on how to parse the occasions of sin in the sermons below too. All together that covers it. So read and listen to those it is important.
If you know you fall in such occasions, to choose to enter them is to choose the sin.
Now, when it is unavoidable, i.e. necessary, you must make careful and complete preparation so that you will not sin when it occurs.
Prayer, thinking ahead as to what you will say or do, preparing yourself interiorly to react differently than you normally do, etc.
The solution to becoming someone who does not habitually commit grave sins is in a very large part, simply getting away from the occasions, instead of blindly just trying not to sin directly itself. Some occasions people are weak in, and are not going to be helped by God not to be weak in, or not unless they give up also the occasion.
You often have to sacrifice ‘good’ things to be given the grace to overcome such sins and show you truly care enough about God and against sin to be worthy of His grace lifting you out of it.
Willfully putting yourself in a near occasion of sin is, as a general norm, simply interiorly, explicitly choosing to sin, because a near occasion of sin is when you will fall in the overwhelming percentage of the time. And so it too if the occasion is one of mortal sin, the choice to go is a mortal sin.
Now, you can be fooling yourself about this, and saying you won’t fall, or that it is necessary when it is not necessary (there are necessary occasions, but these are unavoidable due to circumstance), etc. and these can perhaps mitigate (or worse simply show intentional mortal ignorance) and so in the end you have to face the facts.
How to sort out your reactions and how they are more or less culpable depending on your attention span and intention I’ve read about in some books on the subject but do not have their exact locations in my mind at the moment. Some of it should be in ‘Theory and Practice of the Confessional’, others in St. Alphonsus’s works, and there’re some good sermons on how to parse the occasions of sin in the sermons below too. All together that covers it. So read and listen to those it is important.
If you know you fall in such occasions, to choose to enter them is to choose the sin.
Now, when it is unavoidable, i.e. necessary, you must make careful and complete preparation so that you will not sin when it occurs.
Prayer, thinking ahead as to what you will say or do, preparing yourself interiorly to react differently than you normally do, etc.
The solution to becoming someone who does not habitually commit grave sins is in a very large part, simply getting away from the occasions, instead of blindly just trying not to sin directly itself. Some occasions people are weak in, and are not going to be helped by God not to be weak in, or not unless they give up also the occasion.
You often have to sacrifice ‘good’ things to be given the grace to overcome such sins and show you truly care enough about God and against sin to be worthy of His grace lifting you out of it.
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Shin
Guest
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otjm
Guest
Neither of those examples are near occasions of sin. They are sin.
No, you missed the point. the point is putting oneself in a position where sin could occur; not where it has occured.
Lusting after a woman is a sin. A near oocasion of sin, for some, might be going to a beach where one would find women in bathing suits, knowing that if one does, they will be tempted to lust after them.
So the question would be, is it legitimate to go to a beach?
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otjm
Guest
I am not sure that making love with your wife is any more self-gratification because she has Alzheimers than it would be if she didn’t. You might want to sit down and have a chat with a spiritual director.
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Bob4BVM
Guest
I agree, absolutely.
You have an unusual circumstance, but I see no sin in the intimate affection you still have for your dear wife. You were married under God. The marriage is still valid in His eyes.
How can you comprehend what her appreciation of close affection might be ?
Unless of course she were to make known her objections, which is another case entirely.
Talk to a priest, I think your worry borders on scrupulosity…
I thank you for taking care of her yourself , vs putting her in a nursing home-I know too many cases like that.
+Peace of Christ to you both.
Bob
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JRKH
Guest
If it were a situation where we could have intercourse that wuold be one thing, but she has no been comfortable with penetration for some time. Thus, intercourse is not an option.
This leaves “solo-sex” which is sinful regardless, and so I must resist this.
I appreciate your concern and thanks for the advise.
Peace
James
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