Is www 666 in Hebrew?

[DaveBj]

Given how often the “666” reference has been used, twisted, and distorted by fundamentalists to “prove” that it referred to the pope, it’s a little strange to see it discussed in a Catholic forum. People have “found” it in the Celtic symbol on the cover of some Catholic Bibles, and in the logo of the US Postal Service. No contemporary, post-Nero reference can really be taken seriously.

…not to mention on receipt totals from McDonald’s

 

[doulos33]

Of course they could exist independently, on their own, but that would not be six hundred sixty-six.

Would the actual fulfillment of the prophecy really need to be so slavishly literal? O’Regan argues that the primary symbolic character of the number 666 lies in the threefold repetition of sixes. Each six represents a member of the unholy trinity - the false prophet, the beast and the dragon. Six is the number of imperfection and falls short of the divine number 7. It is also the number of man, since man was created on the sixth day. 666 apes the threefold repetition of sevens - 777, which represents the Holy Trinity. Another threefold repetition of numbers can be found in the numerical value of Christ’s name. When written in Greek the name Jesus Christ adds up to 888. 8 symbolises new life after creation, and Jewish children are circumcised on the eighth day to signify their new life in the covenant community.
So the threefold repetition of w in www may reflect the threefold repetition of sixes in the number 666.

 

[doulos33]

P.S. Several early mss. give the number as 616.

There are very few of these mss. The vast majority of the very earliest mss and best witnesses to the textus receptus give the number 666, and the scholarly concencus is that 616 is a later textual variant based on the gematric value of the name Gaius Caligula in Greek. The fact that Revelation later goes on to refer to the Nero redividus myth - “the beast who was, now is not, and is yet to come” makes it clear that the number of the beast refers to Nero - the first persecutor of Christians who foreshadows the final persecutor of Christians at the end-time.

 

[ryanoneil]

There are very few of these mss. The vast majority of the very earliest mss and best witnesses to the textus receptus give the number 666, and the scholarly concencus is that 616 is a later textual variant based on the gematric value of the name Gaius Caligula in Greek. The fact that Revelation later goes on to refer to the Nero redividus myth - “the beast who was, now is not, and is yet to come” makes it clear that the number of the beast refers to Nero - the first persecutor of Christians who foreshadows the final persecutor of Christians at the end-time.

The Latin value of Nero spells 616.

 

[DaveBj]

Would the actual fulfillment of the prophecy really need to be so slavishly literal? O’Regan argues that the primary symbolic character of the number 666 lies in the threefold repetition of sixes. Each six represents a member of the unholy trinity - the false prophet, the beast and the dragon. Six is the number of imperfection and falls short of the divine number 7. It is also the number of man, since man was created on the sixth day. 666 apes the threefold repetition of sevens - 777, which represents the Holy Trinity. Another threefold repetition of numbers can be found in the numerical value of Christ’s name. When written in Greek the name Jesus Christ adds up to 888. 8 symbolises new life after creation, and Jewish children are circumcised on the eighth day to signify their new life in the covenant community.
So the threefold repetition of w in www may reflect the threefold repetition of sixes in the number 666.

Literal, yes; if you want to append “slavish” to that, it’s your characterization. John makes it clear that the number is the number of the name of a man (Rev. 13:17-18). That’s the plain-sense meaning of the text, and the plain sense makes common sense, when we take into account, as has been noted, that Greek letters (and Hebrew letters, if it happens that John was thinking in Hebrew) were also used for numbers. One very good basic maxim of bible study is, “When the plain sense of Scripture make common sense, seek no other sense.”

 

[doulos33]

Literal, yes; if you want to append “slavish” to that, it’s your characterization. John makes it clear that the number is the number of the name of a man (Rev. 13:17-18). That’s the plain-sense meaning of the text, and the plain sense makes common sense, when we take into account, as has been noted, that Greek letters (and Hebrew letters, if it happens that John was thinking in Hebrew) were also used for numbers. One very good basic maxim of bible study is, “When the plain sense of Scripture make common sense, seek no other sense.”

Perhaps “slavish” is too harsh a word, it was not used to cause offence. There is no dispute that the number of the beast is the name of a man. That man was Nero, and whether the name of the Antichrist will also add up to 666 remains to be seen. Prophecy has several different layers of meaning, as is evident by multiple possible interpretations of the “abomination of desolation” described by Daniel and Jesus. The text of Revelation makes it clear that in addition to referring to the name of a man, the number of the beast would also appear on a worldwide system that would be necessary to use in order to engage in commerce: “Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead, so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name.” (Rev 13:16-17)
It is also clear from the text that the number of the beast is a riddle, it requires “sophia” (wisdom), and “nous” (understanding), i.e. it is a puzzle that requires thinking in abstract terms. We cannot take a literal approach to a puzzle, since deciphering conundrums requires lateral thought. The number 666 (which is found on the earliest mss. represented by the Greek numerals chi xi and digamma rather than in written form as it is in the current Novum Testamentum Graece: hexakosioi hexekonta hex) is literally six hundred and sixty-six, but it would have been quite transparently three sixes to anyone who spoke Greek or Aramaic. I will quote again the words of C.S Keener from his commentary: “Although the coincidence would not have been as obvious in ancient Mediterranean numeric systems as it is today, ancients using base ten would not miss the significance of the threefold repetition of sixes.” And it is as three sixes that the number of the beast has its primary symbolic importance for the author of the Apocalypse. G.K Beale, who is considered by many to be the world’s leading authority on the Book of Revelation states in his commentary: “the triple sixes are intended to be a contrast with the divine sevens throughout the book and signify incompletness and imperfection.” Three sixes in Hebrew are indisputably three w’s in the modern Latin alphabet. It all depends on the way you think of 666. When you think of this number or say it aloud is it “six hundred and sixty six”, or “six-six-six” that immediately comes to mind? This connection would have been quite clear to the apostle John, and since the number is meant to be a riddle, the first interpretation of the number 666 in lateral thought would be as three sixes.
If we as Christians are to believe that the words of this prophecy will one day come to pass
(which of course doesn’t apply if you don’t believe that this prophecy will ever take place), then surely there will never be another situation which will arise to fulfill these words even more exactly. Unless you think that a literal seven-headed monster will come from the sea and stamp 666 on everyone like some kind of demonic bouncer.

 

[Jon_in_Charlott]

Gematria Code Part 1.

There has been a lot of research on Gematria formulas.

One basic formula is to provide escalating values of the number 6 to the Alphabet. The letter A =6, Letter B = 12., Letter C = 18, etc… The supposed logic for using the number 6 is that it is less that 7 (A number assigned to God). Since humanity is less than God then the number 6 is used.

This is long, but, easy to read. I believe that it showcases the belief that opposing God, rebelling against God, or not trusting of believing in God is indentifiable to be evil.

Wisdom is needed here; one who understands can calculate the number of the beast, for it is a number that stands for a person. His number is six hundred and sixty-six. REV 13:18

Using a certain gematria value system can provide a sum of 666 to numerous objects and subjects. Are these objects and subjects actually evil or just randomly associated? If patterns are established is it enough proof? What about logic? You be the judge.

Using a gematria value system that assigns increasing values of 6 to each letter of the alphabet: A=6, B=12, C=18, etc… will provide the sum total of 666 to numerous words and combinations of words.

RESULTS

MARK OF BEAST
78+6+108+66+90+36+12+30+6+114+120=666

WITCHCRAFT
138+54+120+18+48+18+108+6+36+120=666

NECROMANCY
84+30+18+108+90+78+6+84+18+150=666

Interestingly, the symbol often associated with identifying evil (666 - Mark of the Beast) is revealed. Witchcraft and Necromancy have long been identified as being associated with evil.

TORNADOES
120+90+108+84+6+24+90+30+114=666

INSANITY
54+84+114+6+84++54+120+150=666

ABORTIVES
6+12+90+108+120+54+132+30+114=666

Each is destructive in their particular environment.

REVOLTS
108+30+132+90+72+120+114=666

REBELLIONS
108+30+12+30+72+72+54+90+84+114=666

OPPOSING
90+96+96+90+114+54+84+42=666

OUTLAWS
90+126+120+72+6+138+114=666

Each is combative against a force of authority. Could it be a moral authority -God or the Church?

TO SPLIT
120+90+114+96+72+54+120=666

TO DIVORCE
120+90+24+54+132+90+108+18+30=666

The objective of Satan is to separate man from God, to be an obstacle. These two actions promote separation and can be associated with Revolts and Rebellions.

SELF SERVE
114+30+72+36+114+30+108+132+30=666

EXCESSIVE
30+144+18+30+114+114+54+132+30=666

LUSTFUL
72+126+114+120+36+126+72=666

OPINIONS
90+96+54+84+54+90+84+114=666

PROUDLY
96+108+90+126+24+72+150=666

STUBBORN
114+120+126+12+12+90+108+84=666

Self serving actions from masturbation to abortion have been identified as sinful by certain religious sects. Excessive behavior is associated with the seven deadly sins. Lustful is a deadly sin. Opinions are self serving perceptions. Most of the above words can be linked to the deadly sin of Pride. These words can create division and lead to rebellion.

TO BE FEARFUL
120+90+12+30+36+30+6+108+36+126+72=666

ILLUSION
54+72+72+126+114+54+90+84=666

TRANSFIX
120+108+6+84+114+36+54+144=666

FASCINATION
36+6+114+18+54+84+6+120+54+90+84=666

A HYPNOTIC
6+48+150+96+84+90+120+54+18=666

Fear can affect perception and the choices individuals make to alleviate their fear (Fear was a catalyst to original sin - the fear of being without the knowledge of all that is good and evil). Illusion is a misleading perception of reality. To transfix is to hold an individual’s attention through fear, awe, or amazement. Each of the above words affects perception which can lead to forming opinions which could then lead to opposing an authority.

LIQUORS
72+54+102+126+90+108+114=666

CABLEVISION
18+6+12+72+30+132+54+114+54+90+84=666

COMMERCIALS
18+90+78+78+30+108+18+54+6+72+114=666

PICTURES
96+54+18+120+126+108+30+114=666

COMPUTER
18+90+78+96+126+120+30+108=666

Each of the above has the ability to control individual perception for a period of time. During that period of time perceptions can be altered. The altered perception could lead to rebelling against an authority. Pictures seems harmless, however, it is possible for individuals to become transfixed on an image of themselves (vanity) or another (lust or idolatry).

SENATORS
114+30+84+6+120+90+108+114=666

MEN OF SCIENCE
78+30+84+90+36+114+18+54+30+84+18+30=666

A CAPITALIST
6+18+6+96+54+120+6+72+54+114+120=666

Each of the above are influential persons… When their motives are self serving they can affect a large multitude of persons in sharing in their perception/opinion. Their perception/opinion, however, could be detrimental to the society as a whole. Senators battling over moral issues and Men of Science preaching against creationism are potential examples.

NEW YORK
84+30+138+150+90+108+66=666

VACCINATION
132+6+18+18+54+84+6+120+54+90+84=666

SANTA CLAUS
114+6+84+120+6+18+72+6+126=114=666

Each of the above are subject types that are not generally perceived as being evil, however, a minority group (religious conservatives) have expressed disdain for many of the attributes of each subject and how they affect the culture.

For example, Santa Claus is seen as loving, kind, and generous. And, for these reasons is extremely popular with young children. His image also resembles the qualities attributed to God. When the young person discovers that the person they loved, Santa, is not real, it can affect how they perceive God. Santa Claus also distracts from the true meaning of Christmas which can have a negative effect.

Is there any relation between Santa Claus and Witchcraft beyond each sharing the Mark of the Beast using the particular Gematria value system?

 

[Jon_in_Charlott]

Gematria Code part 2.

If Satan’s objective is to separate man from God (be an obstacle) wouldn’t he (or, could he) attempt to affect the perception of man? And, would those whose perceptions had been effectively altered to rebel against Church teaching and oppose in the belief of God, along with salvation through Jesus Christ, be on the side of Satan?

It compelled everyone-small and great alike, rich and poor, slave and citizen-to be branded on the right hand or on the forehead, and made it illegal for anyone to buy or sell anything unless he had been branded with the name of the beast or with the number of its name. REV 13:16-17

Scripture foretells of a time where every citizen would bear the Mark of the Beast. That humanity would doom itself by aligning itself with the enemy of God. By accepting the mark they would be rejecting God and Jesus, who was sent to save the world.

And, why was Jesus sent into the world? Because man cannot save themselves from their own sinful nature.

HUMANITY
48+126+78+6+84+54+120+150=666

Granted the system is simplistic, but, what it has produced appears to have logic.

Now, if that which leads to the opposition of God or to being outside of God’s law is evil then an argument can be made for many of the words listed above, including Computer, Santa Claus, Vaccinations, Cablevision and Pictures, that they are capable of leading persons to evil. To most of society it might seem implausible, due to the positive attributes that these words possess, that these subjects could be considered evil, but, satan is a master of the bait and switch.

SATAN’S DEEDS
114+6+120+6+84+114+24+30+30+24+114=666

Consider the following words in relation to Satan, his objective and that which has been expressed to represent evil in the study.

POISONER
96+90+54+114+90+84+30+108=666

CORRUPT
18+90+108+108+126+96+120=666

FIENDISHLY
36+54+30+84+24+54+114+48+72+150=666

DIABOLICAL PLAN
24+54+6+12+90+72+54+18+6+72+96+72+6+84=666

EVIL PLOT
30+132+54+72+96+72+90+120=666

WICKED TACTIC
138+54+18+66+30+24+120+6+18+120+54+18=666

This cluster appears to provide a pattern that could be associated with Satan’s efforts regarding the fall of man. The fact that Diabolical Plan, Evil Plot and Wicked Tactic have the same meaning shows a definite pattern. The mathematical odds that these three subjects that share the same definition would also share the same sum total using the gematria value system and that the sum total (666) would also identify their definitions would be an astronomical figure.

Is it possible that a simplistic gematria value system could identify that which is evil? With God all things are possible.

DISBELIEVES
24+54+114+12+30+72+54+30+132+30+114=666"… for nothing will be impossible for God."

 

[perro_sarnoso]

I am reading a new book on Catholic prophecy called Unveiling the Apocalypse by Emmett O’Regan which argues that the letters www is transliterated into Hebrew as six-six-six. The basic gist of the author’s arguement is that the writer of the Book of Revelation used a Hebrew form of numerology known as gematria in the passage of the Apocalypse concerning the number of the Beast. The sixth letter of the Hebrew alphabet is the letter waw, which in Hebrew numerals is used to represent the number 6. I was wondering what anyone else’s thoughts are on this?

Have you ever seen that power drink - “monster” with the three alleged claw marks?

They are actually in the same shape of the Hebrew letters/numerals. Many people wear hats, t-shirts and even tattoos.

 

[thistle]

The first three men on earth, according to Genesis, were Adam, Abel, and Cain.

The first three men on the moon were Armstrong, Aldrin and Collins.

**Coincidence? I DON’T THINK SO./**QUOTE]

Give me a break!!! It is total coincidence!!!

 

[DaveBj]

The first three men on earth, according to Genesis, were Adam, Abel, and Cain.

The first three men on the moon were Armstrong, Aldrin and Collins.

Coincidence? I DON’T THINK SO.

Umm, you need to check your history. Astronaut Michael Collins was never on the moon.

 

[doulos33]

The Latin value of Nero spells 616.

Yes you are quite right, this is accepted even above the Gauis Caligula hypothesis for an explaination of the 616 variant. But I’m sure you will agree that there are very few scholars out there who would argue that 616 is the original number of the beast, given that the vast majority of mss bearing witness to the earliest version of the text all have 666.

 

[doulos33]

A point no one seems to have made on this thread is that, as Catholics, we are protected from error on such matters in the Magesterium of the Catholic Church. We only need to accept this interpretation if it was defined as true by the teaching authority of the Church - as is pointed out by the author himself. This is the beauty of the Catholic faith, and the danger of Sola Scriptura. We need to look to the Church for guidance in such matters, as it is only through its infallible teachings aided by the gift of the Holy Spirit that it is possible to authentically interpret sacred Scripture. This being said, I would quite like for the Church to come out and either lay this hypothesis to rest, or to give some formal guidance as to what response Catholics need to take to this.

 

[ryanoneil]

Yes you are quite right, this is accepted even above the Gauis Caligula hypothesis for an explaination of the 616 variant. But I’m sure you will agree that there are very few scholars out there who would argue that 616 is the original number of the beast, given that the vast majority of mss bearing witness to the earliest version of the text all have 666.

I’d say the original 666.

 

[ryanoneil]

A point no one seems to have made on this thread is that, as Catholics, we are protected from error on such matters in the Magesterium of the Catholic Church. We only need to accept this interpretation if it was defined as true by the teaching authority of the Church - as is pointed out by the author himself. This is the beauty of the Catholic faith, and the danger of Sola Scriptura. We need to look to the Church for guidance in such matters, as it is only through its infallible teachings aided by the gift of the Holy Spirit that it is possible to authentically interpret sacred Scripture. This being said, I would quite like for the Church to come out and either lay this hypothesis to rest, or to give some formal guidance as to what response Catholics need to take to this.

616 vs. 666? Or something else?

 

[NHInsider]

A point no one seems to have made on this thread is that, as Catholics, we are protected from error on such matters in the Magesterium of the Catholic Church. We only need to accept this interpretation if it was defined as true by the teaching authority of the Church - as is pointed out by the author himself. This is the beauty of the Catholic faith, and the danger of Sola Scriptura. We need to look to the Church for guidance in such matters, as it is only through its infallible teachings aided by the gift of the Holy Spirit that it is possible to authentically interpret sacred Scripture. This being said, I would quite like for the Church to come out and either lay this hypothesis to rest, or to give some formal guidance as to what response Catholics need to take to this.

The Church can only teach definitively what has been revealed to Her by the Holy Spirit. In this case what is revealed is what Jesus explicitly taught - that NO MAN knows the day or the time, and that we are therefore to be ALWAYS ready, expectant and alert - not in fear but in hope (Luke 21:28).

In the context of the epic that is John’s Apocalypse, the “mark of the beast” is a counterfeit of baptism (in contrast to the “mark” of the servants of God in 7:3), indicating submission to the counterfeit trinity of the dragon, beast and false prophet and allegiance with the counterfeit church (the whore). As such there is no more reason to expect a literal mark than there is to expect a literal dragon.

The vast majority of verses of Scripture have not been “officially interpreted” by the Church, no reason to expect that these would be. The Church has, however, repeatedly and definitively (see, among other documents, Dei Verbum), pointed out that the words of Scripture must be understood in the context and genre in which they were written - which in the case of the book we now call Revelation, was that of an Apocalypse, with all kinds of symbolic language and fantastic description that was never intended to be read literally.

you may find it helpful to check out the links suggested here.

 

[wiggbuggie]

nero has a value of 666 and buy yourself a copy of the mass as heaven on earth by dr scott hahn which he explores the book of revalation, revalation is really about the divine liturgy and Jesus and heaven is already here. Great book i would recommend it:thumbsup:

 

[doulos33]

The author who advances this hypothesis in his book Unveiling the Apocalypse has started a new blog here, if anyone is interested…