Is Yeshua the Mashiach?

[Randy_Carson]

Less than one year of prayer for the deceased by their family because one would not wish to entertain the idea that any family member might be so evil so as to require one full year of prayer in purgatory (Gehinnom). However, those who are really so evil may actually have their soul annihilated according to Jewish teaching (by some).

Eternal punishment may also consist of separation from G-d, but not physical torment. The truth of the matter, according to Judaism, is that we really don’t know much about the afterlife since the Torah does not give us much information, and so numerous hypotheses have evolved. The focus of Judaism is on the present life.

Wow. I wish the Jewish woman who said otherwise in another thread could hear this.

BTW - is it acceptable for me, a Gentile, to refer to you as a Jew and her as a Jewess?

I know words have meanings and can be loaded with connotations, so I do not wish to offend in my posts due to ignorance. Thanks.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Yes, Jesus would appear to show a phenomenal ability to fulfil (supposed) ‘prophesies’ that involve text-mining and interpretation/reinterpretation

And he managed to do it without Google?

Interesting.

 

[Marie5890]

Kaninchen and Melterboy,

I’m finding it very educational to read your posts on what various OT verses mean to Jews as oppose to what the mean to Christians.

Are there any books or other educational materials out there that you would recommend for those of us Christians who would love to educate themselves further on these differences?

Thanks

 

[Randy_Carson]

Kaninchen and Melterboy,

I’m finding it very educational to read your posts on what various OT verses mean to Jews as oppose to what the mean to Christians.

Are there any books or other educational materials out there that you would recommend for those of us Christians who would love to educate themselves further on these differences?

Thanks

Marie-

You might consider The Crucified Rabbi by Taylor Marshall as a starting point.

 

[Marie5890]

Marie-

You might consider The Crucified Rabbi by Taylor Marshall as a starting point.

Thanks for the recommend, Randy, but I am wanting the Jewish view, not the Catholic.

I know the Catholic view.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Thanks for the recommend, Randy, but I am wanting the Jewish view, not the Catholic.

I know the Catholic view.

Yeah, I know. Just thought I’d try…

 

[Kaninchen]

Kaninchen and Melterboy,

I’m finding it very educational to read your posts on what various OT verses mean to Jews as oppose to what the mean to Christians.

Are there any books or other educational materials out there that you would recommend for those of us Christians who would love to educate themselves further on these differences?

Thanks

Hm, I seem to remember that somebody called Michael Drazin wrote a fairly lengthy internet publication called ‘Their Hollow Inheritance’ which looked at an awful lot of verses and their meaning within the Jewish and Christian contexts but the tone was one of somebody very severely miffed about Christian missionaries.

You have to remember that most of us come up against the way Jewish texts are used by Christians as and when they’re brought up and tend to look up responses ‘as and when’. The trouble is that you tend to end up with what us Brits might call a ‘Pantomime debate’ of “Oh, yes it is!/Oh, no it isn’t!”

 

[Kaninchen]

And he managed to do it without Google?

Interesting.

But was that a predictable response?

 

[Marie5890]

Hm, I seem to remember that somebody called Michael Drazin wrote a fairly lengthy internet publication called ‘Their Hollow Inheritance’ which looked at an awful lot of verses and their meaning within the Jewish and Christian contexts but the tone was one of somebody very severely miffed about Christian missionaries.

You have to remember that most of us come up against the way Jewish texts are used by Christians as and when they’re brought up and tend to look up responses ‘as and when’. The trouble is that you tend to end up with what us Brits might call a ‘Pantomime debate’ of “Oh, yes it is!/Oh, no it isn’t!”

I will keep that all in mind.
I just want to know more than just the Christian prism view of scripture.

 

[meltzerboy]

I wonder if God is able to work on multiple levels? Could it be that the suffering servant imagery applies to both Israel and Jesus? That Israel was a *type *of Christ?

Israel is a type of Christ in that it is believed that Judaism is a priestly people whose mission is to carry the light of Torah to the world. So, from this perspective, it is possible there are multi-layered interpretations of Isaiah. However, the idea of Israel as the suffering servant fits better according to the way Judaism envisions the destiny of Israel and the other nations in the Messianic era.

 

[meltzerboy]

Wow. I wish the Jewish woman who said otherwise in another thread could hear this.

BTW - is it acceptable for me, a Gentile, to refer to you as a Jew and her as a Jewess?

I know words have meanings and can be loaded with connotations, so I do not wish to offend in my posts due to ignorance. Thanks.

The term “Jewess” may often be viewed as pejorative although not by Kaninchen, for example. Even calling someone a “Jew,” rather than “Jewish,” may have a negative ring depending on one’s intent.

 

[meltzerboy]

I will keep that all in mind.
I just want to know more than just the Christian prism view of scripture.

I concur with Kaninchen on this, Marie. My knowledge on the subject matter has been acquired in bits and pieces from various sources, most of which I don’t remember.

 

[Kaninchen]

The term “Jewess” may often be viewed as pejorative although not by Kaninchen, for example. Even calling someone a “Jew,” rather than “Jewish,” may have a negative ring depending on one’s intent.

I added the Jewess because, despite Miffy (the rabbit in a dress in my signature), I seemed to suffer the fate of all posters who don’t use a girl’s name as a screen name, the universal ‘he’.

 

[504Katrin]

Wow. I wish the Jewish woman who said otherwise in another thread could hear this.

:hey_bud:

 

[Randy_Carson]

But was that a predictable response?

Your cynicism keeps you well protected, Kaninchen. I can understand why you nurture it.

 

[Randy_Carson]

The term “Jewess” may often be viewed as pejorative although not by Kaninchen, for example. Even calling someone a “Jew,” rather than “Jewish,” may have a negative ring depending on one’s intent.

Yes, this was EXACTLY my first thought, and Kaninchen was who I had in mind.

What is the correct way for me to reference a male or female of the Jewish faith?

 

[504Katrin]

Wow. I wish the Jewish woman who said otherwise in another thread could hear this.

BTW - is it acceptable for me, a Gentile, to refer to you as a Jew and her as a Jewess?

I know words have meanings and can be loaded with connotations, so I do not wish to offend in my posts due to ignorance. Thanks.

There’s a concept of being “cut off” from gd, if you turn your back totally on Torah. There’re several opinions on this. I agree with the concept that, since the moment we decided to leave Egypt, the Jewish people, no matter how often we mess up, can never surcome to the fiftiest level of impurity again (which means losing your Jewish soul). I’ve also learned that, if you weren’t Torah observant enough, you will come back and get another chance to be more Torah observant.

 

[Kaninchen]

Your cynicism keeps you well protected, Kaninchen. I can understand why you nurture it.

That is something I rather doubt - I think I may need to be somewhat less British with you, however.

 

[andrewstx]

Is who the what?

Sorry, but for me Messianic ‘Jews’ just plain do not exist and I think they should make up their minds as to which religion they want to follow. I think they are far too different to be both at once.

Just throwing a couple of Hebrew words around makes no one Jewish.

If a male wants to be Jewish he must give up Christianity, have a minor surgery, and go to the Mikvah to convert.

I think “Messianic Judaism” is just one more pop-fad trends in Evangelical Christianity. will thrive a few years and then disappear as fads do.

 

[meltzerboy]

Is who the what?

Sorry, but for me Messianic ‘Jews’ just plain do not exist and I think they should make up their minds as to which religion they want to follow. I think they are far too different to be both at once.

Just throwing a couple of Hebrew words around makes no one Jewish.

If a male wants to be Jewish he must give up Christianity, have a minor surgery, and go to the Mikvah to convert.

I think “Messianic Judaism” is just one more pop-fad trends in Evangelical Christianity. will thrive a few years and then disappear as fads do.

I think there are different kinds of Messianic Jews. Some of them are Protestant Evangelicals who consider themselves Christian but believe in following Jewish practices, while others are Jewish by origin, consider themselves Jewish, but also accept Jesus as the Messiah and G-d. Hebrew Catholics, I believe, are apart from both of these. Then there are also the Nazarene Jews, who regard themselves as Jewish, and accept Jesus as the Messiah but not as G-d.