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Robert_Sock
Guest
What are your views on the accuracy of world history? My view is the it’s filled with lies and deception.
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sophion
Guest
not that its filled. there is much truth in world history, but there are also lies.
unfortunately the most effective lies are those with elements of truths in them.
fortunately history is mainly harmless.
you should only be alarmed when people tries to use it to control you.
as in cases of religion…
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MarcoPolo
Guest
What religion used history to try to control you?you should only be alarmed when people tries to use it to control you.
as in cases of religion…
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sophion
Guest
many religions like islam. but primarily catholicism…
what kind of control? telling people what to do…
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Kirk_O
Guest
Catholicism does not tell you how to live, it suggests how to live. If you follow Her teachings your life will be filled with hope and peace.
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minion
Guest
Ohhh yes. I can just flip on a Joan of Arc movie to see blatant lies under the guise of filmmaker “interpretation.”
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sophion
Guest
here is a famous abuse of history:
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The Donation of Constantine (Latin, Donatio Constantini) is a forged Roman imperial decree by which the emperor Constantine I supposedly transferred authority over Rome and the western part of the Roman Empire to the Pope. Composed probably in the 8th century, it was used, especially in the 13th century, in support of claims of political authority by the papacy.[1] Lorenzo Valla, an Italian Catholic priest and Renaissance humanist, is credited with first exposing the forgery with solid philological arguments in 1439–1440,[2] although the document’s authenticity had already been repeatedly contested since 1001*
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donation_of_Constantine
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The Donation of Constantine (Latin, Donatio Constantini) is a forged Roman imperial decree by which the emperor Constantine I supposedly transferred authority over Rome and the western part of the Roman Empire to the Pope. Composed probably in the 8th century, it was used, especially in the 13th century, in support of claims of political authority by the papacy.[1] Lorenzo Valla, an Italian Catholic priest and Renaissance humanist, is credited with first exposing the forgery with solid philological arguments in 1439–1440,[2] although the document’s authenticity had already been repeatedly contested since 1001*
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donation_of_Constantine
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minion
Guest
Here’s an another abuse in history that isn’t famous:
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The Black Legend** (Spanish: La leyenda negra) refers to a style of historical writing or propaganda that demonizes the Conquistadores and in particular the Spanish Empire in a politically motivated attempt to incite animosity against Spain. Anti-Spanish propaganda was started in the 16th century when Spain was at its height of political power, by propagandists from rival European powers, namely the Protestant countries of England and the Netherlands, as a means to morally disqualify the country and its people. The Black Legend particularly exaggerates the extent of the activities of the Inquisition, or the treatment of American indigenous subjects in the territories of the Spanish Empire, and non-Catholics such as Protestants and Jews in its European territories.
And another:
The myth of the Flat Earth is the modern misconception that the prevailing cosmological view during the Middle Ages saw the Earth as flat, instead of spherical.[1] The idea seems to have been widespread during the first half of the 20th century, so that the Members of the Historical Association in 1945 stated that:
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The Black Legend** (Spanish: La leyenda negra) refers to a style of historical writing or propaganda that demonizes the Conquistadores and in particular the Spanish Empire in a politically motivated attempt to incite animosity against Spain. Anti-Spanish propaganda was started in the 16th century when Spain was at its height of political power, by propagandists from rival European powers, namely the Protestant countries of England and the Netherlands, as a means to morally disqualify the country and its people. The Black Legend particularly exaggerates the extent of the activities of the Inquisition, or the treatment of American indigenous subjects in the territories of the Spanish Empire, and non-Catholics such as Protestants and Jews in its European territories.
And another:
The myth of the Flat Earth is the modern misconception that the prevailing cosmological view during the Middle Ages saw the Earth as flat, instead of spherical.[1] The idea seems to have been widespread during the first half of the 20th century, so that the Members of the Historical Association in 1945 stated that:
"The idea that educated men at the time of Columbus believed that the earth was flat, and that this belief was one of the obstacles to be overcome by Columbus before he could get his project sanctioned, remains one of the hardiest errors in teaching."
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Robert_Sock
Guest
Nowhere are these lies and deception more prevalent than with the view of a young earth and history of man for 6 thousand years. This theory is a part of Judaism, where it is believed that the whole of human history is but 6 thousand years.
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JerryZ
Guest
You should study History a little deeper instead of using wikipedia where anyone can go and write whatever they want.
The Church was forced to become the temporal government in Europe at least the Western part after the fall of Rome.
Left without rulers what do you think happened?
Soon society devolved into chaos, or the name “Dark Ages” was given because the sun did not shine enough?
Of course temporal power is not what the mission of the Church is, read the many documents that speak of this.
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sophion
Guest
the ends justifies the means huh
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Rolltide
Guest
Ok, so it’s originally made as a forgery. How many people after the eighth century, including church officials, genuinely believed it was a real document? Did church officials of the thirteenth century know that it was a forgery, or simply not investigate it and assume it was both genuine and fortuitous? It is interesting that it was also exposed by a church official. I work as a professional historian. We strive for truth as much as possible. However, we OFTEN do not have all the details. That’s where interpretation has to come in. Historians always have a bias, but a good historian will always make clear his bias, and defend his opinion through argument, evidence, and citing sources. Most inaccuracies in history are not so much due to lies, but due to a lack of information (or due to willful propaganda, which is NOT true history). For example, historians of the 1980s had a picture of the Soviet Union that was somewhat inaccurate because they did not have access to the internal documents and archives of the USSR that became available after the nation’s collapse in 1991. Historians made their best guess as to the history of events behind the Iron Curtain, although some of those assumptions proved incorrect. That does not mean there were lies or malice on the part of the writers of the history, although there was an attempt at hiding those facts by the USSR.
In short, there are many actors, events, and individuals within history that lie and deceive, but good history seeks to uncover the truth, even though honest mistakes will be made due to the sources available. Anything else is propaganda, but is not true history.
meltzerboy
New member
The vast majority of Jews, including Orthodox Jews, are NOT young-earth creationists. The theory of evolution is taught in many yeshivas.
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sophion
Guest
thats the thing with history. the older it gets the more people believe it.
which reminds me about the Shroud of Turin.
in both cases it was the scientific approached which disproved them.
now the scientific approach is beginning to disprove the bible. already its been declared that its not ‘historically accurate’.
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tabycat
Guest
History is written by the winners, not the losers.
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JerryZ
Guest
Sorry I don’t get it what ends and what means?the ends justifies the means huh
Rome fell because it’s leadership consisted mainly of corrupt and depraved people.
Homosexuality bestiality and all manner of disordered behaviour were rampant, this of course caused a decline in the military might and the tribes in the North of Europe saw an opportunity to overrun the Empire, Culminating with Attila the Hun.
It wasn’t until Charles Magne that a some sort of order was re established in the Empire or what was left of it.
That people become priests and abuse ther positions within the Church to commit grave sins is not something new. For humans are a fallen nature and no one is free from sin.
The Church however has been preserved as promised by Jesus.
He makes sure that even when imperfect people are in it they will not destroy Her, for She is His Bride.
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TimeEntrance
Guest
I hit somewhat agree. But I should have hit I strongly agree. The only thing that stopped me is that I think there are historical books with a fair amount of truth (of incidents, statements, or other things easily objectively identifiable - not that interpretations about these things are correct) in them and that there are historians that attempt to objectively and truthfully write about history even though we all have out own biases.
As a rule of thumb I think all nations tend to create myths around their identities. Brazilians traditionally like to think they have no national problem with racism but this is hardly very truthful or accurate.
Military branches tend to do the same thing. I remember I used to believe everything taught to us Marines about U.S. Marine Corps history when I was in the Corps but years later out of the Corps I found out not all that history was entirely accurate.
As a rule of thumb I think all nations tend to create myths around their identities. Brazilians traditionally like to think they have no national problem with racism but this is hardly very truthful or accurate.
Military branches tend to do the same thing. I remember I used to believe everything taught to us Marines about U.S. Marine Corps history when I was in the Corps but years later out of the Corps I found out not all that history was entirely accurate.
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latingirl
Guest
It is filled with alot of anti-catholic bias and twisting of facts.
and if you really want to complain about a religion that uses history to control people, don’t complain about Catholicism, complain about Protestantism.
and if you really want to complain about a religion that uses history to control people, don’t complain about Catholicism, complain about Protestantism.
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TimeEntrance
Guest
It’s science that provides evidence for the authenticity of the Shroud of Turin. I’m a believer in the authenticity of the Shroud of Turin. By faith (and reason) I believe it to be the burial cloth of Jesus. By reason alone I’ve concluded that a real man was wrapped in the cloth.thats the thing with history. the older it gets the more people believe it.
which reminds me about the Shroud of Turin.
in both cases it was the scientific approached which disproved them.
now the scientific approach is beginning to disprove the bible. already its been declared that its not ‘historically accurate’.
If the Shroud was a human person - not a cloth - with so much evidence pointing it’s innocence I doubt a jury in a court of law would convict it of forgery beyond a reasonable doubt.
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Robert_Sock
Guest
I believe that history is written by Satan, the biggest loser.History is written by the winners, not the losers.
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