Is wine immoral?

[cheeto1]

I would agree that wine is not immoral, however Judges 13:3-4 implies that drinking may be immoral for pregnant women:

3An angel of the LORD appeared to the woman and said to her, “Though you are barren and have had no children, yet you will conceive and bear a son.
4 Now, then, be careful to take no wine or strong drink and to eat nothing unclean.”
Do you all think that this is in that one particular situation, or can be applied to all pregnant women in general???

Like most things, they are not sinful in themselves, but it’s how we use them…

Andy

There is a place in the Old Testament where one can choose to become a “Nazarite”, or set themselves apart to be holy. These people must not cut their hair or have “strong drink”.

But I see something happening that I do not like. It is this idea
that one is not friendly if they choose not to drink. I have seen
a man driven to drink excessively to prove he was friendly. Why
must alcohol be such an ingrained part of society that if
someone chooses not to drink, then something must be wrong
with them? Are protestants the only ones who will accept a
person who chooses not to drink for the sake of holiness?

 

[manualman]

Edwin,

Would drinking “good” must first make you less able to discern that you’ve been handed the “cheap stuff” after that?

The Cana servants imply that this is the usual practice and are surprised that the best is served later. Sounds like alcohol to me!

 

[stbruno]

Drinking to excess…getting drunk is immoral. Drinking wine is not…after all don’t we receive the Precious blood of Christ at Communion and that certainly is also wine.

 

[stbruno]

Where have you heard this? It may be true, since he is quite ascetic in many ways, but I’d be very surprised to hear of a Bavarian living in Italy who didn’t drink wine or beer!

Edwin

I read that Pope enjoys the vintage of beer & wine occasionally that the German and Bavarian Benedictans make themselves. In fact they gave him some for his 80th birthday, just recently. timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article1652552.ece
He will mark his birthday with a Mass at St Peter’s tomorrow and a lunch for cardinals on Monday, followed by a concert in his honour. Monsignor Engelbert Siebler, auxiliary bishop of Munich — the Pope’s former archdiocese — said that although the Pope drinks only the occasional glass of wine he would give him 80 bottles of Pope Benedict beer, made in Bavaria, complete with the steins to drink it from. “No doubt the papal entourage will enjoy it,” he said

 

[Contarini]

Edwin,

Would drinking “good” must first make you less able to discern that you’ve been handed the “cheap stuff” after that?

The Cana servants imply that this is the usual practice and are surprised that the best is served later. Sounds like alcohol to me!

Exactly. I agree entirely. However, at least one 19th-century author argued that what Jesus turned the water into was not the same as what the guests had been drinking, and that in fact His purpose was to show His power and “put an end to their drinking.”

I’m not saying this was not crazy, mind you!

Somewhat more plausibly, this same writer and others claimed that the Coptic Church traditionally squeezed the grapes right into the chalice for the Eucharist. Does anyone know anything about this?

Edwin

 

[Contarini]

I read that Pope enjoys the vintage of beer & wine occasionally that the German and Bavarian Benedictans make themselves. In fact they gave him some for his 80th birthday, just recently. timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article1652552.ece
He will mark his birthday with a Mass at St Peter’s tomorrow and a lunch for cardinals on Monday, followed by a concert in his honour. Monsignor Engelbert Siebler, auxiliary bishop of Munich — the Pope’s former archdiocese — said that although the Pope drinks only the occasional glass of wine he would give him 80 bottles of Pope Benedict beer, made in Bavaria, complete with the steins to drink it from. “No doubt the papal entourage will enjoy it,” he said

Pope Benedict beer! If I am ever again in a position where I can legitimately drink alcohol (my current place of employment requires me to abstain), I’ll definitely get some! I love Bavarian beer–in fact I was in a store yesterday where I saw some German beer sold, and it was one of the few moments when I’ve really regretted my university’s policy concerning alcohol!

Edwin

 

[Mintaka]

The Pope’s more a wine man than a beer one, and he doesn’t really partake a lot at any time (from what his old friends say). He’s been known to drink the half beer, half lemonade drink that Germans call a Bicyclist. His favorite beverage is allegedly orange pop, like Orangina. So maybe he just likes citrus…

As Fr. Z recently pointed out, St. John Chrysostom did a lot of preaching against drunkenness and overindulgence, and he was very abstemious himself. However, on one occasion he preached against people who said that wine was bad. In fact, he said that if you heard someone say that, you should punch him a good one right then and there, for saying bad things about God’s good gifts!

So it’s not wrong not to drink. That’s your choice entirely. And if people think you’re being unsociable, you just be very sociable at them while drinking non-alcoholic stuff, and tell them you don’t need any extra help! (Or tell them it’s just not to your taste, or you don’t feel like it.)

But it is wrong to tell other people that alcohol is bad. Alcohol needs to be respected and properly used, like any other of God’s good gifts. (And lying about Jesus and His people’s culture is just ridiculous in any flavor of Christian.)

 

[Cari]

The Pope’s been known to drink the half beer, half lemonade drink that Germans call a Bicyclist.

I’m SO glad I’m way past the nausea stage of pregnancy. That description (let alone the actual drink) would be enough to send me to the nearest bathroom!

 

[aboverubies]

The Pope’s more a wine man than a beer one, and he doesn’t really partake a lot at any time (from what his old friends say). He’s been known to drink the half beer, half lemonade drink that Germans call a Bicyclist. one right then and there, for saying bad things about God’s good gifts!

Here in Australia that drink is referred to as a “shandy” and is generally the drink of choice of elderly ladies and hence is thought of as a “girl’s drink.” It cracked me up to think of the Pope enjoying one.

 

[Greg27]

I think a well-formed conscience can judge this fairly straightforwardly. If you drink so much you can’t control your speech, you vomit and you can’t drive a car properly (and try to do so), it is fairly easy to see it is sinful. But, having a glass or more of wine at a special occasion to properly celebrate or dignify the occasion is not wrong, so long as the virtue of temperance is not let go of.